Coach Discussion: All Purpose Coaching Thread Part III

[Hunter368]

I wouldn't be so sure of that......

Then I’m sure you can provide a long list of clearly better ones that are available?

 

[Whileee]

This team won't quit on him - half the defense literally owes him their NHL livelihood.

This looks like a team that is playing about the same as last year's but with less talent.

I'm fine with firing all the assistants, if that's what it takes... The powerplay is a disaster. It shouldn't take them this long to figure out it's not working. The PK is getting better results, which is nice to see - but there was only one way to go from where they started the season. The PK is still outperforming expectations by a couple of goals over the last 10 games, but they're giving up a lot less so I'll take it.

As far as effort and scrappiness - well a bunch of guys on this team would literally have no job in the NHL if it weren't for the Jets, so they're going to toe the line and give it 100%. Also, splitting Wheeler and Scheifele has led to a better division of labour among the Top 3 lines - which is essential when the 4th line only plays 4 minutes a night. Maybe when Appleton is back they can get back to playing 6 minutes a night...keep in mind, playing with a short bench and riding the top line into the ground all the time has been a Maurice trademark since he got here. Even with 3 lines getting over 90% of the ice time, the underlying numbers still suck hard. TGI Hellebucyk...

Laine, Ehlers, Connor and Roslovic aren't scrubs. I think they've all taken steps forward and are pretty consistent in work ethic this season.

 

[JetsUK]

I remember that game clearly. It was an incredibly lackluster effort for that time of year. They showed no killer instinct at all.

Good article in the athletic today, talking about how Schiefele is taking over leadership at practices especially regarding the younger players. Sounds like he is turning a corner leadership wise and taking matters into his own hands.

Next step: bothering to back-check. [INSERT WISTFUL SMILEY HERE]

I'm glad that we are where we are in the table, but we're not playing great hockey, and we aren't IMO playing anywhere near to the level of the talent we possess. Still feels to me that we're playing not to lose much of the time -- and I know there are reasons for that -- but it does not make for exciting hockey as often as it did.

I've been watching Boston, Carolina, the Caps and even Dallas recently -- we're nowhere near those teams in terms of overall intensity, apparent speed and skill, play style and execution, and yet we were very recently, and still have some world-beating talent up front and in net, and two legit Top 4 D with JMo and, it seems likely, Pionk. We have a top 6 that includes some of the best scoring and playmaking talent in the game, and we're still struggling to score at ES, while our special teams prop up the league. Why?

Maybe once the Buff dust settles we'll see some additions and improvements -- but if that decision goes the wrong way, then what?

 

[Gm0ney]

Laine, Ehlers, Connor and Roslovic aren't scrubs. I think they've all taken steps forward and are pretty consistent in work ethic this season.

And yet the team's underlying numbers are a disaster and the powerplay sucks - so this leads me again back to the root cause of coaching. Either the plan sucks or the team's not executing it. So if the team is executing it, then...?

 

[JetsUK]

Laine, Ehlers, Connor and Roslovic aren't scrubs. I think they've all taken steps forward and are pretty consistent in work ethic this season.

They weren't all mailing it in last year. Roslo and Laine have definitely looked better -- KC is KC, Scheif has perked up in the last while and I suspect that Ehlers' improvement is down to Ehlers --he's coaching himself at this point. But I agree that the team seems more focused and hard-working than last year, which is great to see. Not a lot of games where they've given up.

 

[jepjepjoo]

Penalty Kill unit was obviously dreadful to start the year but it has rebounded quite nicely (something like 85% after our first miserable 10 days).

After the first 10 days (7 games) PK is at 77.8% 24th in the league
First 7 games 69.2% 27th in the league
total 75.5% 24th in the league
Last 10 games 87% and 7th

 

[ps241]

This team won't quit on him - half the defense literally owes him their NHL livelihood.

This looks like a team that is playing about the same as last year's but with less talent.

I'm fine with firing all the assistants, if that's what it takes... The powerplay is a disaster. It shouldn't take them this long to figure out it's not working. The PK is getting better results, which is nice to see - but there was only one way to go from where they started the season. The PK is still outperforming expectations by a couple of goals over the last 10 games, but they're giving up a lot less so I'll take it.

As far as effort and scrappiness - well a bunch of guys on this team would literally have no job in the NHL if it weren't for the Jets, so they're going to toe the line and give it 100%. Also, splitting Wheeler and Scheifele has led to a better division of labour among the Top 3 lines - which is essential when the 4th line only plays 4 minutes a night. Maybe when Appleton is back they can get back to playing 6 minutes a night...keep in mind, playing with a short bench and riding the top line into the ground all the time has been a Maurice trademark since he got here. Even with 3 lines getting over 90% of the ice time, the underlying numbers still suck hard. TGI Hellebucyk...

I just don't think the talent is there to expect much possession wise. We have nice high end scoring talent but other than the 3rd line our forwards are not good defensively. Then you add to that our D core has two top 4 players and its just not a recipe to tilt the ice. Now we do have nice offensive weapons and we are currently getting vezina finalist goaltending and that combination is going to win you games.

 

[stonec]

I'll be honest in that I don't know enough about coach's 'systems' etc. The thing that makes me wonder about Maurice's ability to coach is our special teams (which may not even be him, but I'm sure he could change them if he wanted). The PP in particular for the past 12 months or so.... I just don't get it. If we need goals, then put out the very best players that give you the very best chance to score, and if you have to or if you can, just leave them out there for two minutes.

If you watched the PP for the past 12 months, 11 months of those were Scheifele, Wheeler, Laine, Buff and Connor playing close to two minutes and the other unit getting leftover seconds. Now in the last month or so they changed this to see if they could get more out of two balanced the PP units. Your claim that PP hasn't worked out very well is true, but that it's due to not the best guys playing, well, the last 11 months showed the issue wasn't about that.

 

[Hunter368]

11 potential landing spots for Babcock, Winnipeg is one of them according to Hockey Writers. OMG all the people complaining about PMO style, stubbornness and how he treats certain young players........they would absolutely lose their minds if they had Babcock here as our coach.

https://thehockeywriters.com/11-potential-landing-spots-for-mike-babcock/

 

[PhilJets]

Jets goal differentisl needs to improve.

Not sure its all coaching but i feel like the team can and should score more goals.

Is it the defensemen not able to get the forwards the puck enough in scoring areas?

I see Pionk as the only one who can make things happen on the back end. Except some spurts with Morrissey.

 

[Howard Chuck]

If you watched the PP for the past 12 months, 11 months of those were Scheifele, Wheeler, Laine, Buff and Connor playing close to two minutes and the other unit getting leftover seconds. Now in the last month or so they changed this to see if they could get more out of two balanced the PP units. Your claim that PP hasn't worked out very well is true, but that it's due to not the best guys playing, well, the last 11 months showed the issue wasn't about that.

you’re right that I probably shouldn’t have gone with the ‘best players’. The problem is certainly more to do with the static PP. I think I just see Ehlers roslovic Pionk Laine schief as the more creative dynamic players that cN make something out of nothing. Using the same PP strategy with everything going through Wheeler hasn’t worked in a year now. They simply stand around passing the puck. Every opponent is fine with letting them do that.

So maybe it’s a ‘both’ issue. I see more value in stacking the PP with the more speedy and creative players and adding in Our best shot, assuming he shoots

 

[Howard Chuck]

Jets goal differentisl needs to improve.

Not sure its all coaching but i feel like the team can and should score more goals.

Is it the defensemen not able to get the forwards the puck enough in scoring areas?

I see Pionk as the only one who can make things happen on the back end. Except some spurts with Morrissey.

I think we were far better at this with Heinola but that ship has sailed. His vision and first pass were miles ahead of everyone else.

 

[Ducky10]

you’re right that I probably shouldn’t have gone with the ‘best players’. The problem is certainly more to do with the static PP. I think I just see Ehlers roslovic Pionk Laine schief as the more creative dynamic players that cN make something out of nothing. Using the same PP strategy with everything going through Wheeler hasn’t worked in a year now. They simply stand around passing the puck. Every opponent is fine with letting them do that.

So maybe it’s a ‘both’ issue. I see more value in stacking the PP with the more speedy and creative players and adding in Our best shot, assuming he shoots

You still see the PP as static? They've improved their movement considerably. I just think they need to start finding the seams faster, they are still hanging on to the puck a little too long. The opportunities are there, just need to start seeing them.

 

[Howard Chuck]

You still see the PP as static? They've improved their movement considerably. I just think they need to start finding the seams faster, they are still hanging on to the puck a little too long. The opportunities are there, just need to start seeing them.

The Ehlers PP is not static at all. I love that PP but I think Laine should be on that one. The Wheeler PP is simply a PK for the other team. We pass around the outside until we run out of time.

 

[Ducky10]

T

The Ehlers PP is not static at all. I love that PP but I think Laine should be on that one. The Wheeler PP is simply a PK for the other team. We pass around the outside until we run out of time.

The 1st unit has been doing a much better job with their rotation. They just aren't hitting the seam passes quickly enough imo.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Maybe ruffled feathers included Buf and a coaching change will motivate him to play for the Jets again this year.

Not that I advocate for a change now. I think the Jets should just ride out the year with Maurice. Fix the D over the summer and bring in new coaching for the 20-21 season.

 

[Buffdog]

And yet the team's underlying numbers are a disaster and the powerplay sucks - so this leads me again back to the root cause of coaching. Either the plan sucks or the team's not executing it. So if the team is executing it, then...?

Would you rather win with bad underlying numbers or lose with good underlying numbers? Because I'm honestly curious how many teams are actually winning with good underlying numbers on an regular basis.

I think garret once stated that the "better" team only wins games 60% of the time in the nhl (I could be butchering that).

Sometimes I think people around here are more worried about stats than standings. We have a young team with a sh*tshow defence and we're sitting in a playoff spot.

 

[Gm0ney]

Would you rather win with bad underlying numbers or lose with good underlying numbers? Because I'm honestly curious how many teams are actually winning with good underlying numbers on an regular basis.

I think garret once stated that the "better" team only wins games 60% of the time in the nhl (I could be butchering that).

Sometimes I think people around here are more worried about stats than standings. We have a young team with a sh*tshow defence and we're sitting in a playoff spot.

The underlying numbers suggest the Jets aren't as good as their record...i.e. this probably won't go on forever.

I think it may be counterproductive to win like this if it gives the coaches the impression that they're on the right track - it's papering over the fact that the team's play isn't fundamentally sound.

But if they're just banking points while they figure it out, that's a different story. That was the hope last year.

 

[Whileee]

Consider this...

5v5 (score/venue adjusted), when the Jets are playing without any of the following forwards on the ice - Luoto, Gustafsson, Shaw, Bourque and Connor:

CF% 51.2, 11th in the NHL (compared to 48.5, 23rd overall)
xGF% 48.2, 23rd in the NHL (compared to 43.5, 30th overall)
GF% 57.6, 4th in the NHL (compared to 50.3, 17th overall)

Right now, the Jets' shot metrics are being dragged down largely by a terrible 4th line, and any line that Connor is on.

How bad has Connor been in shot metrics? The following charts are not for the faint-hearted.

My suggestion? Shift Perreault onto the Scheifele-Laine line and put Connor with Copp and Lowry to shelter him a bit defensively and to give him some time to learn from a couple of strong defensive players. He can also be the "sniper" on that line.

Ehlers-Wheeler-Roslovic
Perreault-Scheifele-Laine
Copp-Lowry-Connor
Vesalainen-Spacek-Chibisov

 

[Gm0ney]

Consider this...

5v5 (score/venue adjusted), when the Jets are playing without any of the following forwards on the ice - Luoto, Gustafsson, Shaw, Bourque and Connor:

CF% 51.2, 11th in the NHL (compared to 48.5, 23rd overall)
xGF% 48.2, 23rd in the NHL (compared to 43.5, 30th overall)
GF% 57.6, 4th in the NHL (compared to 50.3, 17th overall)

Right now, the Jets' shot metrics are being dragged down largely by a terrible 4th line, and any line that Connor is on.

How bad has Connor been in shot metrics? The following charts are not for the faint-hearted.

My suggestion? Shift Perreault onto the Scheifele-Laine line and put Connor with Copp and Lowry to shelter him a bit defensively and to give him some time to learn from a couple of strong defensive players. He can also be the "sniper" on that line.

Ehlers-Wheeler-Roslovic
Perreault-Scheifele-Laine
Copp-Lowry-Connor
Vesalainen-Spacek-Chibisov

View attachment 282415

View attachment 282417

Is that ranking of 23rd by the Jets top 3 lines vs all other teams minus their 4th line?

I agree that Connor is not an ideal two-way forward ( :understatementemoji: ). I'd like to see them try Perreault with Scheifele and Laine, but that would require an injury - maybe a bunch (because I suspect Maurice would move Copp up if Connor got hurt).

 

[Whileee]

Jets goal differentisl needs to improve.

Not sure its all coaching but i feel like the team can and should score more goals.

Is it the defensemen not able to get the forwards the puck enough in scoring areas?

I see Pionk as the only one who can make things happen on the back end. Except some spurts with Morrissey.

Jets' adjusted 5v5 goal differential (GF%) is 50.3% (#17 in the NHL). The Blues are at 50.6% (#16 in the NHL).

Interestingly, the Blues shot metrics are pretty bad:

xGF% 46.4 (#28 in NHL)
CF% 50.2 (#16)

Yet, they are #4 in points percentage.

So far this season there has been almost no correlation between 5v5 (adjusted) CF% or xGF% and Points percentage (r-square = 0.05).

 

[Whileee]

Is that ranking of 23rd by the Jets top 3 lines vs all other teams minus their 4th line?

I agree that Connor is not an ideal two-way forward ( :understatementemoji: ). I'd like to see them try Perreault with Scheifele and Laine, but that would require an injury - maybe a bunch (because I suspect Maurice would move Copp up if Connor got hurt).

No, that's just removing the Jets' 4th line (and Connor), and comparing to all other teams' full rosters. Obviously, many other teams would be better without their 4th line, but it shows how much of a drag the Jets 4th line has been in very limited minutes, and how much of a drag Connor is with his high minutes.

 

[Whileee]

In case you are interested, here is the picture for the Jets defensively when Connor is not on the ice (5v5) - basically about the same as NHL average in terms of threat against. It's hard to overstate how much of a problem Connor's defense has been, considering his high ice-time.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

His board play is poor when he is not moving. If he gets the puck on his side standing still there is very high chance that it is coming right back in.

 

[Howard Chuck]

In case you are interested, here is the picture for the Jets defensively when Connor is not on the ice (5v5) - basically about the same as NHL average in terms of threat against. It's hard to overstate how much of a problem Connor's defense has been, considering his high ice-time.

View attachment 282429

My eye test has been telling me the same thing both this year and most of last. It's not a popular opinion