OT: All Things Game of Thrones III (The End!?)

[deadhead]

Yeah, I look through journals too and that's largely how I immediately know your claim about PC Culture causing a deep dive in history scholarship is a heaping pile of garbage. It's false. Especially this notion that over the last 50 years things have gotten worse; that's just utterly laughable. What do you object to, the loss of Lost Cause historians justifying secession, pushing a falsified stats' rights narrative, justifying Jim Crow, and defending sharecropping?

Hint: If that is your conclusion on the state of the field, then you should do yourself a favor and stay out.

I didn't say things have gotten worse over 50 years, quite the opposite, things got much better from around 1970-2000, with a flood of articles and books that delved into much greater detail, the application of computers and statistical analysis, advancements in archeology, etc.

It's since 2000 that things have gone downhill, partially due to "publish or perish" pressure.

By 1970, there were no historians doing any of those things. The Lost Cause historians are way back in the past, like the 19th century - those espousing the Lost Cause since then have been Southern demagogues.

Now what was left in the High School textbooks around the country is a different matter.

Even the old doyens of southern history, C Vance Woodward, VO Key, didn't push those arguements (see Tom Watson: Agrarian Rebel, The Origins of the New South, etc.)

Revisionist history was in full force by the 1970s. A smattering in the 1960s was a flood by the 1970s
Genovese - Political Economy of Slavery, 1st ed, was 1961.
Time on the Cross, which created a whole cottage industry of analyses of the economics of slavery, came out in 1974.

Sharecropping is a complex issue, because it made sense for both sides of the bargain (given the pattern of land ownership, which was a result of the decision not to confiscate the Southern plantations after the Civil War) - nor did it "force" the sharecropper to grow cotton, there's a whole literature on the economics of sharecropping in the South.

 

[deadhead]

If you want to get a funny but twisted view on living under fear, see The Death of Stalin.
Fairly accurate, with some historical compression, but captures the weirdness of a system where one man held everyone' s life in his hand.

 

[deadhead]

A honest account of drug trafficking in Mexico and Columbia would have lots of murder and rape.
Beria, Stalin's secret police chief, raped hundreds of teenage and pre-teen girls.
A new book on Turkish massacres of Christians from 1890-1920 describes numerous mass rapes, abductions and forced marriages (shades of ISIS) - just released by Harvard U Press.
Where do you think blonde, blue-eyed Jews come from?

Rape and murder are commonplace in history.
In fact, in the Old Testament, "God" has to tell the Israelites to slaughter all the inhabitants of Canaan, instead of taking their wives and daughters as concubines and slaves.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I didn't say things have gotten worse over 50 years, quite the opposite, things got much better from around 1970-2000, with a flood of articles and books that delved into much greater detail, the application of computers and statistical analysis, advancements in archeology, etc.

It's since 2000 that things have gone downhill, partially due to "publish or perish" pressure.

By 1970, there were no historians doing any of those things. The Lost Cause historians are way back in the past, like the 19th century - those espousing the Lost Cause since then have been Southern demagogues.

Now what was left in the High School textbooks around the country is a different matter.

Even the old doyens of southern history, C Vance Woodward, VO Key, didn't push those arguements (see Tom Watson: Agrarian Rebel, The Origins of the New South, etc.)

Revisionist history was in full force by the 1970s. A smattering in the 1960s was a flood by the 1970s
Genovese - Political Economy of Slavery, 1st ed, was 1961.
Time on the Cross, which created a whole cottage industry of analyses of the economics of slavery, came out in 1974.

Sharecropping is a complex issue, because it made sense for both sides of the bargain (given the pattern of land ownership, which was a result of the decision not to confiscate the Southern plantations after the Civil War) - nor did it "force" the sharecropper to grow cotton, there's a whole literature on the economics of sharecropping in the South.

They haven't. That's the thing. It just hasn't happened.

 

[Lord Defect]

 

[Fire Tortorella]

So in The Last Watch documentary on HBO, the way Arya kills the Night King is...by jumping off a bunch of dead wrights. They mention it during the reading of the script.

Just LOL.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So when it isn't explicitly explained, people complain. When it is explicitly explained, people complain.


Exactly as I suspected.

 

[mja]

So in The Last Watch documentary on HBO, the way Arya kills the Night King is...by jumping off a bunch of dead wrights. They mention it during the reading of the script.

Just LOL.

This is the shit I couldn't possibly care less about, and I don't understand why anyone would care about it. The scene was filmed that way so that it was more cinematic and made for an instantaneously iconic moment. If you're looking for a mindless adherence to logic or physics at that granular a level, then you're doing it wrong.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is the **** I couldn't possibly care less about, and I don't understand why anyone would care about it. The scene was filmed that way so that it was more cinematic and made for an instantaneously iconic moment. If you're looking for a mindless adherence to logic or physics at that granular a level, then you're doing it wrong.

Think about how many classic films and shows would be ruined if they were subjected to this level of nitpicking. We'd have to throw the sci fi and action genres in the trash entirely.

 

[baudib1]

Of all the things to complain about this season, I don't understand why anyone cares about the physics of the Arya kill. The show and episode clearly established she can sneak past undead, she can sneak up on Jon, a former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and a magical super hero champion of R'hllor, in that very spot. She's a ninja assassin we've seen train extensively for 8 years who has the favor of both R'hllor and the Many Faced God. She dueled Brienne, who is basically the only undefeated fighter in the history of the show, to a draw, using the same move. Not to mention the fact that Bran is manipulating these events down to a matter of seconds.

She can definitely kill the Night King with a magic dagger right then.

Frankly I was super pumped and grateful that it happened. If that episode ended on a cliffhanger after all the shit they put us through I would have punched a wall.

 

[Rebels57]

So in The Last Watch documentary on HBO, the way Arya kills the Night King is...by jumping off a bunch of dead wrights. They mention it during the reading of the script.

Just LOL.

I watched the documentary and didn't see that mentioned or shown at all. I must have missed it, or they cut it by the time they got to filming. The table read is a pretty early rough draft of what is actually going to be filmed.

 

[landsbergfan]

I watched the documentary and didn't see that mentioned or shown at all. I must have missed it, or they cut it by the time they got to filming. The table read is a pretty early rough draft of what is actually going to be filmed.

Yeah, that was from the initial read through. More importantly during that is that they actually hinted the show was supposed to end with Jon stabbing Dany

 

[baudib1]

GRRM is the world's biggest fan of Scouring of the Shire, so there was never a chance the story can end without a long epilogue.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yeah, that was from the initial read through. More importantly during that is that they actually hinted the show was supposed to end with Jon stabbing Dany

I'll have to watch again but i've seen this posted a bunch of places and I didn't see that as the case whatsoever.

They jumped ahead multiple times during that reading. I saw it as they had the Dany/Jon scene and then jumped to later.

Didn't D&D say "End Game of Thrones"? Not the producer reading the Dany/Jon scene.

 

[landsbergfan]

I'll have to watch again but i've seen this posted a bunch of places and I didn't see that as the case whatsoever.

They jumped ahead multiple times during that reading. I saw it as they had the Dany/Jon scene and then jumped to later.

Didn't D&D say "End Game of Thrones"? Not the producer reading the Dany/Jon scene.

TBH you could very well be right...I was only half paying attention and it could've just been wishful thinking on my part.

 

[baudib1]

Good lord Barristan Selmy, Jeor Mormont and Ygritte were incredible characters.

They should have kept Selmy alive until the final seaso

 

[Rebels57]

I'll have to watch again but i've seen this posted a bunch of places and I didn't see that as the case whatsoever.

They jumped ahead multiple times during that reading. I saw it as they had the Dany/Jon scene and then jumped to later.

Didn't D&D say "End Game of Thrones"? Not the producer reading the Dany/Jon scene.

It did sound like they said "End Game of Thrones" right after reading the Dany/Jon scene.

 

[Embiid]

So Kit Harrington has committed himself to rehab.....stress and depression as well as alcoholism associated with the end of the show. Maybe he thinks he is typecast for the rest of his acting career?

 

[Qyburn]

Watching live I would have bet anything that Arya was hiding in the weirwood ready to drop down. (I hope I'm not the only one who picked up on the blue eyes line, or the fact that she was unseen for a good half an hour straight). Zero surprise that the first thing you saw was her in the air. But now apparently it looks like that's just what they should have done.

But yes, either way, one of the least things there is to complain about.

 

[baudib1]

So Kit Harrington has committed himself to rehab.....stress and depression as well as alcoholism associated with the end of the show. Maybe he thinks he is typecast for the rest of his acting career?

I think it's a combination of a lot of things... job-related stress, negative fan reaction to the end of the season, existential crisis. Major career changes are often very stressful. Actors and artists in particular suffer from a lot of demons, especially playing in such a dark world, playing The Joke and delving into that twisted mindset definitely killed Heath Ledger.

Apparently Harrington said something like, "I'll probably never be in something this big again," and while a little pessimistic, probably very true. It's tough to deal with thinking you've reached your professional peak at age 33.

 

[Jtown]

I think it's a combination of a lot of things... job-related stress, negative fan reaction to the end of the season, existential crisis. Major career changes are often very stressful. Actors and artists in particular suffer from a lot of demons, especially playing in such a dark world, playing The Joke and delving into that twisted mindset definitely killed Heath Ledger.

Apparently Harrington said something like, "I'll probably never be in something this big again," and while a little pessimistic, probably very true. It's tough to deal with thinking you've reached your professional peak at age 33.

At least he is smart enough to realize how fleeting success is at the top. Look at Brad Pitt. Hasn’t had a hit movie in a long time. Knowing what he knows he can live modestly and never have to work a day in his life

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Random musings here as I sit wide awake early in morning with nothing to do. This may or may not make sense and I also may be showing my age here with subject matter I am about to bring up

I finally realized what GOT fans upset with how show ended and season 8 went are most similar too

That is music fans/critics who trashed Oasis because Be Here Now was not a masterpiece as follow up to (What's the Story) Morning Glory?. The hate then got insane with music critics claiming they and that album killed Britpop

People were anticipating Be Here Now and when it came out there was much fanfare and early reviews were good. Then people started to complain about every track and the music video's related to album. MTV seemed to enjoy jumping on anything negative about Oasis and seemed to go out of way to avoid playing video's and when showing them always had to slam Gallagher brothers in one way or another

When you listen to album it is not a masterpiece but its not bad at all. Same with follow up Standing on Shoulders of Giants which was a very good album but because fans and especially critics were bitter with Be Here Now not being a masterpiece it was trashed even before it was released. By the time Heathen Chemistry came around the media was just waiting to trash the Gallaghers for all the wrongs with UK music scene.

There was plenty of things to hate about Oasis especially with the way Gallagher brothers acted (Especially Liam) but to claim that follow up albums to (What's the Story) Morning Glory? were all trash , etc , etc was nonsense nor did Oasis kill Britpop genre. It was already slowing down much like Grunge did in early 90's as most of the major acts were either breaking up or moving in new directions with music

 

[1865]

So when it isn't explicitly explained, people complain. When it is explicitly explained, people complain.


Exactly as I suspected.

That's precisely it. People want everything spoon fed to them it seems.

 

[Qyburn]

Quaithe is a pretty good premonition to the Mad Queen. Luckily she was included in the show. She is the type of character that could easily have been written out given the context of all the other characters that were written out.

Now that's it's over, I have to re-check what I always thought about Quaithe: I thought for sure she was always really there. But maybe she was never there at all.

 

[Rebels57]

I think it's a combination of a lot of things... job-related stress, negative fan reaction to the end of the season, existential crisis. Major career changes are often very stressful. Actors and artists in particular suffer from a lot of demons, especially playing in such a dark world, playing The Joke and delving into that twisted mindset definitely killed Heath Ledger.

Apparently Harrington said something like, "I'll probably never be in something this big again," and while a little pessimistic, probably very true. It's tough to deal with thinking you've reached your professional peak at age 33.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if D&D cast him in their new Star Wars trilogy. There are definitely still big roles out there for someone as famous as he is.

Also, he checked himself into the rehab a month before the finale, so I don't think it was related to fan reaction. Just a combination of stress, panic, saying goodbye to something you spent 1/3 of your life on, fame, etc. I respect him for taking care of himself and seeking help. I suspect he will be fine.