All the Haag hate?

orangecrush8

Registered User
May 21, 2011
12,282
11,035
Hamilton, Ontario
First off (if you have bravely read all the way to here ;)), welcome to the Boards, Scott. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I can relate to your experience as a Flyers fan growing up in hostile hockey territory. Try doing that in Montreal!

For me, Hagg is a lightning rod. He is overused (coach) and overhyped (media). He was also selected to start the season over the much more talented Sanheim, which as you know didn't go over too well here. It's hard to divorce bad feelings for coaching / GM decisions from the player who (I feel) unjustly benefits to the (I feel) detriment of the team. It is particularly difficult when the coach has a tendency to use different metrics for ice time for different players.

My impressions of Hagg's skill level aren't as pointed as those of others here, but I see his shortcomings. He needs a lot of work to refine his defensive game and a LOT of work to refine his offense. Yeah, stats don't tell the whole picture, but they bring a set of evaluable numbers to compare with the eye test, particularly as a player progresses in leagues. Hagg's low offensive acumen in the AHL doesn't give optimism that he can improve at the highest level of competition.

Put Hagg on the bottom pairing in a lineup without Andrew MacDonald? Not a peep from me.
I’m late to the party. But this is extremely well put.

I especially agree with the comments about his success in the AHL. This isn’t this guy’s first year of pro hockey. He never once put up anything above below average offensive numbers anywhere. It unlikely it will appear at this level

There was one play in particular last year that I will honestly never forget. The Flyers had the puck in the ozone for at least a minute and had managed to make a line change while still controlling the puck. The puck then came on Hagg’s stick at the blue line along the boards and he floated a wrist shot in on a completely unscreened goalie. Killed all the momentum and allowed a line change for the opponent. It was one play, but holy moly that told me pretty much everything I needed to know about that guy.
 

JojoTheWhale

CORN BOY
May 22, 2008
33,325
103,978
There was one play in particular last year that I will honestly never forget. The Flyers had the puck in the ozone for at least a minute and had managed to make a line change while still controlling the puck. The puck then came on Hagg’s stick at the blue line along the boards and he floated a wrist shot in on a completely unscreened goalie. Killed all the momentum and allowed a line change for the opponent. It was one play, but holy moly that told me pretty much everything I needed to know about that guy.

It was just one play, but you’re 100% right on the circumstances. Toronto.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...vas-nbcsp-tsn4.2420713/page-12#post-138979005

No, I don’t know why I remember these things either.
 
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hockeyphan25

Registered User
Aug 28, 2005
506
5
What specific attributes are you looking for when you judge defenceman?

What specifically in their play and play style are you looking for?

And no this isn't me saying that all defenseman need to score like forwards, or be offensive defense man, or be Erik Karlson. What are you looking for in defensive d-men, what skill set? How do you like to see them play defense?

Ideally I'd want a Chris Pronger type who can do everything.

1. Don't make boneheaded plays with or without the puck. 2. Defend well in your own zone. (take away options, puck retrieval, clear the porch) 3. Get the puck going back in the right direction (hopefully not to come right back in your zone). 4. Defend well through the neutral zone. 5. Chip in offensively (scoring, playmaking, keep ins).

I'd probably rank them in that order but it depends what you have in your lineup. If we didn't have Ghost, Provy and Sanheim on the way. The value of contributing offense obviously increases.

Really though, I just want someone who is going to help us win. I'd prefer they'd be exciting in doing so but other teams need to fill their rosters as well.

Hagg led the team in plus/minus into January I believe. I don't care what people think about plus minus. It is a useful stat with some limitations. Hagg is obviously not better than Provy and Ghost because he had a better +/- but it shows he more than held his own during that period. To say he never played well once last year doesn't make sense.

Some players complement each other well. Since Prongers are hard to find, you need to find players who work well together and may be able to pick up where other players lack.

Hagg is not a perfect player. Nobody is saying that. I just think the hate for him is crazy.

We hopefully only need Hagg to be a fifth or sixth D. If he can at least play well in that roll and have a favorable contract, I'm happy.

For the record, since I'm a lurker and not a poster. I don't think I know more than everyone. Those are my opinions based on what I've seen. I respect most who post here and love to read your posts. This particular subject just seemed to be one sided and since I don't agee, I chimed in.
 

Magua

Doer of Hoffific Things
Apr 25, 2016
37,157
154,047
Huron of the Lakes
The OP created an account on Thursday. The same day, in what was his first post, he starts this Hagg thread, sure to get people's jimmies rustled. We are 10 pages deep now.

He hasn't been online since the minute he submitted enter. Not on that account anyway.

7CT0.gif


uw3zBy.gif
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
6,770
6,814
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
When he was drafted, Hagg had comments from various sites that praised his ability to play the body, skills as a puck handler and passer, excellent skating ability, strong shot, etc. The fact that we haven't seen that much of this so far in his career could be the way that he is being coached to play in NA. The guy wants to be a NHLer. It's one of the reasons that he came over from Sweden when he did.
What we have here in Hagg is a product of what his coaches have asked him to be. To be fair, if you were a young defenseman, would you want to be introduced to the game by Scott Gordon? Last season, Hagg had to take on a role that he was unsuited to play-second pair because Gudas forgot how to play hockey. Hagg should have been getting sheltered third pairing minutes as most rookie defensemen get when they break into the league. Let's just see what he does this season with some experience and if he gets appropriate PT.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
89,440
155,158
Pennsylvania
Coaching doesn’t remove brains and skill. He lacks those things because he stagnated years ago and hasn’t improved since. That’s on him and him alone. Especially when you see other guys who were able to continue improving, despite bad coaches.

And Gudas was still better than Hagg, so that’s no excuse for Haggs role. Same as literally every other defensemen on the NHL roster last year.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
78,743
86,024
Nova Scotia
The OP created an account on Thursday. The same day, in what was his first post, he starts this Hagg thread, sure to get people's jimmies rustled. We are 10 pages deep now.

He hasn't been online since the minute he submitted enter. Not on that account anyway.

7CT0.gif


uw3zBy.gif
Certainly sounds like someone created a 2nd account. Or their 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc... one.
 
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deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Going through a random game and found this gem. I think he got an assist on this one.


Actually, there was nothing wrong with that play, he had Couts as a screen, and another Flyer by the side of the net, throw it on the net and good things usually happen in that circumstance.
It would help if he had a better wrist shot, but practice, practice, practice.
 

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