Confirmed with Link: All contracts settled. Buyout window open for 48 hrs

[OvermanKingGainer]

The tricky thing about trading Stone is if Hanifin struggles on the middle pair (Peters used him on the 3rd in CAR) we will need to scale back and put him with a vet on the third pair. I'd rather have Hanifin-Stone than Hanifin-Andersson. But if Hanifin takes a step then Kulak has the experience to ween in Andersson on pair 3. Team probably has a similar position.

I also don't see us buying Brouwer out unless the Lindholm deal absolutely forces it. Brouwer might spend 2018-19 in Stockton and bought out the next, but no way we want his cap hit on the books til 2022

 

[JurassicTunga]

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Literally all the media reports I'm reading agree with Elias on this one Lazar.

I know.

I'm saying they're wrong.

Yes I'm aware that it makes me sound like a feminine hygiene product.

Media reports one guy saying something and it spreads like germs. If that one guy is mistaken, or if the statement is modified in the slightest, then the perception may be incorrect.

Has there been a case where a team has used this buyout window without any of their players going to arbitration after filing for it? I've looked and can't find any info one way or the other.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I know.

I'm saying they're wrong.

Yes I'm aware that it makes me sound like a feminine hygiene product.

Media reports one guy saying something and it spreads like germs. If that one guy is mistaken, or if the statement is modified in the slightest, then the perception may be incorrect.

Has there been a case where a team has used this buyout window without any of their players going to arbitration after filing for it? I've looked and can't find any info one way or the other.

I'm pretty sure there has been, but not in a position to do the necessary research for it right now.

 

[Lunatik]

No, not yet. With all due respect to sports writers, they're not subject matter experts in contract law.

This is straight from the CBA - Exhibit 1, Standard Player Contract.

(ii) For Clubs who have Club or Player elected Salary Arbitration filings pursuant to Article 12, within the forty-eight (48) hour period beginning on the third day following the later of:
(i) the Club's receipt of its last salary arbitration award; or
(ii) settlement of its last case (provided such award was received or such settlement occurred prior to 7:00 p.m. New York time; awards or settlements that occurred or were received at or after 7:00 p.m. New York time will be deemed to have occurred or received the following business day for purposes of this provision).

13(c)(i) is the standard buyout window
13(c)(ii) is the supplementary buyout window

Settlement is the key term here. It is interpreted in this section as starting/completing the arbitration process (hearing) with an award (contract noting salary, term) being granted.

Under 13(c)(ii)(ii) Arbitration being settled (through the arbitration process, naturally) means that the window opens. If there is no hearing, there is no settlement, thus the window does not open.

the arbitration process starts with the filing for arbitration, not an actual hearing.

 

[Lunatik]

Brouwer wasn't bought out before because there was no guarantee they'd land Neal/Czarnik/Ryan.

But now they're kind of pushing against the ceiling. The worst thing they could do now is bridge Hanifin (because they're too cheap/shortsighted to buyout Brouwer) and then have him break out and ask for 7M+ in two to three years (versus signing him for ~5M now for say six years).

the worst thing they could do it not bridge Hanifin and make him a UFA a year or two into him prime.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Brouwer wasn't bought out before because there was no guarantee they'd land Neal/Czarnik/Ryan.

But now they're kind of pushing against the ceiling. The worst thing they could do now is bridge Hanifin (because they're too cheap/shortsighted to buyout Brouwer) and then have him break out and ask for 7M+ in two to three years (versus signing him for ~5M now for say six years).

We can sign Hanifin for 2-3 years now, then still have him be an RFA at the end of it. Or we can sign him for 7 years now and potentially lose him as a free agent at 28. I'd rather do a 2 year now, then a 7-8 year deal that keeps him with us for almost his entire prime.

 

[Lunatik]

We can sign Hanifin for 2-3 years now, then still have him be an RFA at the end of it. Or we can sign him for 7 years now and potentially lose him as a free agent at 28. I'd rather do a 2 year now, then a 7-8 year deal that keeps him with us for almost his entire prime.

IIRC the Flames don't like to give out longer than 5 year deals and have only gone to 6 in special circumstances (Monahan, Hamilton, Giordano and most recently Neal.)

 

[CamPopplestone]

I think they may also try to make sure it's staggered. Brad seems to like making sure we don't have too many deals expiring at the same time

 

[Kahvi]

IIRC the Flames don't like to give out longer than 5 year deals and have only gone to 6 in special circumstances (Monahan, Hamilton, Giordano and most recently Neal.)

Neal was "only" 5 years

 

[Lunatik]

Neal was "only" 5 years

I knew that....

 

[Mobiandi]

Monahan, Gio, Gaudreau, Backlund were all given 6. Tkachuk will likely buck that trend and be given 7-8 if Treliving is here next offseason and decides to leverage his autonomy

 

[Ace Rimmer]

the arbitration process starts with the filing for arbitration, not an actual hearing.

Right, and the wording of the CBA states that the buyout window opens when an arbitration is settled, not when the hearing is scheduled.

If they agree to a contract prior to the hearing there is no arbitration - it is effectively cancelled.

I'll be in a better position to look up whats happened in the past and happily state I'm wrong if proven to be so.

 

[Lunatik]

Right, and the wording of the CBA states that the buyout window opens when an arbitration is settled, not when the hearing is scheduled.

If they agree to a contract prior to the hearing there is no arbitration - it is effectively cancelled.

I'll be in a better position to look up whats happened in the past and happily state I'm wrong if proven to be so.

No, it has already started, it started with the players filing, thus tt has opened. It is settled either via contract negotiation or through an arbitration settlement

 

[Anglesmith]

Under 13(c)(ii)(ii) Arbitration being settled (through the arbitration process, naturally) means that the window opens. If there is no hearing, there is no settlement, thus the window does not open.

Awards and settlements are individually noted in the rule you posted, but you are conflating them. Given we know that an award is the contract decided by the arbitrator after the hearing, a settlement must refer to the alternative.

A pending arbitration hearing has an effect on negotiations, thus negotiations and agreements reached with an arbitration hearing scheduled are considered part of the arbitration process, even if arbitration never occurs.

 

[SKRusty]

Been crunching some numbers and something is going to have to give.

Hanifin - $5.25M
Lindholm $5.25M
Jankowski $1.5M
Kulak $1.25M
Hathaway $700K
Rittich $800K
Gillies $800K

There is $15M in salary in those contracts and the Flames only have $12.8M in cap space. Somebody like Brouwer would either need to be bought out or traded.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Been crunching some numbers and something is going to have to give.

Hanifin - $5.25M
Lindholm $5.25M
Jankowski $1.5M
Kulak $1.25M
Hathaway $700K
Rittich $800K
Gillies $800K

There is $15M in salary in those contracts and the Flames only have $12.8M in cap space. Somebody like Brouwer would either need to be bought out or traded.

Due to when he's slated to be a UFA it's quite likely Hanifin gets bridged for now. He's certainly not 5.25 worth right this second.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Been crunching some numbers and something is going to have to give.

Hanifin - $5.25M
Lindholm $5.25M
Jankowski $1.5M
Kulak $1.25M
Hathaway $700K
Rittich $800K
Gillies $800K

There is $15M in salary in those contracts and the Flames only have $12.8M in cap space. Somebody like Brouwer would either need to be bought out or traded.

Figure one of the goalies will be in the minors so their cap hit won't matter. Likely Hathaway and/or Lazar ($950k) also in the minors.

There's $2.4 million, leaving $200k under the cap. Definitely tight though

Awards and settlements are individually noted in the rule you posted, but you are conflating them. Given we know that an award is the contract decided by the arbitrator after the hearing, a settlement must refer to the alternative.

A pending arbitration hearing has an effect on negotiations, thus negotiations and agreements reached with an arbitration hearing scheduled are considered part of the arbitration process, even if arbitration never occurs.

Not really as a "settlement" is usually another term to describe the result of the arbitration hearing.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

5.25 seems like an overpay. That’s what Hamilton got and I know they are accounting for salary cap inflation, but it seems expensive.

 

[Lunatik]

Not really as a "settlement" is usually another term to describe the result of the arbitration hearing.

A settlement is when the two-sides to an agreement before an arbitrator can make a decision. An arbitrators decision is a ruling.

 

[Lunatik]

5.25 seems like an overpay. That’s what Hamilton got and I know they are accounting for salary cap inflation, but it seems expensive.

Hamilton was getting 5.75

 

[CamPopplestone]

While the team doesn't like giving out the longer term deals, I think with Hanifin, you go 8 years if he will do it for 5.25. at worst that's a bit of an overpay for someone who is young and already a middle pair defender, but could end up being a great deal. If its not a long term it will be a bridge

 

[Anglesmith]

Not really as a "settlement" is usually another term to describe the result of the arbitration hearing.

Seeing as the CBA is a legal document, I don't think they would be as informal as that. A settlement in legal proceedings is out of court prior to a verdict.

 

[CraigsList]

I think we need a 2 year bridge Hanifin and give Lindholm money long term (6-7 years). Re-sign Hanifin to an 8 year deal so we can maximize 10 years with this guy. Plus, Brouwer and Frolik's contract would be done by then. Stone and Brodie would also become UFA's which would help us evaluate who we keep and who we don't.

 

[Deen]

Hanifin is the real crap shoot here. If we bridge him we might pay for it. I would rather give them both 6 years now.