All-purpose goaltending thread II - all Hutch/Pav talk here [Mod warning in OP]

[Derfel*]

We have a fairly heavy schedule of games coming up against teams over the playoff line. Pavelec's record is what it is - the numbers aren't pretty when playing teams above the line, and it's perfectly valid to note this. His frequency of play as of late doesn't diminish the validity of the poor record.

Should the Jets be giving him the chance to improve on that record to potentially 'redeem' himself, or should we be concentrating on earning as many points as possible?

Valid to note it, sure... but to keep noting it when he hasn't actually played? Obviously he wouldn't have improved on the record, seeing as he hasn't played. He couldn't have defeated a playoff-bound team lately... because he hasn't played.

I'm certainly not defending the record, and I'm agreeing that Hutchinson should continue to start now, but to keep harping on this old line seems unnecessary.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Valid to note it, sure... but to keep noting it when he hasn't actually played? Obviously he wouldn't have improved on the record, seeing as he hasn't played. He couldn't have defeated a playoff-bound team lately... because he hasn't played.

I'm certainly not defending the record, and I'm agreeing that Hutchinson should continue to start now, but to keep harping on this old line seems unnecessary.

One person brought it up. You questioned it. Others provided numbers. The only reason it continues to have life is most likely because we continue to discuss the validity of discussing it, methinks.

 

[cbcwpg]

You look back at all those lost points and it's so depressing. All because Maurice stuck with that rotation. Surely Hutchinson would have got more than four points out of that.

This whole season is on Maurice and Chevy. The players has busted their butts. The players have played through injures. The players have never quit. If we miss the playoffs it's for one reason and one reason only... the rotation and the insistence on playing Pavelec.

 

[Just Ducky]

Should the Jets be giving him the chance to improve on that record to potentially 'redeem' himself, or should we be concentrating on earning as many points as possible?

This is not the time of year for redemption.
I like Pavs- but reality is reality. He's been out goalied out of his starting job.
I do agree with Derf- he has not been given a chance lately. So why dump on him now?
For me- as long he wears the Jets jersey he has my support if called upon. That being said it would not be a shocker if his Jets days are numbered.

 

[Derfel*]

One person brought it up. You questioned it. Others provided numbers. The only reason it continues to have life is most likely because we continue to discuss the validity of discussing it, methinks.

I didn't question the record, I questioned the point of re-posting it when he hasn't played in two weeks.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

@Derfel and Just Ducky: It's a discussion board. I agree with your take on "Pav is a Jet" - as much as I want the best tender in net, I will also cheer for Pav when he's in net. He's a Jet.

That said, this is the goaltender thread. Any and all points are open for discussion. If you don't like what someone is saying, you can either:

• Debate it
• Ignore it
• Put the person on ignore

Suggesting that someone should not post something they want to discuss is not going to fly. If it's against the rules, report it. We're getting OT discussing what we should or shouldn't discuss.

 

[Hollywood3]

I don't know what to say ...

Pavelec era is over.

 

[Gotaf7]

What would be the reason to not buy out Pav's contract after this year? He has proven once again he is sub par goaler, will they continue to pay him close to $4 mil to back up Hutch?

 

[Markus250]

I think Hutch getting the start last night truly cemented his starting status, whether the team is ready to officially declare it as such or not.

A rookie goalie getting multiple starts in a row is not unheard of if he is on a hot streak (one regulation loss in his last 10 constitutes a hot streak for most coaches who often worry more about results than Save %). That can be chalked up to simply playing the hot hand. What's important here is that he got the next start after getting pulled, this is not something any backup or even 1a/1b goaltender is afforded when the other goalie is healthy. This is what makes Hutch officially the starter in my mind, the team realizes that even if he has struggled recently he still gives them the best chance to win on any given night.

 

[Derfel*]

Hutch is obviously the starter now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see Pavelec a couple more times this season. I'd expect the Jets to buy him out in the off-season, or trade him retaining 50% salary. This is even more likely if Frolik doesn't sign.

 

[White Out 403*]

edit: I'm still saving my favourite celebration GIF for the fine, fine day that Pavelec is actually off this team. i don't care if it takes 2 more years.

 

[Markus250]

Hutch is obviously the starter now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see Pavelec a couple more times this season. I'd expect the Jets to buy him out in the off-season, or trade him retaining 50% salary. This is even more likely if Frolik doesn't sign.

There are two B2Bs coming up, I'd imagine Pavs gets at least two more starts. Maurice will be hesitant to give the same goalie both starts, last time he did it turned out to be a very poor decision.

 

[mcpw]

What would be the reason to not buy out Pav's contract after this year? He has proven once again he is sub par goaler, will they continue to pay him close to $4 mil to back up Hutch?

I've posted this elsewhere:

I don't see ANY sense in buying out Pavelec this offseason. What is Pavelec? A pretty good backup, but overpaid at that. What is Hutchinson? Looks like an ok starter, methinks, and underpaid at that. Buying out Pavelec now means 4 years of cap hit, ending 2019. Buying out Pavelec 2016 means 2 years of cap hit, ending 2018. Buying out Pavelec means that you start the season with two very young goalies. If they fail, there won't be any good free agents to sign three weeks in the season. Maybe Brodeur and Bryzgalov are still around.... Buying out Pavelec without relying on Hutchinson/Hellebuyck means you try to get a backup on the FA market. You overpay for a non-elite starter (Niemi, Enroth?), or you pay for a backup (Ramo) who probably is no better than Pavelec. No sense here.

If you're really sold on Hutchinson/Hellebuyck (I'm not), move Pavelec in the offseason, salary retained. Best solution in terms of cap space, and there will be takers.

Still stand by that. If you buy him out, do it next year, when Hutchinson becomes expensive.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think it's fairly safe to say that the following is fairly likely:

1) Hutch is the starter
2) Pavelec will get about 3-5 more starts this season
3) We'll have the same two goalies next season.

On the last point, I think that they would rather have Hellebuyck playing minutes than a backup role, and it's unlikely that they find a trade partner for Pavelec. I don't think a buyout is an option that would be considered.

Pavelec is a backup level goalie at this point that will play as such next season. The contract is signed - it likely won't play a factor in the decision next season.

 

[mcpw]

With all the discussions, you should always remember why Pavelec hurts us.

Past seasons are past.

This season, he has (maybe) hurt us because Maurice took Hutchinson starts away for no good reason. This has changed in the last couple of games.

Next year, if Hutchinson is the starter and Pavelec the backup, he won't hurt us. The cap hit of both combined is decent for what we get. And we have an experienced vet as backup.

 

[StronGeer]

Didn't you issue yourself a threadban?

Also Markus came out of nowhere to "spit hot fire".
Easily the rookie of the year.

Meh. Not so much a thread ban as me saying I'm not going to talk about who is better, who should be in net, good saves v bad saves, the records of the goalies, etc. The post I quoted was addressing the reason that part of the discussion was being had quite accurately, and so deserved props.

 

[tntkid]

With the Jets not giving Pavelec anymore starts it makes me feel like they will just bring Hellebuyck up next year rather than go after a free agent goalie.

The Pavelec era is likely over here in Winnipeg.

 

[wpgsilver]

I think its unlikely that Pavs isn't here next year, but an H&H goalie tandem would be great.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Hutch is obviously the starter now, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see Pavelec a couple more times this season. I'd expect the Jets to buy him out in the off-season, or trade him retaining 50% salary. This is even more likely if Frolik doesn't sign.

Bold won't happen. No one would be willing to pay around $2m out of pocket for a guy worth 1/3 of that.

 

[Mud Turtle]

 

[tbcwpg]

With the Jets not giving Pavelec anymore starts it makes me feel like they will just bring Hellebuyck up next year rather than go after a free agent goalie.

The Pavelec era is likely over here in Winnipeg.

They won't do either. Pavelec will get a normal backup's number of starts.

 

[CaptainChef]

What would be the reason to not buy out Pav's contract after this year? He has proven once again he is sub par goaler, will they continue to pay him close to $4 mil to back up Hutch?

one reason only - because the Jets are loyal to a fault (and I don't mean that in any good way). Same reason why they signed Thorbs & Stu to lengthy contracts.

So yes, would it make great sense (financially and for the good of the team) & would there be great partying if the Jets bought out Pavs in the offseason - of course. Will it happen --- very unlikely.

 

[mcpw]

So yes, would it make great sense (financially and for the good of the team) & would there be great partying if the Jets bought out Pavs in the offseason - of course. Will it happen --- very unlikely.

I still don't get it. How is buying him out a good idea? Four years cap hit, and who are our goalies next season? Hutchinson/Hellebuyck with a grand total of less than 60 NHL games?

 

[wpgsilver]

I still don't get it. How is buying him out a good idea? Four years cap hit, and who are our goalies next season? Hutchinson/Hellebuyck with a grand total of less than 60 NHL games?

Why does lack of experience matter, when the alternative is someone who has been proven to be sub-par.

It is unlikely that Hutch or Hellebuyck is worse than Pavs next year.
As the Arctic Ice guys pointed out, last season Pavelec was as good as the average AHL call-up. I don't think its crazy to say it would have been similar this year as well if Pavelec played as many games.

Pavelec has experience in the NHL. Unfortunately year after year, he's proven to be a below average goalie.
Sure we go with two inexperienced goalie next year, but the likelihood that either is worse than Pavs is pretty low.

 

[mcpw]

Why does lack of experience matter, when the alternative is someone who has been proven to be sub-par.

It is unlikely that Hutch or Hellebuyck is worse than Pavs next year.
As the Arctic Ice guys pointed out, last season Pavelec was as good as the average AHL call-up. I don't think its crazy to say it would have been similar this year as well if Pavelec played as many games.

Pavelec has experience in the NHL. Unfortunately year after year, he's proven to be a below average goalie.
Sure we go with two inexperienced goalie next year, but the likelihood that either is worse than Pavs is pretty low.

I don't know whether it's worth taking a four year long cap hit. I don't know whether it's worth the risk of making Hutchinson starter without a proven backup. I don't think Pavelec is necessarily a bad backup. I'm not sure whether trading him at 50% retained is impossible, either.