All purpose trade / roster building thread part 4: We like our Jerks

[WreckingCrew]

Phil Kessel - #6 in the league for PP P/60 (8.01). #1 on Pittsburgh in PP P/60. #3 in the league for P/60 relative to top-5 teammates PP production (+1.90). Owed an average of $5.36 million per year for the last 3 years of his deal. Right handed scorer. On everyone's "likely to be traded" list. Primary argument against being divisional.

That and his semi-psychotic outbursts and rage issues...

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

That and his semi-psychotic outbursts and rage issues...

Yeah even if he and Brind'Amour figured out a way to get along (unlikely as Kev mentioned above), throwing him into that room may be disastrous.

But like, if we could get him for our 1st round pick? Sure why not.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Yeah even if he and Brind'Amour figured out a way to get along (unlikely as Kev mentioned above), throwing him into that room may be disastrous.

But like, if we could get him for our 1st round pick? Sure why not.

Just give him his own, separate, private, heavily-padded locker room

 

[AD Skinner]

Winning can help a lot of different people get along

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I would be more interested in bringing in a veteran presence if Williams doesn't return next year, or if Williams's brain doesn't return tonight.

If the goal is veteran PP production, I'd target Eberle first, I'd accept yet another lefty and go after Zuccarello next. Spezza's not at the bottom of the list (Vanek, Simmonds) but there are definitely others I'd put first.

Is there some sort of consensus here on Simmonds? I think if you're looking for a right-handed veteran to help on the powerplay I'd probably take him over Spezza, especially since we likely won't be re-signing Ferland. Is it just that someone is more likely to overpay for him than Spezza?

 

[My Special Purpose]

Is there some sort of consensus here on Simmonds? I think if you're looking for a right-handed veteran to help on the powerplay I'd probably take him over Spezza, especially since we likely won't be re-signing Ferland. Is it just that someone is more likely to overpay for him than Spezza?

I really like the right-shot center if it comes down to those two. I really think we're set on the wing for the foreseeable future, even with Ferland moving on.

Hey, Spezza was just an idea. But I am legit concerned about leadership right now. Willie isn't going to play much longer and Staal/Slavin are the quiet "let my play do the talking" types.

As for average age, our current roster checks in at 25.5. If on the roster next season, Necas (20) replaces Ferland (27), Bean (20) replaces Faulk (27) and Nedeljkovic (23) replaces McElhinney (35) and waive/buy out Darling (30), we may have an average age that hasn't been seen in the league for a while.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Is there some sort of consensus here on Simmonds? I think if you're looking for a right-handed veteran to help on the powerplay I'd probably take him over Spezza, especially since we likely won't be re-signing Ferland. Is it just that someone is more likely to overpay for him than Spezza?

Speaking of Simmonds, does anyone know what happened to him? Only 30 and had a pretty sizable drop in production, nearly none after he got traded to Nashville.

 

[Chrispy]

Speaking of Simmonds, does anyone know what happened to him? Only 30 and had a pretty sizable drop in production, nearly none after he got traded to Nashville.

This is why there's no consensus on Simmonds beyond "DANGER!"

In theory he's a great match for the system Rod is running and is a veteran righty that would help the PP. Everything the Borg should be looking for this off-season.

In theory, reality is like theory. In reality, it's not.

 

[NotOpie]

The main problem with the PP is the horrendous special teams coaching

Perhaps....or even probably, but tactically the main problem with the powerplay is the fact that we don't moe the puck fast enough or unpredictably enough. It is the same movement over and over again. When one of our rare cross seam passes connects, we get a great opportunity...but because we are so methodical with our passes, the seams quickly close. Watch almost any other teams PP and you'll see significantly crisper passing and much more "back and forth-ing".

Is there some sort of consensus here on Simmonds?

If you're not of the opinion that he's slow and his effectiveness has dropped significantly, then no, I wouldn't be part of your consensus.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Perhaps....or even probably, but tactically the main problem with the powerplay is the fact that we don't moe the puck fast enough or unpredictably enough. It is the same movement over and over again. When one of our rare cross seam passes connects, we get a great opportunity...but because we are so methodical with our passes, the seams quickly close. Watch almost any other teams PP and you'll see significantly crisper passing and much more "back and forth-ing".

You can *see* what the Canes are doing on the power play. It's like a middle school basketball team running a play. They're thinking about what they are supposed to do, then doing it. It's not surprising it's ineffective. They just need to play hockey. I think the folks demanding a "power play coach" are entirely off-base. They already have enough voices in their ear. They watch video. They see other teams. They've been on the power play at every level up through the NHL. More coaching isn't what we need. We need the guys to relax and play hockey.

We're in the Eastern Conference Finals. It's *hard*. The opponent is at the top of their game. The pressure is amazing. And our guys have not experienced it. Expecting our power play to just click because somebody tells them something different is just ridiculous.

 

[JacquesCousteau]

Tuesday on the Aftermath Forslund responded to a caller's question about the PP with his opinion that part of the problem is don't have a quarterback, we don't have a guy to bump the puck out, and we don't have a sniper. It wasn't clear if that could be developed with the current personnel, or needed to come from the outside. I hope he'll talk about it more during the off season.

 

[Canes]

Perhaps....or even probably, but tactically the main problem with the powerplay is the fact that we don't moe the puck fast enough or unpredictably enough. It is the same movement over and over again. When one of our rare cross seam passes connects, we get a great opportunity...but because we are so methodical with our passes, the seams quickly close. Watch almost any other teams PP and you'll see significantly crisper passing and much more "back and forth-ing".

All of this points to coaching, or lack thereof in this case. I don't even see how this is even slightly debatable.

If it were as easy as just "relaxing" and doing what they have done their whole lives of playing on the PP, they would have done it already. It's not that simple. You need a system of doing things, and ours clearly isn't working. The coaches aren't putting the players in position to succeed. And if it's mainly the players' fault (which I don't buy at all, we have serious talent to make at least one competent unit), it's still the coaches' fault for barely doing anything about it when they run out pretty much the same personnel with few changes over and over again.

 

[NotOpie]

"D" - all the above....

Also, the "1' in our 1-3-1 that's supposedly below the baseline/net doesn't ever seem to be in the position to find anybody open in either slot. Earlier in the year, I thought they had Svech play that role (Lindy played it some last season). Regardless, I think the set up is tired and teams have figured it out.

I do believe that Kev is right in that they are over-thinking things and not playing with enough instinct....in fact, I think that's what happened in game 2, carried over a bit in game 3, but our effort helped mask it. If we're playing loose, TT and Svech bury their open net chances.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I agree with Kev in his assessment of the PP but disagree with the conclusion and still think a PP coach would be great.

I’m not picturing Marty St Louis in front of a big whiteboard drawing up plays for Columbus. I think his involvement is different than that, and I highly doubt they brought him out of retirement to do that.

I see a PP coach similar to how we got better this year upon getting rid of the X’s and O’s coach and bringing in the culture and accountability one. Maybe we just need a highly offensively skilled guy to come in, get guys to relax, and encourage them to use their talent instead of the mechanical, timid stuff they’re doing now. Not “see, you passed here where you should’ve toe dragged. Next time do a windmill deke.” Instead I picture him screaming “too timid too timid, trust each other and go out and make something happen,” or “if I see a single one of you standing in the same place for more than 3 seconds and you don’t have the puck, we do push-ups.” Or whatever. I’m not a coach, but you get my point. Someone to break through with these guys and say “hey, you’re talented. You’re all just afraid of turning over the puck and it’s killing us. Trust yourself and your teammates and make a play.”

 

[AD Skinner]

I agree with a lot of this, and feel like a pp coach is needed if for no other reason than to have somebody on the bench who can/will say "no Roddy, were not sending those same players out there again" if they have gone 0 for 5 so far in the game

 

[vorbis]

I think one thing that is so important for next season's PP is the ability to change and adjust from game to game or week to week, if things aren't working. if it's going to suck, at least try all the different varietals of suckage rather than just leave the elements there to fester.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

I’ve had the feeling for quite some time that the Canes are missing something on the back end. They’re mostly very very good defensively, but none of them are the PMD that the team needs. The creative passer, the quick transition up ice with the threat of taking it in on their own. Hamilton is a weird type of goal scoring defenseman who doesn’t get a lot of assists (not sure why). Slavin tries hard and skates fast but there’s a definite offensive ceiling there and it’s not high enough.

Obviously these don’t grow on trees. I’ve never seen Bean play so can’t comment on him. It’s just so evident on the PP that the auto-decision-making from the QB isn’t there.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

You can *see* what the Canes are doing on the power play. It's like a middle school basketball team running a play. They're thinking about what they are supposed to do, then doing it. It's not surprising it's ineffective. They just need to play hockey. I think the folks demanding a "power play coach" are entirely off-base. They already have enough voices in their ear. They watch video. They see other teams. They've been on the power play at every level up through the NHL. More coaching isn't what we need. We need the guys to relax and play hockey.

We're in the Eastern Conference Finals. It's *hard*. The opponent is at the top of their game. The pressure is amazing. And our guys have not experienced it. Expecting our power play to just click because somebody tells them something different is just ridiculous.

If that PP is what is supposed to be done, goodness gracious. You need someone who can watch the tape and figure out how to make them successful. The same person doesn’t have to worry about defensive strategies or offensive set plays, dude lives, who is hurt, etc. Coach will also be in Roddie’s ear to stop sending Faulk out there all year to shoot the puck wide of the net. Actually put his most offensively capable defender out there for more than 30 seconds a PP.

They aren’t executing crap out there. They have 4 dangling on the outside with one person on the bumper who may drift behind the net to catch a back door pass. That is awful. No one in the dirty areas, the goalie can see everything, and the defenders don’t have to move making the read of passes pretty easy. The same bumper person will drive the net before a shot to block the view. What is the best way to tell a goalie a shot is coming? Only block his view when a shot is coming.

The PP was most successful when we had a dude parked in front of the goalie the entire PP. Movement, more than cycles, and passing through the middle of the ice. We went from bottom 2 to middle of the league with that. We went home with more of the same in the playoffs.

The fact that professionals don’t need coaching is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Drivebytrucker]

I'm a Dougie Hamilton Fan. I like how he turned around his season and was a big part of our success the last few months of the regular season.

That being said, he showed a lot of his true character in these playoffs. This guy simply doesn't have the ability to step up his game


For all his warts, I think you can win a cup with Faulk on your roster, I m not so sure with Dougie.


If we're clearing out a logjam in our defensive core, I know who I'm trading.....

 

[spockBokk]

Saw this earlier:



I wonder if CDH’s recovery time on yet another shoulder injury will impact a potential trade of a D this summer. TVR will also be recuperating a shoulder this summer. It seems like they certainly don’t trust Fleury enough to fill in for either guy.

 

[spockBokk]

I'm a Dougie Hamilton Fan. I like how he turned around his season and was a big part of our success the last few months of the regular season.

That being said, he showed a lot of his true character in these playoffs. This guy simply doesn't have the ability to step up his game


For all his warts, I think you can win a cup with Faulk on your roster, I m not so sure with Dougie.


If we're clearing out a logjam in our defensive core, I know who I'm trading.....

I’d reluctantly agree with this. Dougie having 2 more years left on his deal is infinitely more valuable in trade scenarios vs. Faulk with just 2 year to ufa. But, before you trade Hamilton, I think you have to make sure you are reasonably confident in the number Faulk wants on his next deal and confident that he is willing to sign.

Faulk is a great 2nd pair guy. He’s not without his warts, but he’s adequate defensively and will chip in around 30pts a season. It seems RBA certainly prefers Faulk to Hamilton in basically all situations. So, if I’m the braintrust, I wouldn’t actively shop Hamilton, but I’d surely listen to offers. Kadri or RNH straight up for Hamilton would change the team dynamic wondeferfully imho. I’m not sure that TOR or EDM would see it that way tho.

 

[CanesFanBudMan]

Ferland already saying goodbye

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

With Hamilton we are trying to force him to being something he isn’t. He isn’t a top pairing defender. He is a PP QB, goal scoring, defender.

Our best defense is with Slavin & Pesce on the first pair and Dougie on the third pair. I wouldn’t roll a Bean/Hamilton third pair.

If we aren’t going to play Hamilton on the 1st PP then he should be traded.

Faulk has value after July 1st because he can be extended.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

With Hamilton we are trying to force him to being something he isn’t. He isn’t a top pairing defender. He is a PP QB, goal scoring, defender.

Our best defense is with Slavin & Pesce on the first pair and Dougie on the third pair. I wouldn’t roll a Bean/Hamilton third pair.

If we aren’t going to play Hamilton on the 1st PP then he should be traded.

Faulk has value after July 1st because he can be extended.

Hamilton isn’t really a PP QB and never has been, even in Calgary. He’s a shooter / goal scorer, but that’s not a pp QB.

 

[Chrispy]

With Hamilton we are trying to force him to being something he isn’t. He isn’t a top pairing defender. He is a PP QB, goal scoring, defender.

Our best defense is with Slavin & Pesce on the first pair and Dougie on the third pair. I wouldn’t roll a Bean/Hamilton third pair.

If we aren’t going to play Hamilton on the 1st PP then he should be traded.

Faulk has value after July 1st because he can be extended.

There is a level between top pairing and 3rd pair, right?

de Haan/Hamilton would be a very good second pairing for this team. I think it's a pairing many of us were expecting entering the season, then de Haan and Faulk clicked.

Slavin/Pesce
de Haan/Hamilton
as a top 4 makes sense.

Then fill in with Bean/TVR or with Fleury/Faulk or even Bean/McKeown. Not sure about Bean/Faulk as a pairing, but if those are the last 2 I can see flipping around pairings to make those 6 work:
Slavin/Hamilton
de Haan/Faulk
Bean/Pesce