Post-Game Talk: All Good Things…

[Drivesaitl]

A system does not need to be overly complex to be effective. Vegas Golden Showers aren't playing some crazy, exotic, reinvent the wheel system (the "swarm", anyone?).
They know their responsibilities and know the appropriate flexes, switches, etc. and they execute it very well. It's not complex but it's extremely effective. That's what Struddy is saying.

Its not far from what the Islanders used to play with Al Arbour. its pretty standard Western Canada hockey, you would know about this as Clare Drake had a hand in developing these much used systems. No less than Trotz and Hitchcock also credited Clare Drake.

Amazing with all the stats machines, the analysis, etc, devising different schemes what still works 50yrs later.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Because they owned us last year, this was another important game and a loss.

I hope they (Oilers) beat them come playoffs but it’s clear to me that they don’t have it to beat Vegas. The knights play a particular way against us and it’s really effective. It’s also a super demoralizing style because I leads you to believe that you are one shot away all the time, then they get one and you seemingly never get it back.

The boys need to simplify their game against Vegas, Adin Hill won’t have a down game either, he’s just a good goalie now.

You said: "Until they beat them in the playoffs, I’m not wrong."

This means you've constructed a scenario where you are completely immune to rebuttals until or unless a specific event has come to pass.

I'm just here to tell you it works both ways. If the Oilers would have chased Hill with five goals in the first period on their way to a 10-0 win, you still would have been "right" because it didn't happen in the playoffs.

Hence, why are you even here?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Because they owned us last year, this was another important game and a loss.

I hope they (Oilers) beat them come playoffs but it’s clear to me that they don’t have it to beat Vegas. The knights play a particular way against us and it’s really effective. It’s also a super demoralizing style because I leads you to believe that you are one shot away all the time, then they get one and you seemingly never get it back.

The boys need to simplify their game against Vegas, Adin Hill won’t have a down game either, he’s just a good goalie now.

What about the important game earlier this year against Vegas that the oilers won.

This was a close game that could have gone either way, you’re in here saying the oilers didn’t even show up and got owned.

There’s a reason you’re getting so much backlash about that opinion.

 

[GOilers88]

Haven't bothered much with this thread, still a bit annoyed today.

Don't really get the shouting down "negative talk" about losing last night (aside from the usual suspect scumposting posters that are magically reappearing, I'm sure). I think it's fair to praise them for a job well done on a 16 win streak, but also feel disappointed and like it was a missed opportunity against one of the grossest and most overrated teams in the league. This one stings as a fan. Idk

I thought they played well all around. I have a hard time getting upset simply because there's no greater way to kill momentum than taking 10 days off. Such massively unfortunate timing on the All-Star break. Really feel like they would have broken the record without having to stop while they were red hot.

 

[bucks_oil]

1) By no means was Skinner great last night and I've watched the 2nd goal several times trying to deduce your take on that one. Skinner lost his posts on that play. he was actually set, and then inexplicably moved away from post giving short side. He had time, it was a bad set and not being square to shooter. I don't think he really anticipated or read the play well.

2) Now if you said Skinner played well I could see that view. I don't think he was exceptional last night. One goalie was great,

3) Nor do I fault Nurse too much on the play. Cotter who you seemed to deride is a big strong lad, maybe not talented but made an in out move that could have caught Nurse by surprise. He was then physical to puck as Knights tend to be. I mean Cotter is as strong as Nurse. Nurse just lost that battle, which is part of hockey.

4) Skinner gave up short side on the goal. harder to defend that error jmo.

5) Even on the first goal Adin Hill faced several instances like that and held the fort. We gave Vegas 5 scoring chances and they got two goals and hit two posts. Do the math. Thats with the Oilers almost perfectly limiting chances against.

6) Guess you didn't see Skinner misplay the puck a few times either including with minutes left in the game that he got away with, that didn't cost him. Or Skinner passing the puck to the point for Vegas either on another couple plays.

1) Sorry but you are just fundamentally wrong here. I wouldn't normally pull rank here, but I'm playing three days a week (incl with recent ex-pros) and goalie coaching two other days. First, yes of course he had the short side post... as you describe "actually set" when the puck was behind the net. That's what you do. Then, when the pass comes out, he has to worry about BOTH sides of the net. If he stays hugged to the short side post, he is giving up the entire far side of the net and isn't square to the shooter or the puck. So he correctly pushes off the post toward the top of the blue paint to cut the angle. From where the shooter was, there is no way to take away all of the daylight on BOTH sides of the net. As Fuhr would say: you gotta give them something. And there wasn't much - it was a perfect shot. Maybe the televised angles are deceiving you, but from where the shooter was and where the net was, Skinner was pretty darn square. The only thing he might have done better on that shot was do a quick shoulder check prior to the pass, so that he knew exactly where the shooter was going to be... that might have let him get further out to cut the angle more, but as it were, at the moment he's turning his head to follow the pass, Ceci is coasting past him, obstructing his view (sidebar: why didn't Ceci go straight for the shooter? that would have helped take away part of the net), so he doesn't push quite as aggressively as he might normally. I would never classify that as an "error".

2) One was great and it was obvious due to his workload, he made two big errors and one small one. His defender saved him on one, he saved himself on the other. The other goalie made one small error and was punished on it, he didn't have the same workload, so of course guys like you will be quick to criticize, but scoring chances are (nearly entirely) independent of each other, so each individual event should be judged on its own ... and yes, Skinner had a couple of close calls on playing the puck (more below)

3) I agree Nurse got caught by surprise and therefore did not have (or lost) body position on the puck. So losing a battle (to a person, either outwitted, or outcompeted, or both) is more forgivable than being sniped by a puck even when you are in the right position? That puck can move faster than you can (which is mathematically true for ALL goalies) and from most shooting positions it is impossible to take away everything.Any goalie will tell you, if a guy makes his shot, he makes his shot... the art is about forcing him to be as perfect as you are. If you are both perfect, he wins... that's just the way the physics works - pucks are faster than reflexes.

4) I'm sorry but this just shows you don't understand goaltending. The whole point of angles is to be central, which in 90++% of positions there will be EQUAL room on both sides of you. That's by definition "centered on the puck". So if that is the goal, then there is no inherent difference in value of a short side vs far side goal - completely illogical notion. The only time a goalie coach would ever say "take away one side of the net" is when the puck is at or near the goal line. Skinner did that at the appropriate time on this very play, but then the pass came out to the slot... he correctly moved out and centered.

5) There were 8 high danger chances against. GAME RECAP: Golden Knights 3, Oilers 1 | Edmonton Oilers And they are all independent of each other. You judge them individually.

6) Unless it is a Mike Smith level giveaway (which these weren't) I generally care more about his play between the pipes, but fair point. My mantra here is a bit old school, but basically amounts to "do no harm, or do less". There were a couple of plays where he held the puck longer than I would like before moving it.. but it wasn't like he passed it up the middle, he rang the boards like you are meant to and it didn't connect with a teammate... this happens a few times a night for most goalies (and defenders who have two hands on the stick).

 

[DrDrai]

You said: "Until they beat them in the playoffs, I’m not wrong."

This means you've constructed a scenario where you are completely immune to rebuttals until or unless a specific event has come to pass.

I'm just here to tell you it works both ways. If the Oilers would have chased Hill with five goals in the first period on their way to a 10-0 win, you still would have been "right" because it didn't happen in the playoffs.

Hence, why are you even here?

Because they lost, had they actually won that game, one that I stated was the most important game of the regular season then I'd have a different opinion, it would've instilled confidence that they had changed their play style to compete with a Vegas team that wanted to bury them. Unfortunately there won't be another game of that magnitude till the playoffs.

It's like 90% of you can't read or understand the timeline of a post. I said that after the loss.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Because they lost, had they actually won that game, one that I stated was the most important game of the regular season then I'd have a different opinion, it would've instilled confidence that they had changed their play style to compete with a Vegas team that wanted to bury them. Unfortunately there won't be another game of that magnitude till the playoffs.

It's like 90% of you can't read or understand the timeline of a post. I said that after the loss.

Do you wonder if 90% don’t get what you’re saying it’s more of you? They’ve already beaten Vegas this year, you keep missing that point, and it was a close game.

 

[Fishy McScales]

Because they lost, had they actually won that game, one that I stated was the most important game of the regular season then I'd have a different opinion, it would've instilled confidence that they had changed their play style to compete with a Vegas team that wanted to bury them. Unfortunately there won't be another game of that magnitude till the playoffs.

It's like 90% of you can't read or understand the timeline of a post. I said that after the loss.

Sounds to me like you're moving the goalposts now, but you seem to also ignore the fact that playing better isn't a guarantee to win.

The Oilers play quite differently to how they played last spring when they were knocked out by the Knights, and last game they were easily the better team.

Like I said, that still doesn't guarantee a win, but if both teams play like that I'm comfortable saying the Oilers win around 75% of the time which in turn makes things look really promising in the context of a playoff series.

 

[Soundwave]

Sounds to me like you're moving the goalposts now, but you seem to also ignore the fact that playing better isn't a guarantee to win.

The Oilers play quite differently to how they played last spring when they were knocked out by the Knights, and last game they were easily the better team.

Like I said, that still doesn't guarantee a win, but if both teams play like that I'm comfortable saying the Oilers win around 75% of the time which in turn makes things look really promising in the context of a playoff series.

I mean they won and they didn't even have Eichel and Theodore in, that's arguably their best forward and no.1 D.

We played well defensively but we still can't score on Hill and they will be considerably better likely in the playoffs. Eichel, Theodore, they themselves will probably make an add or two at the deadline too.

 

[jesusbuiltmyhotrod]

I mean they won and they didn't even have Eichel and Theodore in, that's arguably their best forward and no.1 D.

We played well defensively but we still can't score on Hill and they will be considerably better likely in the playoffs. Eichel, Theodore, they themselves will probably make an add or two at the deadline too.

You always side with the argument against the oilers..they won but got badly outplayed that is not sustainable . Why anyone takes anythign you say seriously is puzzling. The knights are very beatable lol.

 

[SaltNPeca]

meh, flush it and get going in the next one.

too much drama and over analysis of the streak and VGK rivalry.

 

[Soundwave]

You always side with the argument against the oilers..they won but got badly outplayed that is not sustainable . Why anyone takes anythign you say seriously is puzzling. The knights are very beatable lol.

It's not like they outplayed us badly every game in the playoffs where we lost.

The problem with them is even if you "outplay" them, they don't collapse and fall apart entirely like other teams might. They continue to be a pain in the ass defensively to get clean looks and they have a quick strike ability on the offense where if you give them an inch, they'll pounce and take full advantage.

They're still doing the "throw it at Skinner's pads and get a rebound" strategy and it works over and over and over again for them for an easy goal.

Obviously too Eichel and Theodore in are going to be a massive difference if/when we have to play them in the playoffs, lets not kid ourselves.

 

[EnufAlready]

1) Sorry but you are just fundamentally wrong here. I wouldn't normally pull rank here, but I'm playing three days a week (incl with recent ex-pros) and goalie coaching two other days. First, yes of course he had the short side post... as you describe "actually set" when the puck was behind the net. That's what you do. Then, when the pass comes out, he has to worry about BOTH sides of the net. If he stays hugged to the short side post, he is giving up the entire far side of the net and isn't square to the shooter or the puck. So he correctly pushes off the post toward the top of the blue paint to cut the angle. From where the shooter was, there is no way to take away all of the daylight on BOTH sides of the net. As Fuhr would say: you gotta give them something. And there wasn't much - it was a perfect shot. Maybe the televised angles are deceiving you, but from where the shooter was and where the net was, Skinner was pretty darn square. The only thing he might have done better on that shot was do a quick shoulder check prior to the pass, so that he knew exactly where the shooter was going to be... that might have let him get further out to cut the angle more, but as it were, at the moment he's turning his head to follow the pass, Ceci is coasting past him, obstructing his view (sidebar: why didn't Ceci go straight for the shooter? that would have helped take away part of the net), so he doesn't push quite as aggressively as he might normally. I would never classify that as an "error".

2) One was great and it was obvious due to his workload, he made two big errors and one small one. His defender saved him on one, he saved himself on the other. The other goalie made one small error and was punished on it, he didn't have the same workload, so of course guys like you will be quick to criticize, but scoring chances are (nearly entirely) independent of each other, so each individual event should be judged on its own ... and yes, Skinner had a couple of close calls on playing the puck (more below)

3) I agree Nurse got caught by surprise and therefore did not have (or lost) body position on the puck. So losing a battle (to a person, either outwitted, or outcompeted, or both) is more forgivable than being sniped by a puck even when you are in the right position? That puck can move faster than you can (which is mathematically true for ALL goalies) and from most shooting positions it is impossible to take away everything.Any goalie will tell you, if a guy makes his shot, he makes his shot... the art is about forcing him to be as perfect as you are. If you are both perfect, he wins... that's just the way the physics works - pucks are faster than reflexes.

4) I'm sorry but this just shows you don't understand goaltending. The whole point of angles is to be central, which in 90++% of positions there will be EQUAL room on both sides of you. That's by definition "centered on the puck". So if that is the goal, then there is no inherent difference in value of a short side vs far side goal - completely illogical notion. The only time a goalie coach would ever say "take away one side of the net" is when the puck is at or near the goal line. Skinner did that at the appropriate time on this very play, but then the pass came out to the slot... he correctly moved out and centered.

5) There were 8 high danger chances against. GAME RECAP: Golden Knights 3, Oilers 1 | Edmonton Oilers And they are all independent of each other. You judge them individually.

6) Unless it is a Mike Smith level giveaway (which these weren't) I generally care more about his play between the pipes, but fair point. My mantra here is a bit old school, but basically amounts to "do no harm, or do less". There were a couple of plays where he held the puck longer than I would like before moving it.. but it wasn't like he passed it up the middle, he rang the boards like you are meant to and it didn't connect with a teammate... this happens a few times a night for most goalies (and defenders who have two hands on the stick).

When I coached, I knew enough to know I couldn't coach goalies and give them what they needed. Always brought out a specific coach for the tenders. Everything you said is something I heard one or more of those coaches tell their goalies at one time or another.

Excellent analysis!

Knowing much less about goaltending, my response was, Skinner played well....

 

[Arpeggio]

It's not like they outplayed us badly every game in the playoffs where we lost.

The problem with them is even if you "outplay" them, they don't collapse and fall apart entirely like other teams might. They continue to be a pain in the ass defensively to get clean looks and they have a quick strike ability on the offense where if you give them an inch, they'll pounce and take full advantage.

They're still doing the "throw it at Skinner's pads and get a rebound" strategy and it works over and over and over again for them for an easy goal.

Obviously too Eichel and Theodore in are going to be a massive difference if/when we have to play them in the playoffs, lets not kid ourselves.

lol they scored two goals, Skinner was fine.

Realistically, the Oilers dominated that game, and look like a better team than Vegas. It would've been nice to get the win, but that's why we play the game.

I have concerns about this team, but focusing on beating one team is how we ended up with a 2-9 record to start the year. As long as they continue to significantly outplay the opposition consistently, I think they'll be able to give Vegas a great series once the playoffs come around.

 

[Duke74]

Sometimes I can't help but wonder how much love a guy like Draisaitl would get if he was named Len Draper and was born in Sudbury.

Basically 4 of the 6 top six top six guys had relatively quiet games both defensively and offensively, where they pretty much did nothing and barely pissed a drop... Yet a guy that created at both ends is getting a ton of vitriol. It's... Interesting.

Particularly when that guy is also one of the league and world's most premier players.

I wonder that too. There's something about Draisaitl that attracts WAY too much hate proportional to his contributions and star status. Especially when you consider all the love that a plug like Vinnie D gets. Unfortunately, being as blue collar as Alberta is, ethnicity may have something to do with it.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I wonder that too. There's something about Draisaitl that attracts WAY too much hate proportional to his contributions and star status. Especially when you consider all the love that a plug like Vinnie D gets. Unfortunately, being as blue collar as Alberta is, ethnicity may have something to do with it.

One of those players is being paid league minimum, another is at 8.5 and takes up lots of cap space so he’s held to a higher standard.

Seems pretty obvious.

Last game Draisaitl was doing his whole slow the game down and then just getting stripped of the puck.

 

[bucks_oil]

They're still doing the "throw it at Skinner's pads and get a rebound" strategy and it works over and over and over again for them for an easy goal.

Watch that replay again.

Why did Skinner let out a rebound?

Why was Roy the one to get it?

Where was Ekholm on that play? Was he playing man, puck... or neither?

 

[Stoneman89]

What about the important game earlier this year against Vegas that the oilers won.

This was a close game that could have gone either way, you’re in here saying the oilers didn’t even show up and got owned.

There’s a reason you’re getting so much backlash about that opinion.

Logan Thompson played in that game, who is their #2. Big difference. Oilers played well both games, but the difference in result was entirely due to whom Vegas had between the pipes.

 

[mcdingdong]

Joined in March 2019 is all I need to know as well.

Hill isn’t a 5 game sample size, he’s been amazing since those playoffs. Stats are also really fun because the only one that matters in the end is the score.

Those quotes are from last years playoffs, the are very similar to things people said last night, the correlation between the two shows that the same issues still exist dating back to the playoffs.

IMO that was a must win game for the psyche of the team, not winning, regardless of the effort put forth was laying an egg. They needed to do something different to win that game and they didn’t. To ME that was the single most important game since Game 6 last year.

If the we played them today in the playoffs the “derserve-o-meter” would be 80%+ in favour of the Oilers but they would be down in the series.

What does my join date have to do with anything? Really scraping for anything you can now that several posters are calling you out for nonsensical statements. By the way, I've been lurking the board since like 2010 and finally joined up when I saw someone posting similar drivel to your own and couldn't take not saying anything, lol.

The 5 game sample I referred to is what YOU brought up originally - i.e. Oilers can't beat Vegas with Hill. Which is of course obviously more nonsense. Again, more likely than not the outcome of last night is we are up 3-4 goals going into the 3rd and folks like yourself aren't raiding the PGT dumping on the Oilers.

The comments you mined, for the most part, are things people say EVERY GAME. "McDavid should've shot that" etc. Wow, real specific to Vegas!

Must win games in February? Laying an egg is still what you're going with? Yikes.

That's obviously a possible, but unlikely, result. Which is why so many people are trying to talk you off the ledge after an early February Oilers game!

 

[Stoneman89]

Not worried about playing Vegas in the first round. IMO, if we play well, we're going to wind up meeting them sooner or later, as I think the west conference will go through them. Knock them out in the first round, breathe a sigh, and then take that game against everyone else along the way. You have to beat the best to say you're the best. Let's see what we have in us.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Not worried about playing Vegas in the first round. IMO, if we play well, we're going to wind up meeting them sooner or later, as I think the west conference will go through them. Knock them out in the first round, breathe a sigh, and then take that game against everyone else along the way. You have to beat the best to say you're the best. Let's see what we have in us.

Pretty much this, I’m done hoping for specific matchups after the Winnipeg series

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

The Oil are playing the Ducks today yes? I hope they win convincingly.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The Oil are playing the Ducks today yes? I hope they win convincingly.

Tomorrow

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

Tomorrow

Thank you.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I hate the Golden Knights. That is all.