All-Purpose Attendance Thread - Part II

[Senovision]

We lose "our house:"whenever Toronto comes to town and when Montreal comes . This has been happening for several years.

 

[DrEasy]

Hate the guy all you want, but he is right about one thing: paying the biggest payroll means shit. The Leafs down the road are a joke, the Habs are even worse off now.

The Sens have had lots of success playing their money well for a small market team ...under a cheap owner.

They had "success" (playoff bubble team) for a while with a relatively smaller payroll, but it wasn't salary-floor level like it is now, and it was with a professional front office, with Murray and co running the team in a competent (let's say above average) and classy way.

I would have no problem with a team running on a small payroll, but with a really smart and forward-thinking front office. It would be great to troll the leafs with half the payroll.

You could replace Hainsey's salary with a fully-formed front office, an army of scouts you'd send to every corner of Europe and an army of data analysts looking for the next market inefficiency.

If this team was run like the Oakland A's I'd be proud of supporting a low-payroll team. Right now I'm mostly ashamed and embarrassed supporting this team.

 

[inthewings]

They had "success" (playoff bubble team) for a while with a relatively smaller payroll, but it wasn't salary-floor level like it is now, and it was with a professional front office, with Murray and co running the team in a competent (let's say above average) and classy way.

I would have no problem with a team running on a small payroll, but with a really smart and forward-thinking front office. It would be great to troll the leafs with half the payroll.

You could replace Hainsey's salary with a fully-formed front office, an army of scouts you'd send to every corner of Europe and an army of data analysts looking for the next market inefficiency.

If this team was run like the Oakland A's I'd be proud of supporting a low-payroll team. Right now I'm mostly ashamed and embarrassed supporting this team.

Yes. I've been saying this for years now, but you can compete without a high payroll. We saw the Marshall Johnston-era Senators do it in a non-cap league, and the Predators have been a model franchise for over a decade now.

The problem, if you can't outspend most other teams, is that you have to outcompete them somewhere else (and probably in multiple other areas): elite coaching, elite analytics department, elite management, elite scouting. For the most part, all of these things require financial investment, and leadership from ownership down.

I'm 100% fine with an Ottawa team that can't pay massive bonuses, can't bury contracts in the NHL, and can't spend right up to the cap. But the trade off absolutely has to be that the team isn't the lowest spender in the league, and that they have a solid infrastructure in place from the President and CEO down through the front offices and caching staff. Maybe we'll lose the odd 5M player that most other teams can afford, but spend some of that on a robust analytics and coaching staff.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes. I've been saying this for years now, but you can compete without a high payroll. We saw the Marshall Johnston-era Senators do it in a non-cap league, and the Predators have been a model franchise for over a decade now...

Non-cap league being the key, not so much because of the cap, but because of the changes to RFA that came along with it. You had control over a player into their 30s back then, moving the threshold of turning UFA to 7 years would have made Johnston's job far more difficult.

 

[coladin]

I had seasons tickets in the alcohol free Coca-Cola zone while I was making 15 bucks an hour with a dead end job making counter tops while driving a rusted out Pontiac. Literally all of my entertainment dollars went to the Sens, and the owner has the audacity to call out the fans. I'm still bitter about that game. Jokes on him though, now I can pull six figures no problem and won't spend a dime on his team.

See, this what I don’t get. How in any shape or form is he calling you out? Is he not, rightfully, calling out those who are NOT like you?

Like, I never got offended from the December 2017 rant because I knew he wasn’t talking about me (or you). Was he mad that I didn’t upgrade to a whole season instead of my half season lol? But I knew how the city would react, and sadly, how many great fans misconstrued the comments

 

[Upgrayedd]

See, this what I don’t get. How in any shape or form is he calling you out? Is he not, rightfully, calling out those who are NOT like you?

Like, I never got offended from the December 2017 rant because I knew he wasn’t talking about me (or you). Was he mad that I didn’t upgrade to a whole season instead of my half season lol? But I knew how the city would react, and sadly, how many great fans misconstrued the comments

I assume you have since that time though, right? I didn't take his rant personally but found it beyond stupid, obviously poorly timed, not accepting rightful blame and frankly unhinged and a bit sad.

 

[Raze The Stray]

See, this what I don’t get. How in any shape or form is he calling you out? Is he not, rightfully, calling out those who are NOT like you?

Like, I never got offended from the December 2017 rant because I knew he wasn’t talking about me (or you). Was he mad that I didn’t upgrade to a whole season instead of my half season lol? But I knew how the city would react, and sadly, how many great fans misconstrued the comments

So he didn't use that game as his own platform to threaten everyone? Sure f***in seemed that way to me. Kinda like the casino shitfit.

This wasn't a single incident, that snowball was all ready rolling and he gave it another good shove at a terrible time. Like I said, I've mostly moved past it, I enjoy the live game too much. It is intellectually dishonest to take that stance though. This team isn't entitled to everyone's income solely for existing, and less so when the fans are embarrassed on the national stage. He's reaping what he's sewn, and hopefully he learned from it.

 

[coladin]

I guess concert tickets would be the obvious one. Maybe tobacco, diamonds, gasoline? Economists might talk about it in terms of the elasticity of demand where regardless of how high they set prices, people still buy it. Superbowl tickets for $4,000! To lose money in a situation like this would be like losing money owning a casino.

But I guess we saw in the playoffs a couple years ago the limits of that elasticity for an early playoffs Rangers game. Where we are upset at the non-sellout, as if we should expect sellouts no matter the price of tickets, not even considering it a factor.

There was a time not so long ago that the Sens fans used to ridicule leaf fans for constantly showing up to support their team with sellouts when they sucked leading to the ownership not needing to find a way to win.

Concert tickets do not require the same type of commitment, but it does meet a few of the criteria which would be

1. Fandom/passion
2. Financial commitment of going to see your favorite artist
3. Purchasing of paraphenalia

I guess the only thing lacking is having this type of show on a Haley's Comet type of schedule, that is a big factor.

Cigarettes is interesting, as there is an addiction component to your team as there is cigarettes, and both are bad for you heheh, but tabacco is something that is not "entertaining, except maybe that 3am smoke outside a bar and watching two drunks fight. Gas is a need. Diamonds, no.

That was a second round game, the Rangers game. I think not filling your own barn in the second round is hugely embarrassing, but it also pointed out to the same fans going to every game, while others watched from their couch. That, to me, was the beginning of the end

 

[coladin]

We lose "our house:"whenever Toronto comes to town and when Montreal comes . This has been happening for several years.

Not to this extent, not at all. This is unprecedented. It used to be majority Ottawa, always, but the 5-7K MTL/TOR fans are very loud and obnoxious, so it always sounded more. Now, it really is the numbers , Part of it is Ottawa fans actually do not enjoy the atmosphere now, and many never did. An even house if fun, but now it is quite humiliating

 

[coladin]

I assume you have since that time though, right? I didn't take his rant personally but found it beyond stupid, obviously poorly timed, not accepting rightful blame and frankly unhinged and a bit sad.

Have had it since the building opened. I agree with everything you say, but I could never understand how the people that were going were offended to the point they stopped going. He was talking about us

 

[BatherSeason]

That was a second round game, the Rangers game. I think not filling your own barn in the second round is hugely embarrassing, but it also pointed out to the same fans going to every game, while others watched from their couch. That, to me, was the beginning of the end

Weren't there multiple unfilled buildings last year in the playoffs? No, I am not looking for numbers, this argument has already played out multiple times. This is not an Ottawa only problem, there must be bad fans across North America.

 

[coladin]

So he didn't use that game as his own platform to threaten everyone? Sure f*ckin seemed that way to me. Kinda like the casino shitfit.

This wasn't a single incident, that snowball was all ready rolling and he gave it another good shove at a terrible time. Like I said, I've mostly moved past it, I enjoy the live game too much. It is intellectually dishonest to take that stance though. This team isn't entitled to everyone's income solely for existing, and less so when the fans are embarrassed on the national stage. He's reaping what he's sewn, and hopefully he learned from it.

I don't understand what you perceive as intellectually dishonest. He threatened everyone with maybe relocating if it became a disaster , which he re-iterated it wasn't at that time (although now looks like a disaster). But the ticket buying part was something that never bothered me. I agreed that more fans needs to go.

He is not entitled to our money, but if you are a fan of the team, I have always felt you should support the team by going to games. One cannot expect that the team will always be good, and you have to ride out the bad times as well, which conveniently gets into the way of the more intellectually dishonest argument of fans now becoming "customers' and "consumers' and the NHL being compared to movie theatres and restauarants

 

[Raze The Stray]

I don't understand what you perceive as intellectually dishonest. He threatened everyone with maybe relocating if it became a disaster , which he re-iterated it wasn't at that time (although now looks like a disaster). But the ticket buying part was something that never bothered me. I agreed that more fans needs to go.

He is not entitled to our money, but if you are a fan of the team, I have always felt you should support the team by going to games. One cannot expect that the team will always be good, and you have to ride out the bad times as well, which conveniently gets into the way of the more intellectually dishonest argument of fans now becoming "customers' and "consumers' and the NHL being compared to movie theatres and restauarants

It's intellectually dishonest to sit there going "I knew it would be misconstrued". That speech was delivered pointed. You can view it however you choose to, but there's a pretty good chance you're in the minority there for a reason. I'd wager a guess that Boro interview was intended to serve a purpose.

I don't neccessarily disagree with the assertion that fans should be buying tickets and supporting the ebbs and flows, but the context being ignored is the same reason it continues to fall on deaf ears. I don't think in the sports world anything goes beyond repair, but when you get this close to seeing it with your own eyes it's hard to ignore it might be more unique and complex than "buy tickets" or "boycott the owner". Again, I'm back to a few games, and kudos to you for sticking to it the whole time, but it is far from difficult to see why people have been keeping away. I wish people would go to more games, this fanbase is great when they're invested in it. You can't wish people into seats though, that's a luxury expense, and apparently Ottawa doesn't see much luxurious in the Sen-sphere atm.

We've been met with mostly silence lately, and I think Little has started off well. Our team is recouping the potential for a lot of talent to pass through soon. These are all much welcomed steps in the right direction. If they stay the course and avoid spectacles for a while, I think, or at least hope, we'll see some of that passion come back.

Also, as a professional musician I've definitely seen what bad products can do to an entertainment brand (yes I know)

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Thursday, February 27, 2020

Attendance 12,166 at Canadian Tire Centre

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[coladin]

It's intellectually dishonest to sit there going "I knew it would be misconstrued". That speech was delivered pointed. You can view it however you choose to, but there's a pretty good chance you're in the minority there for a reason. I'd wager a guess that Boro interview was intended to serve a purpose.

I don't neccessarily disagree with the assertion that fans should be buying tickets and supporting the ebbs and flows, but the context being ignored is the same reason it continues to fall on deaf ears. I don't think in the sports world anything goes beyond repair, but when you get this close to seeing it with your own eyes it's hard to ignore it might be more unique and complex than "buy tickets" or "boycott the owner". Again, I'm back to a few games, and kudos to you for sticking to it the whole time, but it is far from difficult to see why people have been keeping away. I wish people would go to more games, this fanbase is great when they're invested in it. You can't wish people into seats though, that's a luxury expense, and apparently Ottawa doesn't see much luxurious in the Sen-sphere atm.

We've been met with mostly silence lately, and I think Little has started off well. Our team is recouping the potential for a lot of talent to pass through soon. These are all much welcomed steps in the right direction. If they stay the course and avoid spectacles for a while, I think, or at least hope, we'll see some of that passion come back.

Also, as a professional musician I've definitely seen what bad products can do to an entertainment brand (yes I know)

That is a good answer, appreciate your point of view.

I think that nights like last night clearly show that there still is a heartbeat for this team, and the Bobby Ryan love was genuine and heartfelt. It was actually one of those nights that you just cannot predict in sports, which is why it really is the best entertainment, as you never know what can happen.

I know on Twitter people were complaining about not being there, because it is Melnyk's fault that they don't go. My point has been all along that the players who wear our city jersey are blameless, and Bobby last night was a great example to that and how it is critical that the fans try and separate the owner from the players...because nights like last night are as memorable as they come

 

[Dingle]

I know on Twitter people were complaining about not being there, because it is Melnyk's fault that they don't go. My point has been all along that the players who wear our city jersey are blameless, and Bobby last night was a great example to that and how it is critical that the fans try and separate the owner from the players...

I am not sure that the issue is just limited to Melnyk. yes, he antagonized the fan base, and did so at the poorest time.

But, we seem to be dismissing the 3 seasons now of near bottom. They will by season's end, finish at around 72-75 points. Accounting for the 69 and 64 previous, the Sens will join Edmonton in this dubious position. They will finish tied with Edmonton as the teams to have 3 such low point generating seasons in a row.

Why is it unreasonable to believe that a fair amount of fans are saying "wake me up when you get better". I don't care how big a die-hard you may be, chronic losing can wear on you.

So two major issues, potentially compounded by a third, which is; forward projection. One where there is serious concern for next season. And the 12 000 plus fans, are reasonable.

I cannot figure out why a smart man like Eugene, does not simply fall on his sword And apologize. Heck, cross your fingers behind your back as you do it...Fake sincerity.
I cannot figure out why they don't reach out more. The new CEO comes in, give a hint of "well we did things wrong" and has disappeared...where is the public relations blitz? Where is the blitz to woo fans back?
This is a time to Shake hands and kiss babies..a time to go in Oprah mode...Dr. Phil... "I feel your pain". Again, even if it is not sincere. We won't know the difference..

While I am so happy for Bobby Ryan, I would have been so much happier if that hat-trick was by Norris, Batherson, White, Tkachuk, etc.

yesterday's game started out with a grand total of 75 goals for, by Ottawa players!

 

[Upgrayedd]

I am not sure that the issue is just limited to Melnyk. yes, he antagonized the fan base, and did so at the poorest time.

But, we seem to be dismissing the 3 seasons now of near bottom. They will by season's end, finish at around 72-75 points. Accounting for the 69 and 64 previous, the Sens will join Edmonton in this dubious position. They will finish tied with Edmonton as the teams to have 3 such low point generating seasons in a row.

Why is it unreasonable to believe that a fair amount of fans are saying "wake me up when you get better". I don't care how big a die-hard you may be, chronic losing can wear on you.

So two major issues, potentially compounded by a third, which is; forward projection. One where there is serious concern for next season. And the 12 000 plus fans, are reasonable.

I cannot figure out why a smart man like Eugene, does not simply fall on his sword And apologize. Heck, cross your fingers behind your back as you do it...Fake sincerity.
I cannot figure out why they don't reach out more. The new CEO comes in, give a hint of "well we did things wrong" and has disappeared...where is the public relations blitz? Where is the blitz to woo fans back?
This is a time to Shake hands and kiss babies..a time to go in Oprah mode...Dr. Phil... "I feel your pain". Again, even if it is not sincere. We won't know the difference..

While I am so happy for Bobby Ryan, I would have been so much happier if that hat-trick was by Norris, Batherson, White, Tkachuk, etc.

yesterday's game started out with a grand total of 75 goals for, by Ottawa players!

I too find the tactic they/he took was beyond bizarre, everyone in the public eye basically seems to lie virtually at all times right now and nobody seems to mind so that is certainly the route I too would go, I understand most owners are so incredibly ego centric but typically they can push aside their egos for the chance at more $$$$, it's either sheer ineptitude or stubbornness in my eyes. Maybe he is following the new wave of mainly politicians who don't really even bother to lie anymore and insult their audiences and brag about their criminality and their bases just eat it up and love it regardless!?!?

 

[JD1]

Thursday, February 27, 2020

Attendance 12,166 at Canadian Tire Centre

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is such a unique market. There's no way there was 10,000 Sens fans in the rink last night which is to say that there was at least 2,166 canucks fans. And it's like that every game. I couldn't believe how many Arizona jerseys i saw last week. Ari freaking zona. If i had to guess, I'd say we average 2,500 fans a night from the other team. This is a strong market that way, lots of hockey fans. We just need more Sens fans

 

[JD1]

I gotta say, I'm with @coladin on the Melnyk outdoor game speech.

I thought what he said should not have been said and if it was going to be said, definitely not on that night. But i wasn't offended by it. For all intents and purposes there was a lot of truth in what he said, regardless of how ill timed it was. And i know i spent a lot of money on tickets during that ecf run.

 

[GrantLemons]

I am not sure that the issue is just limited to Melnyk. yes, he antagonized the fan base, and did so at the poorest time.

But, we seem to be dismissing the 3 seasons now of near bottom. They will by season's end, finish at around 72-75 points. Accounting for the 69 and 64 previous, the Sens will join Edmonton in this dubious position. They will finish tied with Edmonton as the teams to have 3 such low point generating seasons in a row.

Why is it unreasonable to believe that a fair amount of fans are saying "wake me up when you get better". I don't care how big a die-hard you may be, chronic losing can wear on you.

So two major issues, potentially compounded by a third, which is; forward projection. One where there is serious concern for next season. And the 12 000 plus fans, are reasonable.

I cannot figure out why a smart man like Eugene, does not simply fall on his sword And apologize. Heck, cross your fingers behind your back as you do it...Fake sincerity.
I cannot figure out why they don't reach out more. The new CEO comes in, give a hint of "well we did things wrong" and has disappeared...where is the public relations blitz? Where is the blitz to woo fans back?
This is a time to Shake hands and kiss babies..a time to go in Oprah mode...Dr. Phil... "I feel your pain". Again, even if it is not sincere. We won't know the difference..

While I am so happy for Bobby Ryan, I would have been so much happier if that hat-trick was by Norris, Batherson, White, Tkachuk, etc.

yesterday's game started out with a grand total of 75 goals for, by Ottawa players!

Surprised you could write that without spitting out your drink.

Don't kid yourself, the guy is an idiot. Being rich doesn't automatically make you "smart".

 

[Wondercarrot]

I’m not with Coladin or JDI on Melnyks outdoor game rant.
Context is everything and that is simply a point in time of many where the owner has acted like a buffoon alienated fans in a small market.
Nothing is a secret in this town, he treats staff like crap, he alienated very popular community leaders both on his payroll and in business community, he alienated the most popular player in team history (twice), he navigated a downtown arena deal into ditch, he cut front office staff and hockey staff to the bone years ago, etc etc etc. He’s a drunken slob who squandered the goodwill of a city where he was given a liver to save his life - do you know how hard that is to do?!
And all he ever really has ever had to do (as someone previously mentioned) is apologize and he can’t even do that.
I love this team, I love the way they play, I love how hard they work, and sky is the limit in coming years - I had tickets since day 1 of the franchise but I just truly detest that jackass & can’t bring myself to give him a cent.
I may break next year but I’ll tell you right now if this team was sold I’d buy all my tickets back that day. There are thousands of me out there, if this team sold I’d feel comfortable guaranteeing over 17k a night next year and capacity crowd for years to come.

 

[JimmySpaetzle]

Surprised you could write that without spitting out your drink.

Don't kid yourself, the guy is an idiot. Being rich doesn't automatically make you "smart".

I think he’s a smart dude, just a loose cannon and can’t accept that he’s failed and should move on

 

[JD1]

I’m not with Coladin or JDI on Melnyks outdoor game rant.
Context is everything and that is simply a point in time of many where the owner has acted like a buffoon alienated fans in a small market.
Nothing is a secret in this town, he treats staff like crap, he alienated very popular community leaders both on his payroll and in business community, he alienated the most popular player in team history (twice), he navigated a downtown arena deal into ditch, he cut front office staff and hockey staff to the bone years ago, etc etc etc. He’s a drunken slob who squandered the goodwill of a city where he was given a liver to save his life - do you know how hard that is to do?!
And all he ever really has ever had to do (as someone previously mentioned) is apologize and he can’t even do that.
I love this team, I love the way they play, I love how hard they work, and sky is the limit in coming years - I had tickets since day 1 of the franchise but I just truly detest that jackass & can’t bring myself to give him a cent.
I may break next year but I’ll tell you right now if this team was sold I’d buy all my tickets back that day. There are thousands of me out there, if this team sold I’d feel comfortable guaranteeing over 17k a night next year and capacity crowd for years to come.

Ya he certainly did most of what you're saying but I'll respectfully disagree on the lebreton bit

But i wasn't saying the man is a saint. I just found his bit on tickets sales rang true. Not enough bums in seats. Not enough money per bum. It costs money to play in the big leagues and the nhl from a money point of view has arrived in the big leagues

Hopefully he sells and the fanbase responds

 

[JD1]

Surprised you could write that without spitting out your drink.

Don't kid yourself, the guy is an idiot. Being rich doesn't automatically make you "smart".

Define idiot.

He's an ass. A jerk. He's all kinds of not nice things rolled in to one

But not smart....no, i don't think so

 

[coladin]

I am not sure that the issue is just limited to Melnyk. yes, he antagonized the fan base, and did so at the poorest time.

But, we seem to be dismissing the 3 seasons now of near bottom. They will by season's end, finish at around 72-75 points. Accounting for the 69 and 64 previous, the Sens will join Edmonton in this dubious position. They will finish tied with Edmonton as the teams to have 3 such low point generating seasons in a row.

Why is it unreasonable to believe that a fair amount of fans are saying "wake me up when you get better". I don't care how big a die-hard you may be, chronic losing can wear on you.

So two major issues, potentially compounded by a third, which is; forward projection. One where there is serious concern for next season. And the 12 000 plus fans, are reasonable.

I cannot figure out why a smart man like Eugene, does not simply fall on his sword And apologize. Heck, cross your fingers behind your back as you do it...Fake sincerity.
I cannot figure out why they don't reach out more. The new CEO comes in, give a hint of "well we did things wrong" and has disappeared...where is the public relations blitz? Where is the blitz to woo fans back?
This is a time to Shake hands and kiss babies..a time to go in Oprah mode...Dr. Phil... "I feel your pain". Again, even if it is not sincere. We won't know the difference..

While I am so happy for Bobby Ryan, I would have been so much happier if that hat-trick was by Norris, Batherson, White, Tkachuk, etc.

yesterday's game started out with a grand total of 75 goals for, by Ottawa players!

An apology by Melnyk will do jack shit. That is not what people want around here or elsewhere. Yeah, there are some down seasons, while many find it as a justifiable reason to ditch their team and come back when things get better, I find it equally a rallying point to display what kind of fans we actually have here in Ottawa.

And I think the hockey world got their answer