All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread Part 5: The Jerk Store Called - It's Time to Restock

[Lempo]

The buyout costs, as real money, 2/3 of the remaining salary spread out over 2x of the remaining years.

Yes, except for guys under 26 at the time of termination only 1/3.

(which you may have well known and it just wasn't applicable here as both the examples were 26+ guys)

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

wrong thought edit*

 

[GoldiFox]

Again that is cap money. Look one table up and you see his buyout costs 4.7 million. Basically it costs us 600k more next year to buy him out next year then we pay him anyways.

When a player is bought out they don't get a lump sum. Not that I've ever heard of. The $4.7 million you are talking about is spread over 4 years. There is no scenario where the Canes buyout Darling and end up paying him more next year than they would burying him in the AHL.

 

[Lempo]

When a player is bought out they don't get a lump sum. Not that I've ever heard of. The $4.7 million you are talking about is spread over 4 years. There is no scenario where the Canes buyout Darling and end up paying him more next year than they would burying him in the AHL.

Though if season 2020-21 fails to happen, the difference isn't that big.

But it's still better to pay him home.

 

[Svechhammer]

Though if season 2020-21 fails to happen, the difference isn't that big.

But it's still better to pay him home.

I can't imagine the owners or players would be stupid enough to miss out on a 3rd season in 15 years

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

PP and PK were the weak spots of this team. That need to be the #1 priority going into the off season -weather that be via acquiring players or making some changes with the assistant coaches. With the way the special teams were this year they had to catch lightning in a bottle to make it as far as they did.

As far as goaltending goes I think the writing is on the wall that it will be Petr n Ned and I am ok with that.

barring injuries we will see some D leave - the guys that I do not see leaving under any circumstance are:
1) Slavin (too good to trade)
2) Pesce (too good to trade)
3) Dougie (the org went all in on him last year he wont be moved)
4) CDH (wont be traded while recovering from an injury and is 100 percent the type of guy Rod wants on the team)
That looks like a good top 4 to me.

Forwards who are 100 percent locks to be on the roster next year are
- Aho
- TT
- Svech
- Staal
- NN
- Martinook

Forwards who are very likely to be on the roster next year are (only way I see them not making it is via trade):
- Williams if he does not retire
- McGinn
- Wallmark
- Foegele

That leaves these guys who got a reasonable amount of time this year in a position to fight it out with the incoming rookies:
- Maenalanen
- Bishop (but see him as more of a tweener /13th forward)
- McKegg

Incoming rookies who will challenge for a spot are:
- Necas
- Gauthier
- Koukkanen
- Geekie
- Saarela
- Roy

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I'm not sure that the FO will be as quick to jettison the #2 defenseman on a Conference Finalist as some of you are.

Faulk had perhaps his strongest season all-around as a pro. He was close to the Olympic version of himself in his own zone and his production rebounded in the 2nd half. A Top 4 RHD that can score around .5 ppg and be good enough defensively to play on a shutdown pair is a player that should be held on to and an extension should be explored. It may turn out to be a choice between Faulk and de Haan, not Faulk and Hamilton, mid-term. I'll take Faulk in that one.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

If I had told my preseason self that Dougie Hamilton would have a total of 36 minutes this season paired with De Haan I'd have thought one of them would have been injured. Seems like a pair worth trying at least once.

I think it was just because DeHann and Faulk worked so well together almost immediately. It was the Slavin/Hamilton pairing that took forever to adjust.

 

[Canes]

I'm not sure that the FO will be as quick to jettison the #2 defenseman on a Conference Finalist as some of you are.

Faulk had perhaps his strongest season all-around as a pro. He was close to the Olympic version of himself in his own zone and his production rebounded in the 2nd half. A Top 4 RHD that can score around .5 ppg and be good enough defensively to play on a shutdown pair is a player that should be held on to and an extension should be explored. It may turn out to be a choice between Faulk and de Haan, not Faulk and Hamilton, mid-term. I'll take Faulk in that one.

I just don't think we trade CdH one year after he decided to sign a 4 year deal with us. We already aren't a prime UFA destination, I don't think trading one of the few that decided to actually sign here will help us especially now that we're starting to become a good team that might attract UFAs who otherwise would have never considered us before. Don't give them another reason not to consider us again.

The reality is that Faulk only has one year left after this year, and we might not be able to afford him after that especially if we bring in more forward talent. If Faulk stays, a righty probably has to go whether that's Hamilton or Pesce.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Well I guess im getting my regular and compliance buyouts mixed. Talk about stuck in the past

 

[Lempo]

I can't imagine the owners or players would be stupid enough to miss out on a 3rd season in 15 years

I'm currently going through stuff in my life that completely pauses me from questioning the limits of anyone's stupidity.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Faulk had perhaps his strongest season all-around as a pro.

Stuff like this makes me wonder who's career I've been watching since he was 19. Justin Faulk's 2014-15 was his best all-around season and it's not even close. He got post-season All-Star and Norris Trophy votes. He was very good in 2015-16 and 2016-17 as well. He fell off a cliff last season all the way to atrocious, and had a bit of a bounce this season, but not to anywhere near his peak in 2014-15. Do you know how hard it is to be the *only* negative Corsi player on a team, especially as a d-man? Justin Faulk did just that this season.

Add this to the fact that he may be the *least* productive power-play player in entire league in recent memory and your take reaches peak absurdity.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I just don't think we trade CdH one year after he decided to sign a 4 year deal with us. We already aren't a prime UFA destination, I don't think trading one of the few that decided to actually sign here will help us especially now that we're starting to become a good team that might attract UFAs who otherwise would have never considered us before. Don't give them another reason not to consider us again.

The reality is that Faulk only has one year left after this year, and we might not be able to afford him after that especially if we bring in more forward talent. If Faulk stays, a righty probably has to go whether that's Hamilton or Pesce.

They don't have to necessarily trade him this offseason. Move van Riemsdyk. Have Bean/Fleury/McKeown alternate next to de Haan on the 3rd pairing in 19-20. Move him next offseason, if Faulk signs an extension that works for both sides and Hamilton is willing to do the same.

Prioritizing the #5 defenseman on the roster and a player that can be directly replaced from within for a fraction of the price for that reason isn't good either.

 

[GoldiFox]

They don't have to necessarily trade him this offseason. Move van Riemsdyk. Have Bean/Fleury/McKeown alternate next to de Haan on the 3rd pairing in 19-20. Move him next offseason, if Faulk signs an extension that works for both sides and Hamilton is willing to do the same.

Prioritizing the #5 defenseman on the roster and a player that can be directly replaced from within for a fraction of the price for that reason isn't good either.

Faulk is likely to make $6-7+ million on his next prime-years UFA deal. Canes need to shift money away from the defense, not add to it. Let someone else overpay.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Whatever his injuries were.... he looked mega slow in these playoffs. His series amounted to him taking runs at guys after they moved the puck.

True, but in fairness, in a lot of this series, that describes most of the team. Boston really neutralized our forecheck by moving the puck quickly. They played a defensive game (always 3 guys back against our 2, or 4 against our 3, etc...) and then capitalized on our mistakes and on special teams.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

we have 53 million for next season already. You throw in Aho's 9 mil, Williams' 4.5 mil, and Mrazek's 4.5 mil we are up to 71 million.

Then you throw in another 3 million for Checkers who make the roster, we are looking at 74 million (Ned, Bean, and Necas).

If we move Faulk, for a top 6 forward, I will assume its a one for one transfer in terms of dollars.

Basically, we have a full roster with decisions to still be made on Fleury, McGinn, Maenalenan, and McE. We would have one forward spot open

For business purposes, we are spending another 1.5 million because Nino and Turbo's salaries are more than their cap hits. Also, if we buy our Darling we would save cap money but not real money. So I havent taken his money off the dollar amount. Again thinking like an owner who is spending money not like a GM who is trying to fit us in the cap.

As much as I would like to think we'd go over 75.5 million in spending money this off-season, it is hard to fathom based on the market and our history.

Faulk makes $6M in real money and his cap hit is $4.8, so depending who they trade him for in the scenario above, that may offset Nino/Turbo. Also, I don't think that's true about Darling. He's owed $4.1M in real money next year and $3M the following year. If they buy him out, he's only owed $1.18M / year for 4 years (total of $4.7M). So it saves almost $3M in real money next year and just over $2M over 4 years. Maybe I'm wrong on this. EDIT: Looks like this has already been covered.

I agree with your overall point though. Would be surprised to see the team go over $75M, which to me is why a Defenseman for Forward swap and buying out Darling is key. Doesn't have to be a D for F trade necessarily. Could be:
- D for NHL Forward trade
- D for Futures, then sign a F in UFA
- D for Futures, then Futures for a F

Or some combination.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Stuff like this makes me wonder who's career I've been watching since he was 19. Justin Faulk's 2014-15 was his best all-around season and it's not even close. He got post-season All-Star and Norris Trophy votes. He was very good in 2015-16 and 2016-17 as well. He fell off a cliff last season all the way to atrocious, and had a bit of a bounce this season, but not to anywhere near his peak in 2014-15. Do you know how hard it is to be the *only* negative Corsi player on a team, especially as a d-man? Justin Faulk did just that this season.

Add this to the fact that he may be the *least* productive power-play player in entire league in recent memory and your take reaches peak absurdity.

With more production came increasing inconsistency defensively to the point of being a liability in his own zone in 17-18. I don't know if that was correlation or causation. He was just a far cry from the player that made an Olympic team as a ~30 point defender in 13-14. In terms of all-around, two-way play, this is in the conversation for his best season. I stand by that.

 

[GoldiFox]

I'd still consider moving Pesce for a (post July 1 bonus) Nylander. Nylander could be the Canes #2C, he's right handed, and he'd make an average of just $4.95 million over the next 5 years. In this hypothetical Nylander would play for the Canes for just $700k next year. Dundon and Waddell have to love that possibility.

 

[Svechhammer]

I'd still consider moving Pesce for a (post July 1 bonus) Nylander. Nylander could be the Canes #2C, he's right handed, and he'd make an average of just $4.95 million over the next 5 years. In this hypothetical Nylander would play for the Canes for just $700k next year. Dundon and Waddell have to love that possibility.

Moving Pesce or Slavin for anyone outside of a legit all star 1st liner would be an absolute mistake. As long as those 2 are in the fold, our defense will be a strength and will keep us in contention, and possibly be enough to win us a Cup. Outside a sure thing Hall of Fame talent who will completely transform us offensively for the next decade, there isn't anyone I would trade either person for. And no, I don't think Nylander is that kind of player.

 

[Unsustainable]

Faulk for Zucker
Add Hayes
Buyout Darlin
Sign Mzarek
Trade Fluery?


Svechnikov - Aho - TT
Nino - Staal - Zucker
Martinook - Hayes - Necas
McKegg - Wallmark - Manalainen
Brown

Slavin - Hamilton
de Haan - Pesce
Bean - TVR
Carrick

Mzarek
Ned

 

[Lempo]

I'd still consider moving Pesce for a (post July 1 bonus) Nylander. Nylander could be the Canes #2C, he's right handed, and he'd make an average of just $4.95 million over the next 5 years. In this hypothetical Nylander would play for the Canes for just $700k next year. Dundon and Waddell have to love that possibility.

I couldn't stomach Nylander turning into crap instantly.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

Faulk is likely to make $6-7+ million on his next prime-years UFA deal. Canes need to shift money away from the defense, not add to it. Let someone else overpay.

de Haan makes $5.4 mil in the last year of his contract and with cap inflation, likely will come in around that number on his next contract starting at age 31. They wouldn't be saving that much by choosing the lesser defenseman.

I realize that I think more highly of Faulk's value to the team than most. My opinion doesn't align with the rest of the board when it comes to him. We'll see how the FO handles it. Trading him for what he's worth on the open market (no, he's not the centerpiece for Kadri) is probably going to sting, if that's the direction they take.

 

[Chrispy]

I'd still consider moving Pesce for a (post July 1 bonus) Nylander. Nylander could be the Canes #2C, he's right handed, and he'd make an average of just $4.95 million over the next 5 years. In this hypothetical Nylander would play for the Canes for just $700k next year. Dundon and Waddell have to love that possibility.

Nylander since signing the contract: 27 points in 54 games.
Pesce since Nylander signed: 26 points in 55 games.

It's not just that Nylander underperformed this year after signing. Pesce took a major step forward on offense, beating his career points high by 9 with 0 PP time. And he spent time on his off side paired with Faulk and did that well.

Pesce has shown much more than he had in the fall when we were throwing around a Nylander-Pesce deal. I wouldn't do that deal now.

 

[DaveG]

Stuff like this makes me wonder who's career I've been watching since he was 19. Justin Faulk's 2014-15 was his best all-around season and it's not even close. He got post-season All-Star and Norris Trophy votes. He was very good in 2015-16 and 2016-17 as well. He fell off a cliff last season all the way to atrocious, and had a bit of a bounce this season, but not to anywhere near his peak in 2014-15. Do you know how hard it is to be the *only* negative Corsi player on a team, especially as a d-man? Justin Faulk did just that this season.

Add this to the fact that he may be the *least* productive power-play player in entire league in recent memory and your take reaches peak absurdity.

I'm still convinced that Brad Malone ruined his career, or at least his development path. Before that hit in practice he had been on a hugely upward development trajectory and frankly looked like a young Duncan Keith. His skating still feels like it's nowhere close to what it was. His defensive coverage and transition game still haven't recovered as a result.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Saad would be a good addition. I would trade Faulk + something (maybe McGinn?) for Saad.

I also think the Canes could use someone like Filppula.

Nino Williams TT
Svech Staal Williams
Saad Filppula Necas
Foegele Wallmark Martinook

And here I was worried about having Williams, at 38 years old being in our top 6 and you have him double shifting in our top 6.