The Faulker 27
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I think we'd all miss watching Seth "the Pancake" Jarvis get flattened 3-5 times per game, though.
All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XIV: Okay, but now what?
- Thread starter cptjeff
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I think we'd all miss watching Seth "the Pancake" Jarvis get flattened 3-5 times per game, though.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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bleedgreen
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Someone will get hurt and JP will get his chance. I think he’s stapled to the fourth until that happens unless it’s a third period shake up in a game we’re getting crushed in.
spockBokk
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- Sep 8, 2013
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Servalli really likes the Canes deadline. He also says that, to him, the Canes' "monster" offer for Meier was better than Jersey's. "Shocked to hear Grier seemed to prefer quantity over quality..." (around 22mins in):
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
Not enough people are saying this, but I also think that it's possible that Grier knew that Meier really wanted to play for New Jersey, and in some ways had to be truly blown away by the Canes to not trade him to the Devils. Again, with all of those Swiss nationals (Hischier, Siegenthaler, and Schmid), I wouldn't blame Meier for wanting to be there.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Fine. Finland versus Switzerland. Let's get it on.
WreckingCrew
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- Feb 4, 2015
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Patches is going to be out, surgery & rehabbing, for what, about a year this time? I don't think you "leave a spot" open for him because he won't be there to start the season and may end up not being ready at all. I think instead you JWilly him...fill out the roster, leave cap space for him, and then sign him as a "rental" ahead of TDL
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If that is the case, it's hard to much complain about Grier wanting to accommodate his player's wishes. The team maybe gains in goodwill more than it loses by taking a little bit poorer trade.
ndp
Hurricanes Pessimist
- Oct 29, 2015
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Hopefully they can keep the power play rolling right on into the playoffs.
One of my favorite things about the Staal line is with none of them being on the power play, when the Hurricanes score a power play goal and Rod comes right out with that line and they pin the other team in the ozone for a whole shift. It’s got to be demoralizing and frustrating, look at how it got under TB’s skin yesterday.
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You leave room for a league minimum deal with fair performance bonuses in case he continue to stay fit to play.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Thanks for sharing the Servalli piece. For those that don't want to listen.
- Says Canes have the best record in the NHL since Jan 11
- Says they identified 1 player that was a true difference maker, Meier and made a massive offer that he feels was better than what SJ accepted from NJ.
- Once that player was off the board, the Canes didn't see anyone else left on the board that was worth giving up future assets for.
- He loves that the Canes drew a line in the sand and instead of chasing their tails around, like every other team in the NHL seems to do. (Gives the example of Toronto missing out out on some guys a couple years ago and pivoting to Foligno simple to "add"). Said "you get in trouble every time when you do that"
- Says you have to set a plan, with processes and stick to it.
- Once Timo Meier was out, they had $10M in space, it's a luxury, so let's take a couple of no risk bets.
- So you take the best team in the league the last 2 months and add a 50 point defensemen and a guy with a "free shot" on your 4th line (Puljujarvi).
- He loved that once the difference maker was gone, they weren't going to spin their wheels trying to throw away futures for this.
- Said the Canes think their team is good enough without doing that and he agrees.
- He also said the playoffs are a case where each series is essentially a 7 game coin flip and the "best team" doesn't always win. Said the Canes view is give themselves a chance for 10 years and in one of those years they'll win that coin flip. Used the Caps and STL as examples, but said we won't know for 10 years if they are right or not, but right now he thinks the data supports their argument.
- The other guy thinks they should have gone after someone, so Frank asks "Ok, once Meier was gone, then who?" The guy said "Patrick Kane". Franks says he doesn't think Kane would have gone to Carolina and that the deal with the Ranger's was actually already cooked before the Meier situation was final.
- He was also shocked to hear Grier acknowledge they valued quantity over quality.
EDIT: Says he loves what Boston did at the deadline. Injuries might be some concerns, but likes Orlov, Bertuzzi and Hathaway adds.
- Says Canes have the best record in the NHL since Jan 11
- Says they identified 1 player that was a true difference maker, Meier and made a massive offer that he feels was better than what SJ accepted from NJ.
- Once that player was off the board, the Canes didn't see anyone else left on the board that was worth giving up future assets for.
- He loves that the Canes drew a line in the sand and instead of chasing their tails around, like every other team in the NHL seems to do. (Gives the example of Toronto missing out out on some guys a couple years ago and pivoting to Foligno simple to "add"). Said "you get in trouble every time when you do that"
- Says you have to set a plan, with processes and stick to it.
- Once Timo Meier was out, they had $10M in space, it's a luxury, so let's take a couple of no risk bets.
- So you take the best team in the league the last 2 months and add a 50 point defensemen and a guy with a "free shot" on your 4th line (Puljujarvi).
- He loved that once the difference maker was gone, they weren't going to spin their wheels trying to throw away futures for this.
- Said the Canes think their team is good enough without doing that and he agrees.
- He also said the playoffs are a case where each series is essentially a 7 game coin flip and the "best team" doesn't always win. Said the Canes view is give themselves a chance for 10 years and in one of those years they'll win that coin flip. Used the Caps and STL as examples, but said we won't know for 10 years if they are right or not, but right now he thinks the data supports their argument.
- The other guy thinks they should have gone after someone, so Frank asks "Ok, once Meier was gone, then who?" The guy said "Patrick Kane". Franks says he doesn't think Kane would have gone to Carolina and that the deal with the Ranger's was actually already cooked before the Meier situation was final.
- He was also shocked to hear Grier acknowledge they valued quantity over quality.
EDIT: Says he loves what Boston did at the deadline. Injuries might be some concerns, but likes Orlov, Bertuzzi and Hathaway adds.
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If this was the case then it does not make sense to prevent Meier from discussing an extension with them. Seems like that would have been beneficial for everybody involved.
I have a theory that Meier actually may have wanted to sign with Carolina. Waddell could have discussed a theoretical 40 goal scorer with his agent and maybe already had an understanding. Waddell offers up what he thinks should easily best any other offer. And then SJ just preferred Mukhamadullin. It would explain why Waddell was angry.
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"Flowers for Team Switzerland." According to a radio show legend, that is how they once put in the books the payment for a hooker requested by an unnamed international sports association bigwig on his visit to Finland. The person in question has reportedly since reinvented himself as a staunch opponent of corruption.
ndp
Hurricanes Pessimist
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Isn’t Kane basically a net negative at this point? He’s a name, a shell of his former self, and if he even agreed to come here Rod would likely choke him out before he had the opportunity to try and make a difference.
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
It may still make sense in terms of trade negotiations to not allow extension talks even if Grier knew that Meier's preferred destination was NJ. San Jose might've been afraid that the Devils could've lowered the trade return if they were the only club that could pen one. Instead of being held hostage by the Devils, he instead still got a huge return from them. Maybe not as large as the proposed Carolina package, but still huge.
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I've always said that Seravalli guy was smart and that his bounty of wisdom is closer to his hair color than his birth certificate.
Svechhammer
THIS is hockey?
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Ok so this basically confirms what I had been passing along was right, we were all in on Meier, we thought we had the best offer out there (and likely did, given Grier's quote) and it explains why Waddell was as pissed off as he was when our offer was rejected. We didn't have a solid backup plan.
Which, on one hand, I get it, but on the other, maybe Dundon should shut the hell up going forward if he doesn't know all the details. Unless his "aggressive" remarks were about the Meier situation and we were prepared to up our offer to whatever was needed, and SJ never gave us that opportunity, which would also explain why Waddell was pissed.
And back to SJ, to hear them acknowledge they valued quantity over quality, and still went with NJ over us....... Yeah, that whole situation reeks of negotiating in bad faith with us to keep us engaged while settling terms with NJ. I wouldn't be surprised if we never deal with Grier again, and wouldn't be shocked if that burns bridges with other GMs as well.
The Faulker 27
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Probably got under their skin even more than Teuvo.
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There’s a less nefarious potential explanation here: San Jose just didn’t value Morrow (presumably) as a primary piece and no combination of the Canes’ B-assets was going to change the equation for the Sharks.
They may believe that there is a non-zero risk of Morrow not signing a contract with anyone before graduation. Unfortunately for us, we could only offer them Morrow's rights for two years at this point. A signed Morrow may have a completely different value to them.
I don't think Dundon needs to shut up necessarily but rather chose his words more carefully. They WERE aggressive but when trying to trade for coveted players, you won't always land your guy. He could have said if we don't get our top target, it won't be for a lack of being aggressive. Secondly, it seems they played a zero sum game which is kind of foolhardy but does support why DW was pissed. But he's been around long enough to know better. I think Grier may have felt DW got the better of him in the Burns trade and without getting a guy like Jarvis, he could have been criticized again for getting played.
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
My explanation is also on the less-nefarious side, as well. Meier very well could've preferred New Jersey due to numerous factors that I mentioned above.
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It feels a bit silly when people insist on taking the sayings of the team brass at face value at the TDL/Free Agency time. Like, that is exactly the time when GMs should go up to eleven with the subterfuge and play their cards close to chest.
Hell, if you're planning to make serious move, don't tell everyone you're planning to make those serious moves!
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