All Encompassing Tyson Barrie Thread

[CobraAcesS]

100% agreed.

It would be nice if people could frame their arguments in this way though.

Unfortunately that’s not what happens. Having to read non-stop that our 9 game winning streak is because Barrie isn’t in the lineup is legitimately annoying and misguided.

Unless Barrie is the one who’s holding Mackinnon back from being a 172 Point player.

And Barrie is the one who’s holding Bernier back from being a .960 goalie.

Those are the numbers over this 9 game stretch.

So again, I just want to re-iterate that I’m perfectly fine with the discussion about Barrie in the lineup vs what he could return in a trade, in the lineup. (Ie Barrie vs Marner)

What I’m not fine with is being told we’re a 9-0 team without Barrie, therefore he’s expendable. There’s just so much lack of thought, analysis or even justification to argue something so simplistic. But I get that you and cobra aren’t saying this.

I just hope you guys understand that not everyone here is framing it that way.

You just have to learn to gloss over the hyperbole. (I haven't completely yet so good luck) People love to drop their hot takes right into the middle of a discussion and watch the house burn.

 

[EdAVSfan]

You just have to learn to gloss over the hyperbole. (I haven't completely yet so good luck) People love to drop their hot takes right into the middle of a discussion and watch the house burn.

I wish I had the skill for it.

I’m naturally a person who points out errors when people are talking. (Saying a word wrong, or if something is factually incorrect)

Exaggeration is one of my pet peeves. I’ll have to try to make more effort.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I wish I had the skill for it.

I’m naturally a person who points out errors when people are talking. (Saying a word wrong, or if something is factually incorrect)

Exaggeration is one of my pet peeves. I’ll have to try to make more effort.

You're not alone there

 

[Foppberg]

I wish I had the skill for it.

I’m naturally a person who points out errors when people are talking. (Saying a word wrong, or if something is factually incorrect)

Exaggeration is one of my pet peeves. I’ll have to try to make more effort.

...Dad?

 

[Pokecheque]

There's a lot of folks who think criticizing Barrie or suggesting their play has somewhat improved with better defensive balance means that he's useless, they are winning despite him or that they'd prefer Lindholm/Barberio on the team instead of him.

It's not about the win streak as a whole. Obviously things like Mack's play, Bernier, momentum have something to do with it. It's about the type of play Barrie brings and that's not judged over a nine game sample. He brings positives and negatives. He has one of the highest CA/60 on the team, he's a higher event player. This also means he creates offense in the positive direction too as we all know.

Cobra explained it pretty well that two benefits of Barrie not playing are Girard getting significant pp time and Zadorov getting more time and a bigger role in general. These are things we hope don't go away when Barrie returns. That does not mean we wish for Barrie to not return or we like seeing Lindholm in the lineup instead. It is possible they can still continue and it will require the coaches to reimagine Barrie's role a bit. I don't want to see him stuck with Nemeth and overplayed again nor give the coaches the reason to roll 7 D again. If they can add Barrie to a D that's better balanced that takes advantage of his strengths and works to mitigate his weaknesses then fantastic, we all win.

Great post and I agree wholeheartedly. And while I also agree it's super-easy to lump everyone who isn't thrilled with Barrie in the same bandwagon, some of those things you mention in your first paragraph have been posted, it's not just overreaction, though that's part of it. I'm as guilty as anyone too.

And while I absolutely have to give credit for guys like Nemeth stepping up in Barrie's absence, I don't think that'll last.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Speaking of Nemeth... I had absolutely no idea that guy was a +16 on the season.


That's absurd. And yeah +/- isn't a great stat in and of itself, the fact he's that far positive while majority of the rest of the team is much lower is quite impressive.


He's a stud Defensively. A perfect modern day Defensive Dman pretty much. It'll be interesting to see what kind of contract he gets this summer. If we could get him for 4-5 years at ~2-2.5M that'd be fantastic.

EDIT: The Scott Mayfield contract could be a solid comparable. Though I think Mayfield is on a crazy steal for the Islanders and Nemeth deserves more, but something like 4-5 years around 1.75-2.0M could be done. And I dont think it would hurt us at all.

 

[Balthazar]

Nemeth is a friggin' stud and doesn't get nearly enough credit around here. Him and Barberio are really good together and Barbs has elevated his game so much since he's playing with him. That's why I don't want Bednar to break them when Barrie comes back.

Maybe we could try Girard with Barrie again? That would be perfect if it would work.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Nemeth is a friggin' stud and doesn't get nearly enough credit around here. Him and Barberio are really good together and Barbs has elevated his game so much since he's playing with him. That's why I don't want Bednar to break them when Barrie comes back.

Maybe we could try Girard with Barrie again? That would be perfect if it would work.

I don't think I've enjoyed a single shift those two were out together.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Playing with Barb has helped Nemeth. I'm just not sure we are watching the same game sometimes. Barb has settled down a bit too with Nemeth, they are a good pair together. But the whole Nemeth has been great the whole time, what evidence is there of that? I don't worship stats myself but you can't just ignore them and say I don't believe in them, this guy has been good because I said so. Nemeth does good work on the pk and blocks shots, I get that doesn't show up in the stats. But the whole he's been a stud I'm not getting.

 

[Patagonia]

Nemeth is a friggin' stud and doesn't get nearly enough credit around here. Him and Barberio are really good together and Barbs has elevated his game so much since he's playing with him. That's why I don't want Bednar to break them when Barrie comes back.

Maybe we could try Girard with Barrie again? That would be perfect if it would work.

Don't think that would be a good idea. It'll be either Nemeth or Zadorov when Barrie returns.

 

[Balthazar]

Playing with Barb has helped Nemeth. I'm just not sure we are watching the same game sometimes. Barb has settled down a bit too with Nemeth, they are a good pair together. But the whole Nemeth has been great the whole time, what evidence is there of that? I don't worship stats myself but you can't just ignore them and say I don't believe in them, this guy has been good because I said so. Nemeth does good work on the pk and blocks shots, I get that doesn't show up in the stats. But the whole he's been a stud I'm not getting.

The eye test? He's reliable defensively and we needed that, I see him as a 25 year old Jan Hejda.

Let's be honest here you never liked him. At first he was taking someone else's spot, then it was because he was always injured, now it's the advanced stats. Come on.

 

[S E P H]

I would utterly shocked if Girard is on the first PP unit when Barrie gets back. I will also be utterly shocked if Barrie isn't back with Nemeth when he returns. Bednar is the type of coach who likes to stick to his guns, he knows that this nine game winning streak has covered the teams holes. During the post game interview, he has openly said at times that Avs haven't been the better team in some of those games (NYR, SJ). Additionally, MacKinnon is scoring at a 23% shot rate, while his second best percentage is 15%. Isn't a huge difference like Karlsson's, but I think that will drop below 20% in the long run. Jared will probably play 7 defenders, send Greer and Toninato back down and roll what he has now. I don't think you can bench Bourque after the month he's having, even if Andrighetto is healthy.

 

[Tweaky]

My opinions:

If it comes to it, sign Barrie for around $7M x 6years. Takes him to 34yo, and likely a bit of an overpay by then, but a UFA d-man that produces like he does is gonna get overpaid.

If they trade him prior, I now trust Sakic to get a decent return. Would prefer a hockey trade for a young forward with real first line talent, even if it means adding a bit depending on who it is. If it ends up being a '20 TDL trade, then we have gotten a couple playoff pushes out of him, and the kids will have gained that experience, so not worried if the return drops to a 1st and a A- prospect. Even it it ends up as a bucketful of futures this offseason, it will be a welcome addition to our pile of assets.

When he comes back from injury, I want him on the 2nd PP. And I want the pairings to be:
Girard-EJ
Zads-Barrie
Nemeth-Barbs
Lindholm-Nachos

 

[Balthazar]

I would utterly shocked if Girard is on the first PP unit when Barrie gets back. I will also be utterly shocked if Barrie isn't back with Nemeth when he returns. Bednar is the type of coach who likes to stick to his guns, he knows that this nine game winning streak has covered the teams holes. During the post game interview, he has openly said at times that Avs haven't been the better team in some of those games (NYR, SJ). Additionally, MacKinnon is scoring at a 23% shot rate, while his second best percentage is 15%. Isn't a huge difference like Karlsson's, but I think that will drop below 20% in the long run. Jared will probably play 7 defenders, send Greer and Toninato back down and roll what he has now. I don't think you can bench Bourque after the month he's having, even if Andrighetto is healthy.

Ghetto in, Yak out.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I would utterly shocked if Girard is on the first PP unit when Barrie gets back. I will also be utterly shocked if Barrie isn't back with Nemeth when he returns. Bednar is the type of coach who likes to stick to his guns, he knows that this nine game winning streak has covered the teams holes. During the post game interview, he has openly said at times that Avs haven't been the better team in some of those games (NYR, SJ). Additionally, MacKinnon is scoring at a 23% shot rate, while his second best percentage is 15%. Isn't a huge difference like Karlsson's, but I think that will drop below 20% in the long run. Jared will probably play 7 defenders, send Greer and Toninato back down and roll what he has now. I don't think you can bench Bourque after the month he's having, even if Andrighetto is healthy.

We were the better team against the Rangers, SJ was the only game where we were clearly out played. Every other game was even or the Avs dominated. Even in SJ the 5v5 shots were fairly close. SJ was the only game Bernier really had to steal IMO.

It's interesting with you sometimes how much I agree with you, and how much of a stark contrast there is between what you see and what I see.

 

[dahrougem2]

Mark Barberio.... THE Mark Barberio would be preferred by some to stick with Nemeth on the 2nd pairing when Tyson Barrie returns?

Should the Winnipeg Jets also stick Mark Scheifele at 3rd line centre when he returns just because Blake Wheeler has filled in admirably at 1C? Should the Jets make Corey Crawford their back up because Jeff Glass has filled in for him admirably? Should the Predators look to move Filip Forsberg because they haven't skipped a beat without him in the lineup? How about the Golden Knights? Clearly, they don't need Marc-Andre Fleury. The Ducks managed to stay near a playoff spot while Ryan Kesler and Cam Fowler were injured so it's not like they need them, right?

Yeah, a ton of that is sarcastic hyperbole. But it blows my mind that some posters actually believe Mark Barberio should stay on the 2nd pairing upon Tyson Barrie returning because he's had a decent 9 game stretch. Or have we forgotten the travesty that Mark Barberio was prior to Barrie getting injured?

I get that fans want to see certain players get opportunities, but if you have a better player, use him. You don't make room for Mark Barberio; you make room for Tyson Barrie.

 

[Balthazar]

Mark Barberio.... THE Mark Barberio would be preferred by some to stick with Nemeth on the 2nd pairing when Tyson Barrie returns?

If Barbs and Nemeth do stick together it's going to be on the 3rd pairing, not 2nd. Everyone knows Barrie is going to play 2nd pairing minutes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Mark Barberio.... THE Mark Barberio would be preferred by some to stick with Nemeth on the 2nd pairing when Tyson Barrie returns?

Should the Winnipeg Jets also stick Mark Scheifele at 3rd line centre when he returns just because Blake Wheeler has filled in admirably at 1C? Should the Jets make Corey Crawford their back up because Jeff Glass has filled in for him admirably? Should the Predators look to move Filip Forsberg because they haven't skipped a beat without him in the lineup? How about the Golden Knights? Clearly, they don't need Marc-Andre Fleury. The Ducks managed to stay near a playoff spot while Ryan Kesler and Cam Fowler were injured so it's not like they need them, right?

Yeah, a ton of that is sarcastic hyperbole. But it blows my mind that some posters actually believe Mark Barberio should stay on the 2nd pairing upon Tyson Barrie returning because he's had a decent 9 game stretch. Or have we forgotten the travesty that Mark Barberio was prior to Barrie getting injured?

I get that fans want to see certain players get opportunities, but if you have a better player, use him. You don't make room for Mark Barberio; you make room for Tyson Barrie.

I want Barbario and Nemeth to stay together when Barrie comes back but I didn't say anything about 2nd/3rd pairing. Barrie and Girard would likely be considered the "2nd" pairing but I'd be placing them out there strategically. Probably equal minutes as the Nemeth/Barbs pairing AS PAIRINGS, but overall Barrie will get more ice time by getting a few shifts with EJ/Nemeth here and there and things like that.

5v5 I'd like to see the ice time share broken down something like this

EJ 45%
Zadorov 36%
Barrie 34%
Nemeth 31%
Barbario 29%
Girard 25%

 

[CobraAcesS]

I want Barbario and Nemeth to stay together when Barrie comes back but I didn't say anything about 2nd/3rd pairing. Barrie and Girard would likely be considered the "2nd" pairing but I'd be placing them out there strategically. Probably equal minutes as the Nemeth/Barbs pairing AS PAIRINGS, but overall Barrie will get more ice time by getting a few shifts with EJ/Nemeth here and there and things like that.

5v5 I'd like to see the ice time share broken down something like this

EJ 45%
Zadorov 36%
Barrie 34%
Nemeth 31%
Barbario 29%
Girard 25%

Is that 45 minutes for EJ?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Is that 45 minutes for EJ?

no lol. On the ice for 45% of ES minutes played. I'd like him to play Zero PP minutes with Barrie back (Barrie on the 2nd unit if we're lucky).

I just did the math. Avs average about 47.25 minutes of even strength hockey per game. 45% of that is 21.26. Add on about 3-4 minutes ok PK time for EJ and you're looking at around 25-26 minutes per game total.

 

[CobraAcesS]

no lol. On the ice for 45% of ES minutes played. I'd like him to play Zero PP minutes with Barrie back (Barrie on the 2nd unit if we're lucky).

I was just lamenting havig to do math lol. I wonder if they'd have to spread the wealth a bit on the PP units, or if Barrie would be enough to elevate it.

 

[Foppberg]

The Barrie injury was a blessing in disguise for me. I don't want him dealt, but the showings from Girard and Z make me more comfortable for when that day potentially comes.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm glad the team did not use it as an excuse and has continued to play well. And yeah, Girard's expanded role is helping a ton.

 

[S E P H]

We were the better team against the Rangers, SJ was the only game where we were clearly out played. Every other game was even or the Avs dominated. Even in SJ the 5v5 shots were fairly close. SJ was the only game Bernier really had to steal IMO.

It's interesting with you sometimes how much I agree with you, and how much of a stark contrast there is between what you see and what I see.

I actually agree with majority of what you said, I was just including the comments made by Bednar where he thought San Jose out played them drawing 7 or so penalties. Then, how the Avs sort of fell back on the game plan against the Rangers. I'm in agreement that Avs were the better team against the Rangers, they obviously had better chances I thought. However, the Rangers battled hard and had their own chances as well. They deserved to at least tie the game and send it to OT IMHO. I thought the Avs as a group puck watched a tad too much in that game.

 

[McMetal]

I actually agree with majority of what you said, I was just including the comments made by Bednar where he thought San Jose out played them drawing 7 or so penalties. Then, how the Avs sort of fell back on the game plan against the Rangers. I'm in agreement that Avs were the better team against the Rangers, they obviously had better chances I thought. However, the Rangers battled hard and had their own chances as well. They deserved to at least tie the game and send it to OT IMHO. I thought the Avs as a group puck watched a tad too much in that game.

I think the Avs really controlled the play against the Rangers, especially up a goal in the third. Henrik was the only thing that kept the game from being 4-1 or 5-1 by the time the period was over. I was really impressed that they were able to push the play that much despite the expected push from NY.