In the other thread i commented about some teams not being equipped to play the new entertaining style of pressure attack hockey with mobile pucking moving defenceman . Hagg so far is one of those players now that is not well enough equipped to play that style, he has to chip it up the boards to relieve pressure or throw it to his defense partner even if he is under pressure, He does not have the foot speed to get there earlier to give himself some time to take a look nor the agility to go east west to buy some time , hands are also qeustionable . He is young so i have not done to much complaining and hopefully with some more time he will be able to round out his game . The main problem has been his usage and that is on the coach not him if Travis had showed more defensive stability it would have taken away from some of Hagg's usage . I think Hagg is just the scape goat for many problems we have , fair or nor fair it is what it is.
All the Haag hate?
- Thread starter Scott Taylor
- Start date
His usage and who is mastercrafting it is an issue. I'm still rooting for him.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
It was pretty clear that no matter how well Sanheim played, Hakstol was going to use his favorites.
Sanheim was our 3rd best defensemen last year and yet his usage didn’t reflect that.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
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I agree OP. Some people just don't know talent when it smacks them right in the face.
As for Hagg's decreasing time on ice...He was still playing top 4 minutes in February. His minutes got cut only in March, when he just played in 7 games due to injury, and when he returned Hakstol didn't like him paired up with Gudas and the Sanheim/MacDonald pair had too much unsustainable goal luck to break them up or lower their usage (although once it did Sanheim played his usual 13 minutes).
Laughton is a 4th liner. Morin was 8th, at best, on the depth chart when he was healthy. Hagg was a top 4 defenseman playing with our best players. Morin probably would have struggled playing top 4 minutes too and that would have been pointed out, but it's hard to imagine he would have struggled as much as Hagg did. He's just more talented and he's actually aggressive in some key areas of the game.
As for Hagg's decreasing time on ice...He was still playing top 4 minutes in February. His minutes got cut only in March, when he just played in 7 games due to injury, and when he returned Hakstol didn't like him paired up with Gudas and the Sanheim/MacDonald pair had too much unsustainable goal luck to break them up or lower their usage (although once it did Sanheim played his usual 13 minutes).
It's a combination of overuse overhype and elitism. There's always been a scapegoat from braydon soburnt to bundy as far back as i can recall. Just as theres a love for the stay at home guy with snarl among casual fans there's a belief that every dman should score like a forward online. I think the lack of pmd over time has sort of lead to this.
Adtar02
@NateThompson44 is a bum
bennysflyers16
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2004
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Play him as a 6-8 D man and I have no issue with him. Sadly he will continue to play as a 4-5 and block the likes of Morin, Sanheim and Myers
bennysflyers16
Registered User
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mja
Everything was beautiful, and nothing hurt
This isn’t complicated. He’s not any good. Some of us can plainly see that, by the eye test and/or by the stats. Others are seeing...I don’t know what. I honestly don’t know what people are seeing when they watch him play and conclude that he has tangible value to an NHL team.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
No he was not and heck i'm a big fan he is from my home province . I went to the Flyers game when in Winnipeg to get a closer look and saw a player struggling in his own end physically when the jets had the pressure on . When he had time he made good plays he made several good first passes, was at his best if he had time to take a few strides then move the puck up . If winnipeg got the cycle going or got to the puck first he really had trouble and lost most all the battles .
To me it is like he needs to be put into high school wresling to learn leverage and stradigies to be able to get underneath and lift up to win some of these battles . He tries to battle to upright and gets beat . I watch him real close and have for years and this stuff is totally correctable so to me it's only a matter of time . Getting some tuff love from the coaching staff should only add fuel to his fire and we should see a different kid this year hopefully . imo of course
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
I didn’t say he was perfect.
But easily...
Sanheim > MacDonald
Sanheim > Manning
Sanheim > Hagg
And last year Gudas wasn’t himself, so I’d say Sanheim was better than him too.
The bar isn’t high, but Sanheim definitely cleared it.
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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To Striiker, more talent automatically = better. Doesn’t matter that Hakstol demands his team play a certain way & Sanheim wasn’t doing it earlier in the season. You should be like the Oilers, accept those shortcomings, & still go on talent alone.
JojoTheWhale
CORN BOY
- May 22, 2008
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Forget the arguing over the dramatized version of what happened last year. There has been a vocal minority on this board for years screaming that Hagg's mindset and playstyle are no longer what you want in a modern Defenseman. He came up and had the same weaknesses. At some point, a spade is a spade.
He has more physical abilities that could lead to him improving (see the Carolina game at the end of 2016-17). It's just an extreme long shot that the light happens to go on in his age 24 season, especially when the (org/coaching staff/insert noun of your choice here) values exactly what makes him a net negative at the NHL level.
He has more physical abilities that could lead to him improving (see the Carolina game at the end of 2016-17). It's just an extreme long shot that the light happens to go on in his age 24 season, especially when the (org/coaching staff/insert noun of your choice here) values exactly what makes him a net negative at the NHL level.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Gudas was at his best with Sanheim. Much better than he was with Hagg. It's almost like Sanheim is a better player.
Tripod
I hate this team
I just find it funny that a certain "defender" of Hagg and Hak says dumb shit like "he got top 4 minutes by default" because of other players issues. But TOTALLY ignores that Hagg TOO had just as bad issues yet stayed in the lineup quite easily.
Wasn't it @LegionOfDoom91 who posted Haggs monthly splits/stats in another thread? Once his "luck" started to normalize, his stats plummeted. But Hak kept playing him.
Regardless, thus shit has been beaten to death. No need to spend another 2 months rehashing the same info....and certainly didn't need a new thread on it.
Wasn't it @LegionOfDoom91 who posted Haggs monthly splits/stats in another thread? Once his "luck" started to normalize, his stats plummeted. But Hak kept playing him.
Regardless, thus shit has been beaten to death. No need to spend another 2 months rehashing the same info....and certainly didn't need a new thread on it.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
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The game where the best top 6 in hockey only had 5 shot attempts when he was on the ice? That was one of his best games of the year.
Magua
Entirely Palatable Product
Haag rolls out of bed and gets 20 hits and 10 blocks. f*** yeah.
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
It wasn’t me but it was pointed out many times earlier in the year that his goal results were unsustainably to the highest degree in his favor & would normalize if he continued to get gashed in every shot metric. Off the top of my head he was at a PDO of like 106 something at some point despite being like a 41% in CF%. He pulled his CF% up as the year went on to 44% but that’s still not good & his PDO normalized bringing his goal metrics down.
Striiker
Earthquake Survivor
Not true at all.
And if Hakstol is demanding that the team play a way, where Sanheim was wrong but Hagg was right, then that just proves Hakstol is clueless.
Hagg was no better in the defensive zone and Sanheim was miles and miles and miles better at moving the puck and helping create offense.
There is a correct answer here, Sanheim easily and indisputably outplayed Hagg. Just like he did everyone outside of Provorov and Ghost.
FLYguy3911
Sanheim Lover
- Oct 19, 2006
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Hagg month-by-month
[TBODY]
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Where is the improvement? He was poor every single month.
| xGF%rel | CF%rel | Games Played | |
| OCT | -11.01 | -6.65 | 12 |
| NOV | 0.27 | -4.57 | 13 |
| DEC | -1.74 | -8.99 | 13 |
| JAN | 0.69 | -6.30 | 12 |
| FEB | -3.59 | -2.93 | 13 |
| MAR | -12.73 | -9.53 | 7 |
| TOTAL | -3.90 | -6.11 | 70 |
Where is the improvement? He was poor every single month.
I said i watched him specifically and this is what i saw it does not mean that someone did not cover up for him or that Winnipeg capatlized on them at the time, actually i thought Winnipeg was not on thier game at the time . I have said i use to scout and these were problems he use to have so i went to see if he had corrected these particular problems but they still exhisted . Hagg's feet were very slow that game and Kony was really struggling with confidence at the time he was really frustrated and you could see it . I watched Patrick as well and he did ok at the time used his brain to make up for some short comings . I do not use alot of stats for judgements i like to go live and see for myself . Old school i guess
This was the game where Gudas had a brain fart
Ghosts Beer
I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
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Sanheim played soft until his recall. He was weak in puck battles. More than anything Hakstol wants his team to be strong in puck battles. He doesn’t always have the players who can do it, but that’s what he wants the team’s identity to be. Sanheim was soft, so he didn’t play. Hagg usually battled hard on the wall & played with more strength, so Hakstol rewarded him. If Sanheim ups his grit, he’ll play more. That simple. It’s not always a matter of talent (Edmonton) but getting your team to play a certain way. Hitchcock had many battles with Modano early in his career trying to get him to play a certain way, & it eventually made Modano a more effective, complete player & led Dallas to winning the Cup.
