All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Pt 11

[GoldiFox]

Hamilton and Svech sign matching $8 million x 7-8 year contracts on July 1. Gardiner is dealt for a bad forward contract with 1 year left rather than 3 (ex: Sutter or Bjugstad). Edmundson and TVR walk. Ideally Fleury has another good year and Ron Francis (who picked him) wants him the expansion Draft.

Slavin - Hamilton
Skjei - Pesce
Fleury - Bean

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

$8 mil may be 3-year bridge money for Svech. Laine got $6.75 mil x 2. Tkachuk got $7 mil x 3. Those numbers will rise with the next U.S. TV deal(s) spiking the cap in the first year of his next contract.

Rantanen's $9.25 x 6 sans SBs is the long-term comp. Add 500k-750k per to account for inflation.

 

[Lempo]

Svech is one Assist and two Points short of maxing out his Schedule A performance bonus on raw stats alone.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Slavin-Hamilton
Skjei-Pesce
Who-Cares

Preferably not two $4 million defensemen.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The certains are moving Gardiner. The question is what is the third pair? Bean-Fleury? Fleury-Keane? Bean-UFA? Bean-TVR? I don’t see a Keane Bean as a third pair. I would like to see a Fleury-Bean/Keane pair to save some money.

offense- I would eat half of Dzingle’s salary to get a good return from TB in order to add to the pile needed to move Gardiner. Nino stays if he is the expansion casualty. If not, move him if we can.
Foegele gets a 3 x 2.5-3 deal. Its a risky move for us if he becomes a good 6th winger. Same time it will clear off a roster spot in 3 years if he doesn’t work out
Geekie as the 4C with Martinook as his secondary if he isn’t quite ready for C duties.
With there not being a ton of cap space on contenders this upcoming offseason, could Hall or Dadanov be convinced to take a one year deal? Ton of cap space open in the 2021 offseason to get better deals. We need 2 scoring lines and adding another scorer would be ideal but we don’t have a ton of long term cap space right now(crazy world).
Goalies? Upgrade Mrazek? Upgrade Reimer? Sell off both and get a starter and a cheap backup?

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

With there not being a ton of cap space on contenders this upcoming offseason, could Hall or Dadanov be convinced to take a one year deal? Ton of cap space open in the 2021 offseason to get better deals. We need 2 scoring lines and adding another scorer would be ideal but we don’t have a ton of long term cap space right now(crazy world).

I have been wondering the same thing. We could potentially have a lot of cap room with Edmunson, TVR and Williams coming off the books, and by trading some or all of Gardiner, Mcginn, Reimer and/or Mrazek. Most contenders are not even in a position to sign one of these guys long term and then to have to protect in the ED over a guy who is established. Maybe we could play it to our advantage. Tell the team we are going all-in in 20-21 and make a semi-crazy offer of 7-8 million for one year for one of high-flying UFA players. Someone like Dadanov or Hoffman may be convinced to take it, knowing he could then sign long term with someone the next season with out being ED fodder. If we unload both of the goalies, we could make a move on a big fish like Markstrom, Lehner or Holtby, with Ned as the back-up since he is on a one-way next season. If we unload only one G we could then upgrade to a Greiss, Halak or Khudobin type and roll with a 1A/1B again. It will be interesting to see how we, and others, navigate this summer with the ED looming.

 

[Chrispy]

I have been wondering the same thing. We could potentially have a lot of cap room with Edmunson, TVR and Williams coming off the books, and by trading some or all of Gardiner, Mcginn, Reimer and/or Mrazek. Most contenders are not even in a position to sign one of these guys long term and then to have to protect in the ED over a guy who is established. Maybe we could play it to our advantage. Tell the team we are going all-in in 20-21 and make a semi-crazy offer of 7-8 million for one year for one of high-flying UFA players. Someone like Dadanov or Hoffman may be convinced to take it, knowing he could then sign long term with someone the next season with out being ED fodder. If we unload both of the goalies, we could make a move on a big fish like Markstrom, Lehner or Holtby, with Ned as the back-up since he is on a one-way next season. If we unload only one G we could then upgrade to a Greiss, Halak or Khudobin type and roll with a 1A/1B again. It will be interesting to see how we, and others, navigate this summer with the ED looming.

I'd avoid a one-year big offer to a forward to try and land one of your "big fish" goalies. Yes, it will be a long-term contract but that can be fit in. Unload one of Reimer or Mrazek and use the other as a backup for 20-21. Then that contract is gone when the 2021 raises hit.

It's definitely doable, especially if Gardiner is moved this off-season. There's about an $18M drop in salary and $23M drop in cap hit between 20-21 and 21-22 right now.

 

[MinJaBen]

We may not have as much cap as you are imagining. With the extra we took on at the deadline, my guess is more of the bonuses will be pushed to next year’s cap.

 

[Chrispy]

We may not have as much cap as you are imagining. With the extra we took on at the deadline, my guess is more of the bonuses will be pushed to next year’s cap.

That's an important point. CapFriendly lists $4.5M in potential performance bonus that could spill over, dropping next year's cap space from $8.5M to about $4M (plus whatever cap increase) with only 16 players under contract. That's doable, but doesn't leave much leeway.

But moving one of the goalies to bring in a UFA upgrade would take that back to $7M or so. Moving both and using UFA/Ned as a goalie tandem would take $4M up to about $10M.

None of this year's bonuses will impact the 20-21 to 21-22 drops I mentioned above, which is when they will need to deal with Svech and Hamilton getting raises.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Svechnikov is close to the full 850k in Schedule A bonuses already, assuming the minimum threshold applies in each category and all categories are maxed out in terms of potential compensation. However, he's not winning any awards or finishing Top 10 in any scoring categories. I believe that takes $1.8 mil in Schedule B bonuses off the calculation for 20-21.

Williams will achieve a 100k bonus next week, barring injury. He's already earned 150k. Make the playoffs and the total jumps to 500k. The rest (playoff round wins, SC, Conn Smythe) are pretty dubious at this point.

Necas may hit 20 goals, finish Top 6 in ice time per game among forwards with 42 GP or more and has an outside chance to be named to the All-Rookie team. Barring a super strong finish, the rest looks out of reach. We don't know what that will earn him. The same holds true for Foegele, who is flirting with the +/- category.

The realistic case for Svechnikov and Williams + the worst-case (in the context of the overage) is ~$1.9 mil. CapFriendly (Link) projects the EOY space atm to be 977k. That would result in a ~925k penalty.

 

[Lempo]

Svechnikov is close to the full 850k in Schedule A bonuses already, assuming the minimum threshold applies in each category and all categories are maxed out in terms of potential compensation. However, he's not winning any awards or finishing Top 10 in any scoring categories. I believe that takes $1.8 mil in Schedule B bonuses off the calculation for 20-21.

Williams will achieve a 100k bonus next week, barring injury. He's already earned 150k. Make the playoffs and the total jumps to 500k. The rest (playoff round wins, SC, Conn Smythe) are pretty dubious at this point.

Necas may hit 20 goals, finish Top 6 in ice time per game among forwards with 42 GP or more and has an outside chance to be named to the All-Rookie team. Barring a super strong finish, the rest looks out of reach. We don't know what that will earn him. The same holds true for Foegele, who is flirting with the +/- category.

The realistic case for Svechnikov and Williams + the worst-case (in the context of the overage) is ~$1.9 mil. CapFriendly (Link) projects the EOY space atm to be 977k. That would result in a ~925k penalty.

Foegele doesn't have Schedule A performance bonus, he has only a $20k Games Played bonus (obvious from the sum) which he has earned.

I could almost swear that all the ELC bonuses do give the maximum allowed money ($212.500 in a category) for the minimum allowed threshold performance, and the teams mess up only with the overall bonus cap. I assume Necas gets the $212.5k for any category, up to his individually negotiated sub-max cap of $538k.

If the guy is good enough to get a performance bonus on his ELC, it would I just stupid and evil to make getting it harder for him than some other guy and pissing him off by having people wrongly think he got it at 20 Goals if he actually didn't. Ditto with giving less money for a category.

Especially after Marner had a hissy fit in his contract negotiations of his missed Schedule B bonus that he wasn't given back in the day, and so didn't get it in the year his league top 10 performance would have warranted it.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Foegele doesn't have Schedule A performance bonus, he has only a $20k Games Played bonus (obvious from the sum) which he has earned.

I could almost swear that all the ELC bonuses do give the maximum allowed money ($212.500 in a category) for the minimum allowed threshold performance, and the teams mess up only with the overall bonus cap. I assume Necas gets the $212.5k for any category, up to his individually negotiated sub-max cap of $538k.

If the guy is good enough to get a performance bonus on his ELC, it would I just stupid and evil to make getting it harder for him than some other guy and pissing him off by having people wrongly think he got it at 20 Goals if he actually didn't. Ditto with giving less money for a category.

Especially after Marner had a hissy fit in his contract negotiations of his missed Schedule B bonus that he wasn't given back in the day, and so didn't get it in the year his league top 10 performance would have warranted it.

In Exhibit 5, an example of the goals bonus being partially earned at 20 and fully earned at 30 is used. Also, there's no mention of a minimum for a category in that exhibit. Is it elsewhere in the CBA?

 

[Chrispy]

This is confusing on multiple levels:

1) Carolina is close enough to the cap to worry about bonuses rolling over onto next year's payroll, which we believe will continue to be close to the cap!
2) Carolina has multiple players on ELCs playing well enough to earn bonuses!

 

[Lempo]

In Exhibit 5, an example of the goals bonus being partially earned at 20 and fully earned at 30 is used. Also, there's no mention of a minimum for a category in that exhibit. Is it elsewhere in the CBA?

I'm pretty certain there's no category minimum.

The authors of the CBA set the rules so that the team and the player *could* invidually negotiate a higher bonus threshold or a step-by-step model, but I strongly believe that in practice it's always the minimum allowed threshold and I have never seen evidence of another kind of setup. The minimums seem to be a given whenever an ELC player refers to the bonuses in a comment.

It really would be a dick thing to demand more than 20G or 35A or 60P out of an entry-level player who they are already robbing if he scores that much.

I'm less perfectly certain of if a category always pays the max when the total cap is agreed to lower than $850k, but I find it inplausible that a team would cheap out that way when they have already agreed to pay a performance bonus. Getting only a $100k when you score 20G would needlessly piss off the player who you will need to re-sign as an RFA in near future.

 

[SvechneJerk]

The certains are moving Gardiner. The question is what is the third pair? Bean-Fleury? Fleury-Keane? Bean-UFA? Bean-TVR? I don’t see a Keane Bean as a third pair. I would like to see a Fleury-Bean/Keane pair to save some money.

offense- I would eat half of Dzingle’s salary to get a good return from TB in order to add to the pile needed to move Gardiner. Nino stays if he is the expansion casualty. If not, move him if we can.
Foegele gets a 3 x 2.5-3 deal. Its a risky move for us if he becomes a good 6th winger. Same time it will clear off a roster spot in 3 years if he doesn’t work out
Geekie as the 4C with Martinook as his secondary if he isn’t quite ready for C duties.
With there not being a ton of cap space on contenders this upcoming offseason, could Hall or Dadanov be convinced to take a one year deal? Ton of cap space open in the 2021 offseason to get better deals. We need 2 scoring lines and adding another scorer would be ideal but we don’t have a ton of long term cap space right now(crazy world).
Goalies? Upgrade Mrazek? Upgrade Reimer? Sell off both and get a starter and a cheap backup?

Tangentially, they're going to be in a Cap crunch again this summer, aren't they? If so, who are the likely candidates to be the casualties from that?

I'm sure the probability isn't good, but wouldn't someone like TyJo fit in here pretty well, especially with his contract situation?

 

[2Minutes4Surging]

Tangentially, they're going to be in a Cap crunch again this summer, aren't they? If so, who are the likely candidates to be the casualties from that?

I'm sure the probability isn't good, but wouldn't someone like TyJo fit in here pretty well, especially with his contract situation?

I have always liked Tyler Johnson. But having him for 4 more years on the wrong side of 30 at $5 millon per is a little Jordan Staal-esque, and could look bad as soon as next year.

 

[AD Skinner]

I think trocheck probably takes us out of the Johnson market... but he may be worth picking up if only to keep him off a metro team and thus from scoring 3+ points against the canes 4-5 times a year

 

[bleedgreen]

Tangentially, they're going to be in a Cap crunch again this summer, aren't they? If so, who are the likely candidates to be the casualties from that?

I'm sure the probability isn't good, but wouldn't someone like TyJo fit in here pretty well, especially with his contract situation?

If we moved Staal out we could, or do you mean on the wing? Another righty that can make a play wouldn’t go amiss. As a center I don’t know that we have any changes coming for a couple of years.

 

[Daeavorn]

Vatanen had a setback in today's skate, per Civian. Seems like he is now out indefinitely.

 

[FreshSeabass]

it's by design the FO refuses to give up that 4th round pick.

 

[GoldiFox]

delete

 

[Daeavorn]

We really need that RHD help. Maybe if they get abused again tonight Rod will call someone up.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Renting a guy who is already hurt and then having him never play a game is embarassing.

we’ve got 2 injured RD better trade for another one! f*** they are dumb.

 

[DougieSmash]

pretty pointless trade. not that we pay a lot but we've got him for solid prospect and pick. meh.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

If it ends up that way it is a pretty brutal turn of events. Even if Kuokkanen ends up being no one - that’s an asset with current day value given away for nothing.

Hoping this is Rod screwing around with the definition of “awhile” again.