All-Purpose Attendance Thread - Part II

[RealSpartan]

Then pack it up and be gone already. It's fatiguing hearing about how shitty we are all the time.

 

[Spartachat]

Define idiot.

He's an ass. A jerk. He's all kinds of not nice things rolled in to one

But not smart....no, i don't think so

He is pretty bad at running a hockey team!

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

An apology by Melnyk will do jack shit. That is not what people want around here or elsewhere. Yeah, there are some down seasons, while many find it as a justifiable reason to ditch their team and come back when things get better, I find it equally a rallying point to display what kind of fans we actually have here in Ottawa.

And I think the hockey world got their answer

You should've just completed your train of thought and say Ottawa has pretty f***ing lousy fans.

 

[JD1]

You should've just completed your train of thought and say Ottawa has pretty f***ing lousy fans.

Tell you what, before i signed on here i was reading an article on the score app on my phone

There was an article in the app on attendance

18 of 31 teams playing to > 95% capacity
9 teams playing to 90 - 95% capacity

that leaves 4 teams.
Arizona and Florida who have always had attendance issues.

The islanders are at 80.9% (so the other two are above that) and they don't have a permanent home

Them there's us at 65.3%

Lots of guys say attendance is an issue all over. It is. Nothing like here though. Our attendance would need to increase by 50% to get to >95%.

Personally I don't think this is sustainable. The NHL is owned by billionnaire owners. I can't see the league forcing the franchise to remain here with this attendance. Something has to give. Either Melnyk sells or attendance picks up. If he isn't selling and the attendance remains as is...i figure we'll be gone in the not too distant future

Oh...the article also referenced the current Nassau Coliseum being built in 72. Thats 14 years older than our building.

 

[Wondercarrot]

An apology by Melnyk will do jack shit. That is not what people want around here or elsewhere. Yeah, there are some down seasons, while many find it as a justifiable reason to ditch their team and come back when things get better, I find it equally a rallying point to display what kind of fans we actually have here in Ottawa.

And I think the hockey world got their answer

an apology won’t do anything anymore, so at least one thing you said there is accurate.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Tell you what, before i signed on here i was reading an article on the score app on my phone

There was an article in the app on attendance

18 of 31 teams playing to > 95% capacity
9 teams playing to 90 - 95% capacity

that leaves 4 teams.
Arizona and Florida who have always had attendance issues.

The islanders are at 80.9% (so the other two are above that) and they don't have a permanent home

Them there's us at 65.3%

Lots of guys say attendance is an issue all over. It is. Nothing like here though. Our attendance would need to increase by 50% to get to >95%.

Personally I don't think this is sustainable. The NHL is owned by billionnaire owners. I can't see the league forcing the franchise to remain here with this attendance. Something has to give. Either Melnyk sells or attendance picks up. If he isn't selling and the attendance remains as is...i figure we'll be gone in the not too distant future

Oh...the article also referenced the current Nassau Coliseum being built in 72. Thats 14 years older than our building.

When you tune into Arizona, Detroit or Florida games do you actually think their capacity is anywhere near what's been reported?

 

[BatherSeason]

Tell you what, before i signed on here i was reading an article on the score app on my phone

There was an article in the app on attendance

18 of 31 teams playing to > 95% capacity
9 teams playing to 90 - 95% capacity

that leaves 4 teams.
Arizona and Florida who have always had attendance issues.

The islanders are at 80.9% (so the other two are above that) and they don't have a permanent home

Them there's us at 65.3%

Lots of guys say attendance is an issue all over. It is. Nothing like here though. Our attendance would need to increase by 50% to get to >95%.

Personally I don't think this is sustainable. The NHL is owned by billionnaire owners. I can't see the league forcing the franchise to remain here with this attendance. Something has to give. Either Melnyk sells or attendance picks up. If he isn't selling and the attendance remains as is...i figure we'll be gone in the not too distant future

Oh...the article also referenced the current Nassau Coliseum being built in 72. Thats 14 years older than our building.

Melnyk has no money to move the team, nor would he be willing to move somewhere where he doesn't own the building.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Melnyk has no money to move the team, nor would he be willing to move somewhere where he doesn't own the building.

FAKE NEWS.

EM still has lots of money. He paid himself handsomely too last year. Apparently, most of his money is tied up in “investments”.

He is not selling, or moving unless FYOUS fails.

 

[BatherSeason]

FAKE NEWS.

EM still has lots of money. He paid himself handsomely too last year. Apparently, most of his money is tied up in “investments”.

He is not selling, or moving unless FYOUS fails.

Dude can't even properly staff a front office or even a cleaning staff. There is zero chance he moves the team. Quit with the threats and nonsense.

A good chunk of the fanbase are pleased with what happened at the deadline, not sure why we need to reignate the good fan vs bad fan debate with relocation threats. A few of you asked fans to be more positive and it seems we have, yet the "good fans" seem to want to continue to bait posters into more arguments.

Now if you call my claim FAKE NEWS, do you have any facts to back up your case? At least the flip side of the argument has debt refinancing, multiple lawsuits and a man with no financial means to maintain a staff. Heck even just yesterday we hear that he won't even pay an employee that the law deemed he needs to.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dude can't even properly staff a front office or even a cleaning staff. There is zero chance he moves the team. Quit with the threats and nonsense.

A good chunk of the fanbase are pleased with what happened at the deadline, not sure why we need to reignate the good fan vs bad fan debate with relocation threats. A few of you asked fans to be more positive and it seems we have, yet the "good fans" seem to want to continue to bait posters into more arguments.

Now if you call my claim FAKE NEWS, do you have any facts to back up your case? At least the flip side of the argument has debt refinancing, multiple lawsuits and a man with no financial means to maintain a staff.

Amazing, you felt the need to bring all that up, as I definitely did not. I was just arguing the point is that he has no money as you stated.

Not baiting anyone, friend. Just thought it was not a factual to portray the owner as broke.

The fact is attendance is down, it has been going down. The organization most likely made a decision to rebuild a while back, as everyone knows and agrees to is that teams go through cycles and need to blow it up to make it work. What people will never agree in is that they had to trade off the entire stable of talent to do it right. I also don’t think anyone will ever agree that most of that stable was not interested in working through a rebuild for 5 years. Would you stay in Ottawa if you were Mark Stone?

It had to happen, all the signs were there. As I said on day one, the organization surely factored in a dramatic drop in attendance. What sucks is that people still feel the need to promote the demise of the team on social media daily and twist the truth to paint a picture that really is not true. This hurts the future fans of this team, not the awful owner.

Sorry if you thought otherwise, it was not my intention

 

[JD1]

Dude can't even properly staff a front office or even a cleaning staff. There is zero chance he moves the team. Quit with the threats and nonsense.

A good chunk of the fanbase are pleased with what happened at the deadline, not sure why we need to reignate the good fan vs bad fan debate with relocation threats. A few of you asked fans to be more positive and it seems we have, yet the "good fans" seem to want to continue to bait posters into more arguments.

Now if you call my claim FAKE NEWS, do you have any facts to back up your case? At least the flip side of the argument has debt refinancing, multiple lawsuits and a man with no financial means to maintain a staff. Heck even just yesterday we hear that he won't even pay an employee that the law deemed he needs to.

I don't think anyone on this board jumps thru bigger hoops than you to spin something

 

[Tuna99]

Amazing, you felt the need to bring all that up, as I definitely did not. I was just arguing the point is that he has no money as you stated.

Not baiting anyone, friend. Just thought it was not a factual to portray the owner as broke.

The fact is attendance is down, it has been going down. The organization most likely made a decision to rebuild a while back, as everyone knows and agrees to is that teams go through cycles and need to blow it up to make it work. What people will never agree in is that they had to trade off the entire stable of talent to do it right. I also don’t think anyone will ever agree that most of that stable was not interested in working through a rebuild for 5 years. Would you stay in Ottawa if you were Mark Stone?

It had to happen, all the signs were there. As I said on day one, the organization surely factored in a dramatic drop in attendance. What sucks is that people still feel the need to promote the demise of the team on social media daily and twist the truth to paint a picture that really is not true. This hurts the future fans of this team, not the awful owner.

Sorry if you thought otherwise, it was not my intention

rebuilding and lack of star power does lead to attendance drop, but Ottawa’s attendance isn’t because of the rebuild. It’s community engagement that’s been well documented.

We had empty seats during playoff series for a team that was making national headlines almost daily. And a superstar D who put together the best season of any player in Sens history by a mile.

the fact that you say fans are promoting something that isn’t true, it’s true to them and there’s enough energy there to still talk about something they care about. You can’t define why fans are gone because it’s well documented that a ton of fans stay away because of Melnyck and his habits.

a fact of business that will never change is customers only promote and spend at companies (from local bakery to mega store) that they feel reflects their values (why Tim Hortons runs commercials everyday showing parents and kids spending family time together) - and when that link is broken the business fails.

Is Ottawa a failed business - on many levels it is, it can’t retain off ice or on ice employees, the fans are gone, the emotional tie to the business is eroding and fans openly speak about the owner not representing them or their community well.

Sens aren’t playing to 7500 fans because Alfie left, Sens are playing to 7500 because they feel Alfie was betrayed and even Alfie said that. Big difference, it’s not a lack of starpower going to Detroit, it’s that the star power went to Detroit because he felt his values didn’t align with Ottawa’s and you can’t promote a guy like Alfie and have a city love him and sell a fan base that he left for more money, we didn’t buy it, we bought Alfies story of he felt betrayal - and in turn, so does the fanbase

 

[BatherSeason]

I don't think anyone on this board jumps thru bigger hoops than you to spin something

I could probably name 5 or 6.

Melnyk isn't moving the team. He doesn't play nice with others. No way he plays nice in another city.

 

[supsens]

Melnyk has no money to move the team, nor would he be willing to move somewhere where he doesn't own the building.

So you don’t think that if they manage to draft and build a great young team and the fans don’t come back someone might step up and offer 400 million to move one of the best young teams in the nhl?
If he can only sell the team and building for that amount locally why wouldn’t he keep the land and make extra money?
If people don’t show the team will not last forever that is guaranteed.

 

[BatherSeason]

So you don’t think that if they manage to draft and build a great young team and the fans don’t come back someone might step up and offer 400 million to move one of the best young teams in the nhl?
If he can only sell the team and building for that amount locally why wouldn’t he keep the land and make extra money?
If people don’t show the team will not last forever that is guaranteed.

If Dorion is able to build and retain the best young team in the NHL them fans will come back. Retaining them is key. Also we are still a long ways away from being the "best young team in the NHL". He has yet to retain anyone and there even seems to be a struggle to extend Boro, which should be a slam dunk.

 

[supsens]

If Dorion is able to build and retain the best young team in the NHL them fans will come back. Retaining them is key. Also we are still a long ways away from being the "best young team in the NHL".

Well I don’t see how they will be retained without any money from the fans,
unfortunately it seems to be the downward death spiral of sports teams that fail.
It’s great to pretend some money man that has already sunk a couple hundred million into a failing team is going to keep it up, but that might not pan out.
New buyers will know if they ever need to rebuild or cut costs due to money/performance issues the fans will turn on them and demand millions and millions in lost money every year.
If the market can’t keep up with running costs how do they fix it?
It’s just not logical to assume they will never move

 

[BatherSeason]

Well I don’t see how they will be retained without any money from the fans,
unfortunately it seems to be the downward death spiral of sports teams that fail.
It’s great to pretend some money man that has already sunk a couple hundred million into a failing team is going to keep it up, but that might not pan out.
New buyers will know if they ever need to rebuild or cut costs due to money/performance issues the fans will turn on them and demand millions and millions in lost money every year.
If the market can’t keep up with running costs how do they fix it?
It’s just not logical to assume they will never move

Oh well, then he moves the team since you all say it's the likely scenario. Continuing to threaten relocation isn't gonna scare people into buying tickets. You guys have tried this angle multiple times this season and it has resulted in nothing but arguments.

Tearing down a team is the easy part, rebuilding the team from the ashes will be what's tough. The same can be said about a fanbase. At least the one ice product seems to be headed in the right direction, off the ice is an entirely different story. Shrugging your shoulders without even attempting to bring back fans just shows that Melnyk is an idiot, as mentioned in another thread.

 

[supsens]

Oh well, then he moves the team since you all say it's the likely scenario.

Tearing down a team is the easy part, rebuilding the team from the ashes will be what's tough.

Well people like to complain about cheap this cheap that but the reality is it’s a business and these guys are doing a lot of moves and trades that are keeping the team afloat while they acquire what looks like a good young group, it will be stunning if they can pull it off, a disaster if they can’t.
That’s a tough job for Dorion to rebuild while trading picks and taking less for talent just so they can operate on a super cheap budget. They really need to change the draft a bit, the franchise might live or die on the hopes of winning a lottery. This isn’t an Edmonton type deal where the building is packed for ten years of stink, it’s a real example of why the draft was the way it was.


What’s EM going to do to bring them back? He just hired a top marketing pro, there isn’t much else he can do

 

[BatherSeason]

Well people like to complain about cheap this cheap that but the reality is it’s a business and these guys are doing a lot of moves and trades that are keeping the team afloat while they acquire what looks like a good young group, it will be stunning if they can pull it off, a disaster if they can’t.
That’s a tough job for Dorion to rebuild while trading picks and taking less for talent just so they can operate on a super cheap budget. They really need to change the draft a bit, the franchise might live or die on the hopes of winning a lottery. This isn’t an Edmonton type deal where the building is packed for ten years of stink, it’s a real example of why the draft was the way it was.


What’s EM going to do to bring them back? He just hired a top marketing pro, there isn’t much else he can do

What's he gonna do? Move the team obviously. That's been the go to for a few of you for 2 seasons now. Argument done.

Hope everyone has their tickets for PEI night tonight, especially all of you that like to call everyone bad fans for not attending.

 

[Larionov]

One of the realities is that, in hindsight, the CTC is a bit too big for this market. A building of 16k or so would be better suited for Ottawa. Right now, capacity at the CTC is 18,600 IIRC, and even that is down from the near 20,000 that used to be there before building the additional lounges, viewing plazas, etc. That's where sports is going, and when we get our new building (which we will get eventually) you'll see a smaller building with more of those viewing areas. (Most popular spots at the REDBLACKS games are the areas in the two end zones where people can mill around with their beer and watch the game at the same time.)

It's not going to all turn around overnight due to the accumulation of ill will, but the reality is that winning fixes everything - always has, always will. If this team picks it up next year and can stay on the fringes of the wildcard race, I guarantee that average attendance will tick up into the 14k area. Not great, but better. Put Lafreniere on the roster (21% chance, I know, but possible) and you can goose that up even further. Get to 15k or so the year after, and this franchise is back on stable ground. A sold out building would be great, but given the nice national TV and local broadcasting money Canadian franchises get, the Sens don't need to totally sell out that building every night - 15k to 16k would work just fine, along with better local sponsorship numbers.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

The team isn’t moving lol

 

[Larionov]

Dear fellow Posters,

I really wish I could have been part of that monumental game, but Melnyk made me stay home.

I’m a self described super hardcore Ottawa Senators fan who refuses to go to any games, or spend any money on team related items. I will make sure everyone knows how I feel loudly and often. I will watch the team hoping for loses, then hit the HFSens forum and slam the team from top to bottom, to make myself feel less angry.

I will argue with, and insult, any pseudo-Sens fans who argue in defence of the team in any way, especially those who actually support the team by attending games. Those guys are part of the problem, and I wish they would shut up and just let me shout my opinions in peace.

I don’t spend a dime on the team, and it provides me nothing but misery, but I super duper dog swear that I will spend thousands of dollars on seasons tickets as soon as the owner succumbs to my financial boycott and sells the team. Promise.

In the mean time I will continue to complain about everything Sens related, instead of trying to find nuggets of positivity in something I profess to love because Melnyk has made me this way.

Sincerely,

Sens Fan.

I've never understood the mindset of the boycott crowd. Heck, I know a guy who hasn't been to a game since the lockout. He claims to be so mad at the owners and players that he won't give them any of his money, etc. That's his choice, obviously, but as a hockey fan he is depriving himself of some joy in this life of ours, and his boycott has all of the effect of a water gun on a forest fire.

Do I love the owner? God no. Do I wish he would sell today? Absolutely. The truth is, though, that I love hockey and love Ottawa, and don't really feel like making myself miserable just to try to make a point. Therefore, I go to games, buy (way too much) merchandise, etc., because I know that Melnyk's decision to sell or not is largely out of my hands. I spend very little time worrying about it and just focus on the team on the ice instead. It's actually quite liberating.

 

[Ice-Tray]

One of the realities is that, in hindsight, the CTC is a bit too big for this market. A building of 16k or so would be better suited for Ottawa. Right now, capacity at the CTC is 18,600 IIRC, and even that is down from the near 20,000 that used to be there before building the additional lounges, viewing plazas, etc. That's where sports is going, and when we get our new building (which we will get eventually) you'll see a smaller building with more of those viewing areas. (Most popular spots at the REDBLACKS games are the areas in the two end zones where people can mill around with their beer and watch the game at the same time.)

It's not going to all turn around overnight due to the accumulation of ill will, but the reality is that winning fixes everything - always has, always will. If this team picks it up next year and can stay on the fringes of the wildcard race, I guarantee that average attendance will tick up into the 14k area. Not great, but better. Put Lafreniere on the roster (21% chance, I know, but possible) and you can goose that up even further. Get to 15k or so the year after, and this franchise is back on stable ground. A sold out building would be great, but given the nice national TV and local broadcasting money Canadian franchises get, the Sens don't need to totally sell out that building every night - 15k to 16k would work just fine, along with better local sponsorship numbers.

So true. I’m taking my wife and a bunch of friends out to a Royals game tonight for her birthday celebration, and we always get ‘club seats’.

It’s two sections in the middle that has its own lounge area, bathrooms, bar & food counter, so you don’t have to go out into the concourse to reload or off load.

$30 a ticket to those sections, over $20-25 for other comparable ice level seats.

It’s really nice to have that convenience, and the milling about area her you can hang with other people.

 

[GCK]

an apology won’t do anything anymore, so at least one thing you said there is accurate.

Well Melnyk will never apologize so it doesn’t matter.

 

[GCK]

Melnyk has no money to move the team, nor would he be willing to move somewhere where he doesn't own the building.

This is a huge assumption. Many teams don’t own their building, Katz doesn’t own the building in Edmonton, the Flames won’t own the new building in Calgary. It’s about maximizing revenues and that can be done with a great lease deal. The Houston Arena owner wants an NHL tenant but doesn’t want to own a team. A lease deal that, for arguments sake, triples game day revenues along with the city/county covering the relocation fee makes sense. Melnyk could then additionally sell off his Ottawa real estate holdings for close to the teams overall debt. My understanding is TSN would not object, in fact they would jump at the opportunity, to annulling their existing broadcast contract.