All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread Part XI - The Search Continues

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Chrispy

Salakuljettaja's Blues
Feb 25, 2009
8,329
26,825
Cary, NC
But there were options, as Gardiner demonstrated in 19-20 when healthy.

There were no options in Raleigh or Chicago last season when TDA got hurt. And if they bring in one PP QB they are again one stray slap shot away from a similar fate.

I could even accept an AHL vet who could slot in for a couple of weeks in a pinch.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,396
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But there were options, as Gardiner demonstrated in 19-20 when healthy.

There were no options in Raleigh or Chicago last season when TDA got hurt. And if they bring in one PP QB they are again one stray slap shot away from a similar fate.

I could even accept an AHL vet who could slot in for a couple of weeks in a pinch.
So if we sign a pp QB, we have a backup option in Gardiner this year?
 

Navin R Slavin

Fifth line center
Jan 1, 2011
16,225
63,731
Durrm NC
I think that they should go get McDavid and Stamkos and Ovechkin and they should convince them to take lower money because their best shot of winning a Cup is to play in front of Jaccob Slavin.

Saying dumb shit like that is what hockey message boards are for. Right? I mean, what the hell are we doing here otherwise? It sure ain't to talk politics, because man, f*** that.
 

Sigurd

Slavin, our Lord and Saver (AKA Extra Goalie)
Feb 4, 2018
1,839
5,273
North Carolina
What? My comments have been that you are over reacting before the off-season is over. And you are.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to think in “saving face”. Then have at it. I’m good.
Very disingenuous at best of you to say that when a lot of your comments have been implying I'm a fanboy of TDA/the latest one you said he is my favorite player and I was whining over him, and you conveniently ignored my counter evidence that my favorite player is Slavin and I've mentioned him under my avatar for literally years.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to save face and make me look bad, have at it. Obviously ignoring the other important part of the discussion helps you a little bit; which is why you did.

Yes let's see how it all plays out. And I would rather have a year of regression rather than throwing sh*t on the wall and signing X to contracts that hamstring us in the future just to fill a hole or 2 this year.
I also agreed with this post pages ago when I said fair enough. But yeah, I'm freaking out/now I'm overreacting for being concerned the Canes won't make substantive changes to improve the roster.
 

Daeavorn

livin' that no caps life
Oct 8, 2019
1,832
5,711
Raleigh, NC
Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Teravainen - KK - Necas
??? - Staal - Fast
Lorentz - ??? - Martinook

Slavin - ???
Skjei - Pesce
??? - Chatfield

Anderson
Raanta

That is the roster as it stands right now. The thing that stands out to me is that we really dont have a top 6 roster spot open. If we re-sign Necas then I would expect us to go after a 40pt guy to put on Staals LW.

I think you will see us make the biggest splash going after a defenseman. Gardiner has a higher chance of playing than being moved, imo.

I think anyone looking for us to get a big time scorer are gonna be dissapointed.
 

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis is Elite
Apr 14, 2012
38,087
105,472
North Carolina
Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Teravainen - KK - Necas
??? - Staal - Fast
Lorentz - ??? - Martinook

Slavin - ???
Skjei - Pesce
??? - Chatfield

Anderson
Raanta

That is the roster as it stands right now. The thing that stands out to me is that we really dont have a top 6 roster spot open. If we re-sign Necas then I would expect us to go after a 40pt guy to put on Staals LW.

I think you will see us make the biggest splash going after a defenseman. Gardiner has a higher chance of playing than being moved, imo.

I think anyone looking for us to get a big time scorer are gonna be dissapointed.
Drury is being penciled in I think
 

Stickpucker

Playmaka
Jan 18, 2014
15,425
37,250
Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Teravainen - KK - Necas
??? - Staal - Fast
Lorentz - ??? - Martinook

Slavin - ???
Skjei - Pesce
??? - Chatfield

Anderson
Raanta

That is the roster as it stands right now. The thing that stands out to me is that we really dont have a top 6 roster spot open. If we re-sign Necas then I would expect us to go after a 40pt guy to put on Staals LW.

I think you will see us make the biggest splash going after a defenseman. Gardiner has a higher chance of playing than being moved, imo.

I think anyone looking for us to get a big time scorer are gonna be dissapointed.

Drury is being penciled in I think

I think Drury deserves to be up with the big club. I don't think KK has shown he is a 2c. I don't like the idea of handing that to him. I also don't like the idea of Jordo at 2c. I wonder if Drury either isn't up or plays on the wing and KK plays another season at 4c with the expectation he takes that role from Staal after his contract expires.

Either way we need a 50+ pt player to replace Tro's production or we're going to lose a lot more this season. It's really hard to reproduce being the team with the least GA in the league so I don't think we can expect that.
 

raynman

Registered User
Jan 20, 2013
4,970
10,903
If he’s healthy? Yes.

Is he truly healthy? We had a lot better reason to believe that entering 20-21 than we do now.
I don’t really see them taking that risk but after the past couple off seasons you never really know what the hell they’re gonna do
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,396
98,081
Very disingenuous at best of you to say that when a lot of your comments have been implying I'm a fanboy of TDA/the latest one you said he is my favorite player and I was whining over him, and you conveniently ignored my counter evidence that my favorite player is Slavin and I've mentioned him under my avatar for literally years.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to save face and make me look bad, have at it. Obviously ignoring the other important part of the discussion helps you a little bit; which is why you did.
Edit: Nvm

no sense wasting more time on this. Until the off-season is over, I’ll reserve judgment.
 
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Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
48,396
98,081
If he’s healthy? Yes.

Is he truly healthy? We had a lot better reason to believe that entering 20-21 than we do now.
Fair enough. My guess the team probably views existing players (Slavin , Pesce , Skjei) as suitable “backups” in case of emergency injury as much as guys like Bean and Gardiner. Gardiner certainly has more puck moving skills but has had health issues. Rod never trusted Bean.

Most teams don’t probably have much of a 2nd choice. If Adam Fox goes down, Rangers are screwed. If Carlson goes down, Caps don’t have a great 2nd choice, etc…

I get what you’re point is, but not sure I agree with how important it is.
 
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Vagrant

The Czech Condor
Feb 27, 2002
23,660
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there's an element here we may need to pay more attention to in the idea that we might have aspirations of having someone like keane, honka, morrow, etc. to attempt to earn an nhl job on the powerplay. honka is likely ready for that assignment even if not ready for a regular shift, so it might be him that gets a strong look back there. I don't think we try morrow a year early if we didn't sign him to be on our black aces last playoffs. keane keeps hanging around so there's obviously something they like in him. there are even some really really low key UFA players like chase priskie and jordan gross who might thrive in a powerplay heavy assignment. plus some veterans like justin schultz, colin miller, will butcher, erik gustaffson. there's some guys there that could conceivably offer us something. especially if we fire bullets at forwards.
 

Nikishin Go Boom

Russian Bulldozer Consultent
Jul 31, 2017
22,076
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there's an element here we may need to pay more attention to in the idea that we might have aspirations of having someone like keane, honka, morrow, etc. to attempt to earn an nhl job on the powerplay. honka is likely ready for that assignment even if not ready for a regular shift, so it might be him that gets a strong look back there. I don't think we try morrow a year early if we didn't sign him to be on our black aces last playoffs. keane keeps hanging around so there's obviously something they like in him. there are even some really really low key UFA players like chase priskie and jordan gross who might thrive in a powerplay heavy assignment. plus some veterans like justin schultz, colin miller, will butcher, erik gustaffson. there's some guys there that could conceivably offer us something. especially if we fire bullets at forwards.
Colin Miller is my favorite for low key signing on the right side. Cane back from injuries so we can figure he is healthy. Is due a low dollar 1 year deal to recoup his value. He unsurprisingly didn’t have the same numbers in Buffalo as Vegas. He is a #4 defender that we could get for under 2 million. If we move Bear for another asset, he would be my target that could help move the puck from the back end
 
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Ole Gil

Registered User
May 9, 2009
5,709
8,912
Fair enough. My guess the team probably views existing players (Slavin , Pesce , Skjei) as suitable “backups” in case of emergency injury as much as guys like Bean and Gardiner. Gardiner certainly has more puck moving skills but has had health issues. Rod never trusted Bean.

Most teams don’t probably have much of a 2nd choice. If Adam Fox goes down, Rangers are screwed. If Carlson goes down, Caps don’t have a great 2nd choice, etc…

I get what you’re point is, but not sure I agree with how important it is.

The problem with PP specialists, is they have to play some minutes not on the powerplay. People don't love Ian Cole and Brendan Smith at even strength a lot of the time. Then you're really not going to like flawed AHL tweener who can only run the point on PP2.

I think we see teams with 1 PP guy, because realistically, that's how many you want. One great PP guy who is also okay at defense, and you make due with whoever else you can fit in there, because in an 82 game season, you want 6 guys playing regular minutes.

It's why I was surprised they didn't keep TDA. High end PMD's who are good enough in their own zone are hard to come by. People saying Klingberg...I have a hard time imagining Rod trusting him. I look at the AHL, a couple 33 in 60 game guys on the #1 AHL team doesn't scream pp1.

I think Necas is the wildcard. That's a huge piece that could be used to bring in a lot of 'non available' talent if they go that way.
 

spockBokk

Registered User
Sep 8, 2013
7,131
17,894
The problem with PP specialists, is they have to play some minutes not on the powerplay. People don't love Ian Cole and Brendan Smith at even strength a lot of the time. Then you're really not going to like flawed AHL tweener who can only run the point on PP2.

I think we see teams with 1 PP guy, because realistically, that's how many you want. One great PP guy who is also okay at defense, and you make due with whoever else you can fit in there, because in an 82 game season, you want 6 guys playing regular minutes.

It's why I was surprised they didn't keep TDA. High end PMD's who are good enough in their own zone are hard to come by. People saying Klingberg...I have a hard time imagining Rod trusting him. I look at the AHL, a couple 33 in 60 game guys on the #1 AHL team doesn't scream pp1.

I think Necas is the wildcard. That's a huge piece that could be used to bring in a lot of 'non available' talent if they go that way.

If the interest and possibility of signing Klingberg is real, I could definitely see them preferring to spend on him versus TDA. Klingberg is a legitimate top 4RD, who just so happens to also be a more than decent PPQB. I don’t think you could call TDA a “legitimate top 4 RD.” And, they evidently have been wanting to add Klingberg for a while, based on rumors, even when TDA was also on roster last season.

I think the front office sees Klingberg as a legitimate upgrade over TDA, but signing him to a long term deal at high dollars doesn’t really fit their MO. For next season and the following 2-3, I think Klingberg would be an excellent addition, even at $7M. But, it’s the back end 2-3yrs that likely would be necessary on that deal that are scary.

I still don’t think they end up trading Necas, but they’re only 3 days out from July 13 as of now and you have to think they’re aware of a potential offer sheet. It’ll be very interesting to see why they do over this next week.
 

Sigurd

Slavin, our Lord and Saver (AKA Extra Goalie)
Feb 4, 2018
1,839
5,273
North Carolina
there's an element here we may need to pay more attention to in the idea that we might have aspirations of having someone like keane, honka, morrow, etc. to attempt to earn an nhl job on the powerplay. honka is likely ready for that assignment even if not ready for a regular shift, so it might be him that gets a strong look back there. I don't think we try morrow a year early if we didn't sign him to be on our black aces last playoffs. keane keeps hanging around so there's obviously something they like in him. there are even some really really low key UFA players like chase priskie and jordan gross who might thrive in a powerplay heavy assignment. plus some veterans like justin schultz, colin miller, will butcher, erik gustaffson. there's some guys there that could conceivably offer us something. especially if we fire bullets at forwards.
Good point.

It'd also be fantastic if we could start seeing prospects besides Jarvis make a big impact for the Canes. We kind of saw that with what brief time Drury was with us, but that obviously didn't last long.
 

Borsig

PoKechetkov
Nov 3, 2007
4,673
9,078
Low country coast
Unless we make real moves, we are unable real bind.

Ill reserve judgment, but with Nino, tro and tda gone, way too much money in Gards, and nothing in FA to fill those roles, we are not a. 115 point team.
In fact I'd argue we will be grossly outclassed in the metro.

We will see. But we all know this team doesn't make big moves in FA.

Defense is worse. Our puck movement is worse, and we've lost 4 5 and 6 in team scoring. A lot can happen, but whatever. I'm nowhere near as excited for this upcoming season as I was last year at this point.
 

AhosDatsyukian

Registered User
Sep 25, 2020
11,156
32,528
We can't slot in JK as 2C this year if we have any hopes of contending. That's where the opening is in the top 6. If we can't find a top 6 C then move Necas or Jarvis to C and get a top winger.
 
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bobc222

Registered User
Mar 10, 2017
996
1,723
Svech - Aho - Jarvis
Teravainen - KK - Necas
??? - Staal - Fast
Lorentz - ??? - Martinook

Slavin - ???
Skjei - Pesce
??? - Chatfield

Anderson
Raanta

That is the roster as it stands right now. The thing that stands out to me is that we really dont have a top 6 roster spot open. If we re-sign Necas then I would expect us to go after a 40pt guy to put on Staals LW.

I think you will see us make the biggest splash going after a defenseman. Gardiner has a higher chance of playing than being moved, imo.

I think anyone looking for us to get a big time scorer are gonna be dissapointed.
This isn't going to cut it in the playoffs. Necas and KK can't play top 6 roles without taking large steps this summer. Unfortunately we are a consistent scorer away from contending. Our forward group is simply too weak
 

bobc222

Registered User
Mar 10, 2017
996
1,723
Will add another thought--- over the past 5 years, whenever the Canes make a big splash it's usually for a good defenseman and it hasn't been enough to push is over the edge. Trochek was the exception and it worked out pretty well. I would rather have our offensive defenseman role filled by a 5/6 cheap D guy who doesn't need to play top minutes and be sheltered next to Slavin, and spend the money we do have making a push at a free agent forward. Sadly, Forsberg was the player I thought would be the best fit given his heavy/scoring like play fits in Rod's system and he's a lot like Svech all things considered.
 

Discipline Daddy

Brentcent Van Burns
Nov 27, 2009
2,658
7,030
Raleigh, NC
A few of my thoughts. I've been interested to read the last few pages. There's definitely an initial "holy shit we're gonna tank" feeling when we trade our best offensive D for some draft picks before the season starts. The knee jerk feels inevitable from me. As it stands, we have Jake Gardiner as our #1 PPQB. I get the trepidation, but I know the Borg will figure something out, just as they did last year. At this point, I'd sure as hell rather have hole at PPQB and maybe #1 RD than have 6 more years of Hamilton at $9M. That'd limit our ability to do anything else with the roster.

Regarding Jesperi, I do think he'll get better. It happens all the time that a young player usually gets better and better. It's not always, but it happens frequently, especially if the player gets good coaching (check), confidence, and opportunity. Well last year JK didn't get the opportunity, but he kept saying how much he loved playing here and for Rod. Next year he gets the opportunity. It's possible he will regress, but the far likelier outcome is that he plays a little better for the next few years. He's probably our longterm 2C or 3C, and at $4.82M, I'll take that.

We saw Skjei get better and better in his years here, and same with Troch in his 2nd year than after his first TDL stint, and these were older players than JK. One of the biggest market inefficiencies, IMO, in NHL front offices is moving on from a guy at a depreciated asset cost after not having much patience with the player. Sports is a cutthroat game. Brady Skjei was that way. He cost a low 1st and has been a solid top 4 RD for us for years. Excellent value. We saw a player with great fundamentals - excellent skating, sneaky shot, big body, and good hitting who also came with mental miscues and mistakes. Give him a steady partner for a few years and confidence (and also take him off the first pair) and boom.

Another market inefficiency is the Ruutu and Gleason foul. This is when you're scared of losing a player who plays an important role for your team, and you're willing to pay market or over market cost to retain that player, even when you know it'll hurt long term. I think Philly did that with Ristolainen. Well, that's a bad example because he was a terrible player to begin with. We have two UFA forwards approaching 30, and the cost to keep them very well may be term until they are 35+. Probably the best thing to do long term is to look for other options. It's scary because right now we look like we're boned. There's a "jump off the cliff" moment where you don't have anyone filling these holes and we're out our #4, 5, and 6 scorers. We're doomed. But there are 31 other teams out there. Some of them will also have UFA players. Maybe after day 2, some of these players haven't gotten a deal and say "f*** it I'll take less term" and you get a guy for a much better deal. Or, more likely, you have teams go over the cap or right to the cap with UFA splashes and now they can't re-sign their RFAs. There's always a small market of Arizonas to help out your problem at the cost of draft picks. Now, it looks like the Borg wants to be in this group, but at the huge bonus of us being a CONTENDER. So we can take the cap dump (Marleau) to improve our team long term, or we can take the RFA at a depreciated asset cost (Teuvo, Jesperi, 2022 RFA) who wants to play for a really good team with the 2nd best coach in the league (next to Cooper).

Bottom line is it will be scary like this every year, but we'll magically end up with these low cost acquisitions. It's how we somehow got Stepan (who was a 2C the year before) for nothing, how we got Teuvo for nothing, how we got 3rd overall pick for a low 1st and 3rd, and how we got 1 year of a PPQB for $1M, then got a free 2nd+3rd+4th.
 

Unsustainable

Seth Jarvis is Elite
Apr 14, 2012
38,087
105,472
North Carolina
We can't slot in JK as 2C this year if we have any hopes of contending. That's where the opening is in the top 6. If we can't find a top 6 C then move Necas or Jarvis to C and get a top winger.
JK in limited 4th line minutes had 29 points. It’s possible with out grinder wings, he could produce the same as Trocheck in his spot.

Though Giroux would solve that.
 
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