All things Pegula 1

[Sabre Dance]

I wonder if anyone will show up to the Arena with a Ban Pegulas shirt.

Let's not be ridiculous. Can anyone honestly tell me that the Pegulas haven't tried to win? The Pegula bashing is a little pathetic. Criticize their hirings but this type of thing is uncalled for.

They have tried to bring a winner to Buffalo and failed. They will keep trying, hopefully not keep failing.

The Jacobs family was hated in Boston for a while. Then they helped build a dynasty.

 

[Zach716]

Let's not be ridiculous. Can anyone honestly tell me that the Pegulas haven't tried to win? The Pegula bashing is a little pathetic. Criticize their hirings but this type of thing is uncalled for.

They have tried to bring a winner to Buffalo and failed. They will keep trying, hopefully not keep failing.

The Jacobs family was hated in Boston for a while. Then they helped build a dynasty.

Found Kim’s alt

 

[Sabre Dance]

Found Kim’s alt

No its just dumb. They spend to the cap. I mean they signed the #1 UFA again this offseason. They spend. They're the reason the NHL combine is in Buffalo. They have done good things.

They haven't gotten the management part right. Murray and Botterill were on everyone's top GM candidate lists. We'll see how Adams does. Obviously they're struggling to win, but there isn't a lack of trying to win.

 

[sabremike]

Let's not be ridiculous. Can anyone honestly tell me that the Pegulas haven't tried to win? The Pegula bashing is a little pathetic. Criticize their hirings but this type of thing is uncalled for.

They have tried to bring a winner to Buffalo and failed. They will keep trying, hopefully not keep failing.

The Jacobs family was hated in Boston for a while. Then they helped build a dynasty.

They are the worst most incompetent failures as owners in modern NHL history and are so stupid and arrogant that they refuse to acknowledge this fact and change. The "We want players who want to be here" messaging they are having their unqualified stooge of a GM get out to smear players sick of this garbage dump of an organization to make them heels to fans instead of recognizing that THEY are the problem is a perfect example of this.

 

[Sabre Dance]

They are the worst most incompetent failures as owners in modern NHL history and are so stupid and arrogant that they refuse to acknowledge this fact and change. The "We want players who want to be here" messaging they are having their unqualified stooge of a GM get out to smear players sick of this garbage dump of an organization to make them heels to fans instead of recognizing that THEY are the problem is a perfect example of this.

Do they try to win? Do they spend?

They obviously don't know what they're doing but don't you believe at some point they will get it right the way they spend? They are the problem, but they are also the solution.

Calling them names for losing is a bit far. The fans put their hard earned money into the team and have gotten nothing in return. But guess what, the Pegulas have done the same.

One thing we forget to mention about Golisano was he had a young Ruff and Regier in place. When the Pegulas took over the fans and media were running Ruff and Regier out of town. I still remember how shocked Terry Pegula was at the very first media gathering and they all had their pitchforks out for Ruff and Regier.

We were part of the problem. Fans and media won't accept that.

 

[Zach716]

Do they try to win? Do they spend?

They obviously don't know what they're doing but don't you believe at some point they will get it right the way they spend? They are the problem, but they are also the solution.

Calling them names for losing is a bit far. The fans put their hard earned money into the team and have gotten nothing in return. But guess what, the Pegulas have done the same.

One thing we forget to mention about Golisano was he had a young Ruff and Regier in place. When the Pegulas took over the fans and media were running Ruff and Regier out of town. I still remember how shocked Terry Pegula was at the very first media gathering and they all had their pitchforks out for Ruff and Regier.

We were part of the problem. Fans and media won't accept that.

They know oil and made a lot of money. They don’t know football so they put football people in charge to take the reigns. They think they know hockey and treat it as their own NHL video game be a gm mode, unsuccessfully. There is no A for effort sympathy after sucking up the energy of a once proud fan base for a decade.

On the miniseries the Sabres posted behind the scenes last year Terry really said that if we get Hall we’re going for the cup. The guy doesn’t have a clue. I don’t know how you could try defending them at this point. What’s the difference between a cheap owner like Melnyk who trades his stars because he doesn’t want to pay them and incompetent owners like the Pegulas? Answer: a few points every year at the bottom of the standings.

 

[Sabre Dance]

They know oil and made a lot of money. They don’t know football so they put football people in charge to take the reigns. They think they know hockey and treat it as their own NHL video game be a gm mode, unsuccessfully. There is no A for effort sympathy after sucking up the energy of a once proud fan base for a decade.

On the miniseries the Sabres posted behind the scenes last year Terry really said that if we get Hall we’re going for the cup. The guy doesn’t have a clue. I don’t know how you could try defending them at this point. What’s the difference between a cheap owner like Melnyk who trades his stars because he doesn’t want to pay them and incompetent owners like the Pegulas? Answer: a few points every year at the bottom of the standings.

I'm not defending their record. There is no defense.

When you lose you're incompetent, I get it. They hired Rex Ryan! They kept Doug Whaley after hiring Sean McDermott. Everyone knew Whaley was gone. It was so awkward. They had no idea what they were doing in the NFL either. They got it right without knowing what they were doing. Kim Pegula is the President of the Bills. She is the boss. It's no different than the Sabres.

I understand the anger but they're not doing anything differently with the Bills. I've heard multiple people talk about the Taylor Hall cup comment. Doug Whaley said Terry Pegula wanted Patrick Mahomes in the draft. He's a fan owner. This is what he does. However he doesn't demand GM's do what he wants in terms of roster moves. We didn't draft Mahomes. McDermott stuck to his plan, he felt they were a year away from drafting a QB. I've never heard any type of rumor that states the Pegulas meddle in roster moves. Maybe I just missed it. If it's out there please provide it.

They just have to find the right leadership group that has the right plan. They probably had it in Tim Murray but we ran him out of town because we wanted Bylsma gone. Fans love running people out of town. I'm guilty, I wanted Bylsma gone.

This is how I see it, they will strike oil in the NHL at some point like they did with the Bills. Once that happens the Sabres will become a consistently good organization. Remember Ralph? When the Bills were good he was still running off GM's which eventually killed the franchise. That won't happen under the Pegulas. They just have to find the right people first.

Good owners to me are owners that give their management team every resource to succeed. I've yet to see any reason to believe they don't.

 

[TehDoak]

I've never heard any type of rumor that states the Pegulas meddle in roster moves. Maybe I just missed it. If it's out there please provide it.

No GM is going to say "The owner made me do this", at least not in public. That being said, I think most of the 'bad' moves over the years tend of have 'impatient billionaire fan'

And before I start down this list, I think it IS fair to point out that the Pegula's HAVE spent more money on the Sabres than any previous owner and the team is almost up near the cap.

Ville Leino - The deal was so far out of left field and for so MUCH over his market given his career, it was really out of character for the GM (Regier). The plan at the time was obviously for Richards when they were told not to waste their time. Billionaire who wants to make a splash just was spurned by the top player on the market? That was 100% a move that was the owner telling the GM 'get it done'

Now, the Murray-era moves, it's harder to discern where Murray's ego ended and the Pegula's began. The Kane move was a pretty nuts trade, at the time and in hindsight, but it was also Murray's MO to just go and overpay for pieces he wanted.

In the J-Botts era, the RoR trade seemed like it may have suffered from some owner interference. One of two things happened: Jason Botterill was really bad at his job and ran out of time to make the deal before the owners deadline of 7/1 so they didn't have to pay the bonus OR the owners changed their mind about paying the bonus late into the game and forced the GM to struggle to find a fit. Given that the Sabres had to take back salary to match RoR's contract AND the Blues signed a center UFA on 7/1, it really feels like the Pegula's told GMJB they weren't paying the bonus on a player that wasn't going to be there and to get a deal done.

The Skinner deal also screams of a 'Get it done' mandate from the ownership. There was pretty much no 'negotiation' from the Skinner group. Full NMC+ Full Term + overmarket salary? That's a team taken hostage by the player and agent.

And then comes the Adams era. This was a pure ego move by the Pegula's. The Pegula's obviously don't feel that running a hockey team is that difficult. Going back and look at the refusal of bringing in any sort of senior adviser or team president, they feel they can 'handle it'. The last straw for me was the Botterill firing. Now, I was in favor of the GMJB Firing. He did a terrible job. But the vote of confidence in GMJB, then the axing him followed by purging of a good portion of the front office, not to replace them, but to cut overhead. And to put a loyalist with zero NHL/AHL/NCAA/OHL/WHL/QMJHL/ECHL/UHL/SEL/KHL front office experience in charge of running both the AHL and NHL teams? Jesus. And to CONTINUE to let him run the draft/UFA period with a coach who also has zero front office experience (in hockey anyways) and see the result (dead last finish) and to CONTINUE on with that front office structure? The big hire being adding 1 AGM who was only able to get into hockey management because he was the owners son?

The Pegula's clearly have influence over player moves and only hire people who LET THEM keep that influence. I think on the Bills side of thing, Beane and McDermott know how to manage the Pegula's a bit and make them feel like they have a voice in the process even if they do pretty much what they want. On the Sabres side of things, it certainly feels like the Pegula's exert their will on the front office. And it's really impossible to say they don't because these same non sensical, left field moves have happened across 4 different GMs while the Pegula's were owners. They are the only common thread.

I'm very grateful to the Pegula's for spending on the team while losing money. But I'm furious at them for not seeing the obvious problem is their decision making and interference are the problem with the Sabres.

 

[May Day 10]

I recall during the PC when Pegula fired Murray. He said something along the lines of that his biggest regret was ceding control... and that was something he would never do again.

That stuck with me and ever since then, the Sabres have been dragged deeper into hell. The Murray/Byslma seasons seem like a golden age at this point.



Its a tricky thing criticizing the Pegulas. I agree 100% that they want to win, and have provided resources in the past (although Kruger or someone seems to have sold them on some sort of lean/un-staffed approach to a front office)
The problem is, they have had control of this thing from the beginning other than a short period of time which also had some sort of strange resignation and subsequent alienation of one of the most beloved Sabres of all-time. There have been nothing but terrible moves and some sort of shroud of depression that overcomes anybody, player or otherwise, who comes into contact with the Buffalo Sabres. We have a GM who's experience is that he was a journeyman player, lives in Buffalo, and ran a youth hockey program. His biggest plusses are that he hasnt had a chance to bury the organization even further (so lets wait and see what he can do, you cant fire the General Manager every few years!), and he keeps the 'lines of communication' open (AKA the Pegulas run the show)

Im going to go crazy the next time I hear about how the GM has to fly to Florida to meet with the Pegulas to plan what to do next.

This franchise is so similar to the Bills circa 2000s. The inner circle of trust is preserved at all costs, and decisions and team performance are based off preserving ownership control (as Wilson/Brandon/Littman had control over all the fake GMs like Levy, Nix, and Whaley). Nobody worth anything will come here to work under that, and it becomes a no-fly-zone for players.... and people assume its just "Buffalo" and not a rotten organization.

What needs to happen is a complete re-branding of this thing, especially on the hockey side with a President with credibility and credentials. Davidson would have been perfect. He would require some cash, and also the Pegulas would need to give him full autonomy to build from the top down and restore this thing to a pro-grade outfit.

 

[Sabre Dance]

The Pegula's clearly have influence over player moves and only hire people who LET THEM keep that influence. I think on the Bills side of thing, Beane and McDermott know how to manage the Pegula's a bit and make them feel like they have a voice in the process even if they do pretty much what they want. On the Sabres side of things, it certainly feels like the Pegula's exert their will on the front office. And it's really impossible to say they don't because these same non sensical, left field moves have happened across 4 different GMs while the Pegula's were owners. They are the only common thread.

I don't understand where this is coming from. Financially, yes they have control over player spending. They aren't writing up contracts. They aren't making trades. I'm sure they give their input. St Louis GM said Botterill wanted Tage over other prospects. You think Terry Pegula knew who Tage Thompson was?

Saying they don't know what they're doing is one thing, but saying they only hire people that they can control is ridiculous to me.

You think they controlled Ralph Krueger? Phil Housley? These people weren't coming here to be controlled.

The Pegulas are chasing their tails right now when it comes to the Sabres. Yes, impatience is a problem. But hiring the wrong coaches is the biggest problem. How long have we been asking for an experienced head coach? We got Bylsma. They have to start hiring people that have been around the block. It's not about control.

I haven't exactly hated the talent in Buffalo since 2015. Goalie recently has been bad, but I've always felt they could make the playoffs. That's probably where the frustration comes.

Hire better coaches!

 

[May Day 10]

how about when they decided to fund Karin Housley's Senate campaign? That puts everyone in a bad spot. What is a GM to do there? Can he do anything? What would Lou Lamoriello or any self-respecting GM do if ownership was wining and dining the head coach and getting involved personally like that?

can they just go away and not do stupid things?

 

[SackTastic]

No its just dumb. They spend to the cap. I mean they signed the #1 UFA again this offseason. They spend. They're the reason the NHL combine is in Buffalo. They have done good things.

They haven't gotten the management part right. Murray and Botterill were on everyone's top GM candidate lists. We'll see how Adams does. Obviously they're struggling to win, but there isn't a lack of trying to win.

Throwing money works at solving SOME problems, but not ALL problems.

Let's also not build a statue for them spending after they have spent much of the last few years of their ownership cutting as much s possible in team staffing.

 

[Gabrielor]

Let's not be ridiculous. Can anyone honestly tell me that the Pegulas haven't tried to win? The Pegula bashing is a little pathetic. Criticize their hirings but this type of thing is uncalled for.

They have tried to bring a winner to Buffalo and failed. They will keep trying, hopefully not keep failing.

The Jacobs family was hated in Boston for a while. Then they helped build a dynasty.

They're going to keep failing as long as they keep hiring the wrong people.

Rob Ray WGR quote, this morning: "I was talking to Bogosian in [either 17-18 or 18-19], and he said: 'Is it bad that I'm a veteran, it's January, and I don't know what I'm doing in the defensive zone?'"

Bogosian has looked fine with Toronto and Tampa Bay. It's not him, it's us.

The Pegulas don't recognize idiots fast enough, and because of Jason Botterill (many qualifications, but still a rookie GM; also a moron), they decided their next GM should also be a rookie, but let's skip the qualifications too.

They didn't figure out Murray wasn't the guy past the tank fast enough. They didn't figure out Bylsma was an asshole fast enough. They didn't figure out Housley and Krueger were inept coaches fast enough. They didn't figure out Botterill was the worst GM of the decade fast enough.

Now Adams is paying for the entire debt that the Pegulas allowed to build.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

I don't understand where this is coming from. Financially, yes they have control over player spending. They aren't writing up contracts. They aren't making trades. I'm sure they give their input. St Louis GM said Botterill wanted Tage over other prospects. You think Terry Pegula knew who Tage Thompson was?

Saying they don't know what they're doing is one thing, but saying they only hire people that they can control is ridiculous to me.

O'Reilly was traded a day before he was due a $7.5 M bonus and you don't think ownership was somehow involved. LOL. Botterill had a gun to his head and had to go back to Blues and make a deal ASAP. Thompson was their third best prospect. There is no way Robert Thomas was not ahead of him. He got robbed on the deal because Pegulas put him in that spot and he was too junior to tell his bosses off or work the league given the deadline.

 

[TehDoak]

They're going to keep failing as long as they keep hiring the wrong people.

Rob Ray WGR quote, this morning: "I was talking to Bogosian in [either 17-18 or 18-19], and he said: 'Is it bad that I'm a veteran, it's January, and I don't know what I'm doing in the defensive zone?'"

Bogosian has looked fine with Toronto and Tampa Bay. It's not him, it's us.

The Pegulas don't recognize idiots fast enough, and because of Jason Botterill (many qualifications, but still a rookie GM; also a moron), they decided their next GM should also be a rookie, but let's skip the qualifications too.

They didn't figure out Murray wasn't the guy past the tank fast enough. They didn't figure out Bylsma was an asshole fast enough. They didn't figure out Housley and Krueger were inept coaches fast enough. They didn't figure out Botterill was the worst GM of the decade fast enough.

Now Adams is paying for the entire debt that the Pegulas allowed to build.

Can I point out, once again, in probably the most important point of the Sabres since the 2015 draft, we have, not a rookie GM, but a GM with absolutely zero experience other than taking a bad team to absolute last place, likely in charge of:

-Trading a franchise center who is angry at the franchise in Eichel
-Trading a top line forward in Reinhart
-Managing the expansion draft (though, this is easier for Adams because the roster is terrible)
- drafting top 3 + 4 picks (maybe more) in rounds 2 and 3.
- Hiring a new coach
- Filling out the rest of the front office (if he's even allowed to)
- Trying to turn a last place team into a playoff team

If we f*** up this summer, we might not see a playoff team till 2030. It's that important. Yet here we are, with Keyvn from Accounting. Let's see how deep this abyss goes.

 

[Buffaloed]

Terry Pegula's default mentality is do whatever takes regardless of cost or consequences. It works in the petroleum industry because there is n0 CBA or salary cap. The employees aren't comparable to players and most of the value is in fixed assets. You can overpay and waste assets and still come out ahead. Terry showed his willingness to overpay when he bought the Sabres and Bills. But when it comes to operating a franchise that strategy will fail. McDermott and Beane have managed to tame his inner Pegula with the Bills. Can Kevyn Adams do the same for the Sabres? A good sign was they didn't give Taylor Hall a long term contract.

 

[sabremike]

Finally found someone as completely unqualified for their job as Kevyn Adams:

 

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Finally found someone as completely unqualified for their job as Kevyn Adams:

View attachment 446108

As a Japanese Canadian I am sad to admit this isn't rare in my country.
We still love our fax machines and pressing stamps.

Want to telework? Come to office to sign a million documents to agree to teleworking!

 

[sabremike]

As a Japanese Canadian I am sad to admit this isn't rare in my country.
We still love our fax machines and pressing stamps.

Want to telework? Come to office to sign a million documents to agree to teleworking!

 

[SackTastic]

Terry Pegula's default mentality is do whatever takes regardless of cost or consequences. It works in the petroleum industry because there is n0 CBA or salary cap. The employees aren't comparable to players and most of the value is in fixed assets. You can overpay and waste assets and still come out ahead. Terry showed his willingness to overpay when he bought the Sabres and Bills. But when it comes to operating a franchise that strategy will fail. McDermott and Beane have managed to tame his inner Pegula with the Bills. Can Kevyn Adams do the same for the Sabres? A good sign was they didn't give Taylor Hall a long term contract.

Pegula would have absolutely crushed it in the pre-salary cap era.

 

[Royisgone]

Terry Pegula's default mentality is do whatever takes regardless of cost or consequences. It works in the petroleum industry because there is n0 CBA or salary cap. The employees aren't comparable to players and most of the value is in fixed assets. You can overpay and waste assets and still come out ahead. Terry showed his willingness to overpay when he bought the Sabres and Bills. But when it comes to operating a franchise that strategy will fail. McDermott and Beane have managed to tame his inner Pegula with the Bills. Can Kevyn Adams do the same for the Sabres? A good sign was they didn't give Taylor Hall a long term contract.

There is no analogy to be drawn between McBeane and Adams, unfortunately.

McBeane were fairly strong personalities brought into the Pegula world from the Outside, and have operated from a position of strength within that world from the beginning. The strength comes from, largely, getting it right.

On the other hand, Adams is an inbred, self-created and promoted Pegula product, who is largely there to do what Pegula says. Any power Adams has has been given to him through Pegula.

The entire setup is totally dissimilar to the Bills; it's also a big part of why Pegula is not going to find the next "McBeane" on the Sabres end of the empire.

Rather, he is going to go around in circles chasing his tail while racking up historic failure records. When they sell off Eichel and Reinhart for pennies on the dollar, it will get a lot worse than it is now.

The most relevant hope for all Sabres fans now is the date upon which Pegula sells the Sabres. Unfortunately, no one discusses this fact.

 

[SackTastic]

There is no analogy to be drawn between McBeane and Adams, unfortunately.

McBeane were fairly strong personalities brought into the Pegula world from the Outside, and have operated from a position of strength within that world from the beginning. The strength comes from, largely, getting it right.

On the other hand, Adams is an inbred, self-created and promoted Pegula product, who is largely there to do what Pegula says. Any power Adams has has been given to him through Pegula.

The entire setup is totally dissimilar to the Bills; it's also a big part of why Pegula is not going to find the next "McBeane" on the Sabres end of the empire.

Rather, he is going to go around in circles chasing his tail while racking up historic failure records. When they sell off Eichel and Reinhart for pennies on the dollar, it will get a lot worse than it is now.

The most relevant hope for all Sabres fans now is the date upon which Pegula sells the Sabres. Unfortunately, no one discusses this fact.

Pegula bought the hockey team because he was a long time fan and it seemed like it would be something cool with his (then recently acquired) billions.

Pegula bought the football team because NFL teams are guaranteed money making assets that do not depreciate in value.

 

[TehDoak]

Pegula bought the hockey team because he was a long time fan and it seemed like it would be something cool with his (then recently acquired) billions.

Pegula bought the football team because NFL teams are guaranteed money making assets that do not depreciate in value.

Let's be 100% clear here.

The Pegula's bought the Bills because they love Buffalo.

They walked in and slapped down 200M+ over what most people thought the team would go for to end the bidding process immediately.

I h a t e what the Pegula's have done in managing the Sabres. It doesn't mean they don't love the city.

The latest Bills 'valuation' (From Forbes) is 2.15B

If the Pegula's put 1.4B into an index fund in 2014, they would have 2.58B.

While NFL teams are probably the gold standard in money making for sports teams, they still typically lag behind traditional investment vehicles.

I've taken some shots at the Pegula's over the past few years for their decisions managing the Sabres. However, they have spent an ungodly amount of money on Buffalo Sports. And to be frank, I don't want them to sell the Sabres. I simply want them to hire competent people to run the team and step out of day to day operations

 

[Sabre Dance]

There is no analogy to be drawn between McBeane and Adams, unfortunately.

McBeane were fairly strong personalities brought into the Pegula world from the Outside, and have operated from a position of strength within that world from the beginning. The strength comes from, largely, getting it right.

On the other hand, Adams is an inbred, self-created and promoted Pegula product, who is largely there to do what Pegula says. Any power Adams has has been given to him through Pegula.

The entire setup is totally dissimilar to the Bills; it's also a big part of why Pegula is not going to find the next "McBeane" on the Sabres end of the empire.

Rather, he is going to go around in circles chasing his tail while racking up historic failure records. When they sell off Eichel and Reinhart for pennies on the dollar, it will get a lot worse than it is now.

The most relevant hope for all Sabres fans now is the date upon which Pegula sells the Sabres. Unfortunately, no one discusses this fact.

Don't you remember the Whaley extension and the growing power of Russ Brandon? The only difference with the Bills and the Sabres is they hired the right head coach. It's that simple.

Look at the parallels. When Pegula bought the Sabres they got hot and made the playoffs unexpectedly. Most thought that was the end of the Regier and Ruff era. No, they tried to build on that. Basically the 1st 4 years after Pegula bought the team were wasted years.

Now look at the Bills. 2017 they sneak into the playoffs. Tyrod Taylor was the incumbent QB. They could have built on that team. No, McDermott had a plan and stuck to it. They tore down the 1st playoff team in 20 years because McDermott had a plan.

It's all about the leadership. I couldn't tell you that McDermott was going to be a successful head coach. He was passed over multiple times by other franchises. No one knew.

It's going to come down to finding the right GM/coach fit for the Sabres. It could be the next hire or it could take 10 years. Who knows.

 

[SundherDome]

Finally found someone as completely unqualified for their job as Kevyn Adams:

View attachment 446108

I mean a sitting US Senator on a cybersecurity committee posted a picture of his computer which has his login and password information taped to it....