Post-Game Talk: All I do is pass pass pass no matter what even w/an empty net I won't ever get a shot

[PensPlz]

There are people on this board who hated the Kessel trade before it ever happened. These people will mysteriously not post when he gets hot, but they'll flood threads when he's cold. They don't want Kessel to be better, they just want to be able to ***** about how soft he is.

To be fair, has he been "hot" on the penguins at all this year?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I'll apply my opinion on the board's reaction to Crosby to Kessel. There's legitimate criticisms and then what some people here devolve into.

btw, Crosby was a ****** leader who was done as a player, let's trade him while we can! But, we see some here gleefully do that with Crosby every season.

 

[#66]

To be fair, has he been "hot" on the penguins at all this year?

Yeah... Thats a post with Kessel colored shades on.

Kessel has scored in sixteen games this year. Sixteen.... And yes I spelled it out twice.

Fully on the Kessel hate train... My cars go back to when he was drafted. I dont think hes a bad teammate or bad person... I just hate the way he plays hockey.

 

[Shaftception]

Regarding kessel as a potential problem going forward, there's probably some logic in the belief he might convert a few more of those hit posts, flubbed shots, and missed empty-nets in the future if he's a bit luckier than he has been thus far. Managing to find himself in those situations to begin with is a good sign that with his history of goal scoring he could in theory convert on those at a better rate at some point.

I personally couldn't care less about his perceived softness along the boards or in corners, this team hasn't had a grind *****es down mentality in a long while, and even when they did sykora still found a way to contribute adequately. Speaking of softness, pay close attention to ovechkin from time to time, specifically how long he actually carries the puck or holds it along the boards before either passing or shooting, it's not very long. His physical reputation comes from his propensity to level unsuspecting opponents who don't see him coming, otherwise he avoids physical punishments as much as any other player. This undoubtedly contributes to his ability to stay healthy comparatively to a crosby or malkin, who because of being center's and driving the play for their lines take far more unavoidable physical abuse simply from fending off defenders as they're carrying the puck around the ice trying to find lanes to distribute it to their wingers.

Ovechkin being the finisher on his line is the intended destination of the play, not the source, and thus isn't put into position to absorb hits that he's not prepared for all that often. Kessel is similar in this way, he stays as healthy as he does because he avoids unecessary risk, thus even though he is a good playmaking winger, he shouldn't be the one dictating the play for his line all that often outside of off the rush chances, as he's not going to body off a defender to maintain control of the puck or be the one digging in corners to maintain possession. As such they need to play him with linemates who can and excel at it to make up for that.

This is where my only real concern with him originates from, which is his complete inability to one-time a shot or wield anything resembling a hard slap shot. The way this team has operated for years is running plays through crosby and malkin and needing the recipients of their passes to be able to quickly convert on the chances they're given from the defense focusing on the center's. Kunitz before he slowed down and especially Neal excelled at this with their quick and accurate releases. With kessel thus far he's been wholly incompetent at quickly getting rid of the puck once given it in high scoring chance areas because of his inability to cleanly shoot the puck without first corralling it, which wastes precious seconds where the goalie or defense can get in position to stop it.

Whether it's because of his stick or refusal to adapt to a new play style, that aspect of his game might not get better in the future. Which means if they're going to get as much value out of him as they hoped, their offensive philosophy as a team, specifically that of crosby and malkin might need to be the things that change to adapt to him. If that's not feasible or acceptable, I see no issue with believing he's a bad fit here and his cap could be better spent elsewhere, which has nothing to do with feeling he's lazy, fat, etc. They're far past the point of being good enough to compensate for hurt feelings, scuderi was the first step in the right direction, kunitz should be the next, and if kessel ends up requiring the same treatment at some point, so be it.

 

[plaidchuck]

Yeah I was told how perron was going to explode, yet here we are.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

My favorite argument people make is that Kessel "has failed to mesh with Crosby and Malkin" as if he and Crosby have been given much of a chance to play together.

Then you call them out on that logic and they respond by saying that Kessel and Crosby definitely wouldn't work together because reasons.

 

[Hossa die Waldfee]

Yeah I was told how perron was going to explode, yet here we are.

Well Perron exploded. It just happened in Anaheim.

 

[Coastal Kev]

There are people on this board who hated the Kessel trade before it ever happened. These people will mysteriously not post when he gets hot, but they'll flood threads when he's cold. They don't want Kessel to be better, they just want to be able to ***** about how soft he is.

He is soft, softer and softest.. for the win.

 

[IcedCapp]

David Perron before arriving in Pittsburgh

57 in 78
19 in 38 (trade)

David Perron after being traded to Anaheim

19 in 25

The only anomaly in his career in Pittsburgh. He's produced everywhere else.

 

[Shaftception]

My favorite argument people make is that Kessel "has failed to mesh with Crosby and Malkin" as if he and Crosby have been given much of a chance to play together.

Then you call them out on that logic and they respond by saying that Kessel and Crosby definitely wouldn't work together because reasons.

It's because malkin's the favorite player of certain members with large post counts, shouldn't be hard to figure out which, who dictate the vast majority of discussion on this board when they're present.

Has nothing to do with it being an accurate belief or not, the fact every early season game thread was dominated by complaining about kessel not playing with malkin instead of the real problem which was johnston should be proof enough of that.

 

[#66]

Regarding kessel as a potential problem going forward, there's probably some logic in the belief he might convert a few more of those hit posts, flubbed shots, and missed empty-nets in the future if he's a bit luckier than he has been thus far. Managing to find himself in those situations to begin with is a good sign that with his history of goal scoring he could in theory convert on those at a better rate at some point.

I personally couldn't care less about his perceived softness along the boards or in corners, this team hasn't had a grind *****es down mentality in a long while, and even when they did sykora still found a way to contribute adequately. Speaking of softness, pay close attention to ovechkin from time to time, specifically how long he actually carries the puck or holds it along the boards before either passing or shooting, it's not very long. His physical reputation comes from his propensity to level unsuspecting opponents who don't see him coming, otherwise he avoids physical punishments as much as any other player. This undoubtedly contributes to his ability to stay healthy comparatively to a crosby or malkin, who because of being center's and driving the play for their lines take far more unavoidable physical abuse simply from fending off defenders as they're carrying the puck around the ice trying to find lanes to distribute it to their wingers.

Ovechkin being the finisher on his line is the intended destination of the play, not the source, and thus isn't put into position to absorb hits that he's not prepared for all that often. Kessel is similar in this way, he stays as healthy as he does because he avoids unecessary risk, thus even though he is a good playmaking winger, he shouldn't be the one dictating the play for his line all that often outside of off the rush chances, as he's not going to body off a defender to maintain control of the puck or be the one digging in corners to maintain possession. As such they need to play him with linemates who can and excel at it to make up for that.

This is where my only real concern with him originates from, which is his complete inability to one-time a shot or wield anything resembling a hard slap shot. The way this team has operated for years is running plays through crosby and malkin and needing the recipients of their passes to be able to quickly convert on the chances they're given from the defense focusing on the center's. Kunitz before he slowed down and especially Neal excelled at this with their quick and accurate releases. With kessel thus far he's been wholly incompetent at quickly getting rid of the puck once given it in high scoring chance areas because of his inability to cleanly shoot the puck without first corralling it, which wastes precious seconds where the goalie or defense can get in position to stop it.

Whether it's because of his stick or refusal to adapt to a new play style, that aspect of his game might not get better in the future. Which means if they're going to get as much value out of him as they hoped, their offensive philosophy as a team, specifically that of crosby and malkin might need to be the things that change to adapt to him. If that's not feasible or acceptable, I see no issue with believing he's a bad fit here and his cap could be better spent elsewhere, which has nothing to do with feeling he's lazy, fat, etc. They're far past the point of being good enough to compensate for hurt feelings, scuderi was the first step in the right direction, kunitz should be the next, and if kessel ends up requiring the same treatment at some point, so be it.

No one expects him to grind or even dig along the boards. He wont even drive to the net or skate to the middle of the ice to get a better shot off.

The lack of production is one thing. That it doesnt seem to bother him gets me. At least Perron became more active and tried to help the team. Kessels just a mush... He needs to sit in the bathroom with coffee cake and Frankie the Whale.

 

[plaidchuck]

David Perron before arriving in Pittsburgh

57 in 78
19 in 38 (trade)

David Perron after being traded to Anaheim

19 in 25

The only anomaly in his career in Pittsburgh. He's produced everywhere else.

So Pittsburgh is where good careers go to die. Still doesn't make me feel any better.

 

[tom_servo]

Guess I'm rolling with the sad crew on this one.

I'm Stan.

 

[clefty]

Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

It's been a disruptive, stilted and just plain weird season. We've been kind of making things up as we go in terms of our identity and roster makeup where we only decided halfway through the season in January that we want to be a skaters-only team, and all other candidates need not apply. The net result is that nobody who was here at the beginning of the season has had a good year really, save for maybe one or two guys. Fleury, for instance.

I just want a solid, drama free offseason with a distinct plan and to come into training camp with stability and an crystal clear outline of how we want to play. If after that Kessel is still lacking, then there's greater cause for concern. For now, I mean he could go on a hot streak tomorrow and still end up with 60 points on the season. I'd like more production like anyone else, but he hasn't been a disaster or anything.

 

[cygnus47]

Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

It's been a disruptive, stilted and just plain weird season. We've been kind of making things up as we go in terms of our identity and roster makeup where we only decided halfway through the season in January that we want to be a skaters-only team, and all other candidates need not apply. The net result is that nobody who was here at the beginning of the season has had a good year really, save for maybe one or two guys. Fleury, for instance.

I just want a solid, drama free offseason with a distinct plan and to come into training camp with stability and an crystal clear outline of how we want to play. If after that Kessel is still lacking, then there's greater cause for concern. For now, I mean he could go on a hot streak tomorrow and still end up with 60 points on the season. I'd like more production like anyone else, but he hasn't been a disaster or anything.

Agreed.

 

[tom_servo]

Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

It's been a disruptive, stilted and just plain weird season. We've been kind of making things up as we go in terms of our identity and roster makeup where we only decided halfway through the season in January that we want to be a skaters-only team, and all other candidates need not apply. The net result is that nobody who was here at the beginning of the season has had a good year really, save for maybe one or two guys. Fleury, for instance.

I just want a solid, drama free offseason with a distinct plan and to come into training camp with stability and an crystal clear outline of how we want to play. If after that Kessel is still lacking, then there's greater cause for concern. For now, I mean he could go on a hot streak tomorrow and still end up with 60 points on the season. I'd like more production like anyone else, but he hasn't been a disaster or anything.

Hm. Very rational opinion. I'll show you the door.

 

[#66]

Lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

It's been a disruptive, stilted and just plain weird season. We've been kind of making things up as we go in terms of our identity and roster makeup where we only decided halfway through the season in January that we want to be a skaters-only team, and all other candidates need not apply. The net result is that nobody who was here at the beginning of the season has had a good year really, save for maybe one or two guys. Fleury, for instance.

I just want a solid, drama free offseason with a distinct plan and to come into training camp with stability and an crystal clear outline of how we want to play. If after that Kessel is still lacking, then there's greater cause for concern. For now, I mean he could go on a hot streak tomorrow and still end up with 60 points on the season. I'd like more production like anyone else, but he hasn't been a disaster or anything.

And what if after a 2nd season like this his trade value lessens. You dont take the Maple Leafs cancer and expect it to correct your team. He was pretty much given away for a reason.

This year was the year he could have proved everyone wrong... And he didnt. Forget the production... He didnt even show up in shape. He's not changing.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Man, I sure am glad we traded Sergei Gonchar after his horrific 2005-2006 when his value was at the absolute lowest possible value. Not like he helped anyone in the next few years while he was setting career highs in points and finishing in the top 5 Norris finalists.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

I'd love Kessel if he'd just compete for the puck a little bit. It's ridiculous how afraid he is and fast he gives up. If I saw myself looking like that on film I'd never let it happen again.

 

[HandshakeLine]

And what if after a 2nd season like this his trade value lessens. You dont take the Maple Leafs cancer and expect it to correct your team. He was pretty much given away for a reason.

This year was the year he could have proved everyone wrong... And he didnt. Forget the production... He didnt even show up in shape. He's not changing.

That is a pants-******** panic move and I hope to god you're not a poker player or a day trader.

 

[#66]

That is a pants-******** panic move and I hope to god you're not a poker player or a day trader.

Nope and I can tell you havent played much hockey beyond gym class. The guy has his rep around the league for a reason. The sad thing is he doesnt seem to care.

Kessel would need to be a 45 goal, 90 point player to excuse his warts. Hes literally that bad.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I'd love Kessel if he'd just compete for the puck a little bit. It's ridiculous how afraid he is and fast he gives up. If I saw myself looking like that on film I'd never let it happen again.

My favorite is when he turns 60-40 races in his favor to 50-50 ones.

Watch next time there's a race for the puck in the corner. Instead of getting there first, where the defender may get there a second later and smash him, he subtly slows down the way a defenseman might to get an icing called. This way he can just wave at the puck with his stick instead of taking any contact. I hate that ****.

But Humungus is right. His impotence from the left side of the ice is disconcerting.

 

[Greeneye]

To be fair the Pens main reason for getting Kessel was so he could draw attention away from 87/71 in the playoffs right? We'll have to see if that happens. I was ecstatic when the Pens acquired him and I've been thoroughly underwhelmed with his performance this season. I knew he was soft but I thought he might compete a little bit. He gives up on every 50/50 puck, not sure I've ever seen another nhl player do that. Hopefully he can regain his form or at least be a decoy in the playoffs. Time will tell.

 

[Greeneye]

My favorite is when he turns 60-40 races in his favor to 50-50 ones.

Watch next time there's a race for the puck in the corner. Instead of getting there first, where the defender may get there a second later and smash him, he subtly slows down the way a defenseman might to get an icing called. This way he can just wave at the puck with his stick instead of taking any contact. I hate that ****.

But Humungus is right. His impotence from the left side of the ice is disconcerting.

I've noticed this as well. I'd think that would grate on his teammates. You go out and bust your ass every shift and then you see Kessel not even try, yeah that would piss me off. But if he was scoring goals like most of us thought he would that would be forgiven. Pens are in deep s if he doesnt turn it around.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

My favorite is when he turns 60-40 races in his favor to 50-50 ones.

Watch next time there's a race for the puck in the corner. Instead of getting there first, where the defender may get there a second later and smash him, he subtly slows down the way a defenseman might to get an icing called. This way he can just wave at the puck with his stick instead of taking any contact. I hate that ****.

But Humungus is right. His impotence from the left side of the ice is disconcerting.

Yeah I've said before he's a good actor. Miro Satan level performance night in, night out. It's either "oops, I didn't quite get there" or "I honestly think a stick check would be best here, not lying" every time. Then he sits on the bench with his head down trying to catch his breath like he got stuck out there for three minutes in the SC Finals.