All Alfredsson Discussion

[John Holmes*]

While Alfie did say it was a selfish decision, I don't believe there is anything selfish about wanting to win the cup and be paid market value. It is a competitive business and all about winning.

While I do agree the team is younger, the better part will be largely dependent on Karlsson, Cowen, Spezza & Michalek returning to form and staying healthy, Anderson repeating his 2013 heroics and the youth continuing to progress.

The names on this list suggests lots has to go right in 2013/14 for the Sens to show any significant improvement, hopefully Lady Luck will be on their side.

What is the market value of a 41 year old?

Maybe the $2 M + $2 M that Jagr signed for?

 

[LuckyPierre]

What is the market value of a 41 year old?

Maybe the $2 M + $2 M that Jagr signed for?

Jagr, the 41 year old who went goalless through four playoff rounds, and put up as many points in 22 games as Alfie did in 10.

Alfie is the better player today.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Jagr, the 41 year old who went goalless through four playoff rounds, and put up as many points in 22 games as Alfie did in 10.

Alfie is the better player today.

Teemu Selanne. 43 years old. Put up two points less than Alfredsson. Made $4.5M.

The $4M offer was hardly a lowball.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Teemu Selanne. 43 years old. Put up two points less than Alfredsson. Made $4.5M.

The $4M offer was hardly a lowball.

So let's begin with 4.5 million as a comparable given parallels in production. Now remember, Alfie kills penalties. And plays defense at even strength. Selanne does neither.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I'm so sick of this straw man argument. What was the cap in those years? If you remember it was mid 50 million dollars. Thats what our internal budget is now.

Here are the facts: The league has increase revenue every year, therefore the revenue sharing and cap has gone up. Instead of Melnyk going with the movement he has maintained the same spending threshold. Lets just get some facts straight and not just say "he speant to the cap" the dude only wants to spend in the 50's regardless of our performance on the ice. He either breaks even if we have a terrible year or pockets the profits when we go deep.

Talk about a straw man argument...here comes another poster who wants to interpret the numbers how he sees fit to suit his argument that Melnyk is a "cheapskate".

Fact: The team was consistently spending near the cap from 2005-2006 until 2011-2012.
Fact: Very few teams in the league can maintain the increased spending levels that the cap suggests because not ALL the teams are experiencing growth in revenues that matches the top clubs like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, LA, New York.
Fact: Spending to the cap doesn't guarantee success.

But let's not let facts get in the way of arguments.

Here's a fun exercise to do. Here's a list of some teams spending more than us this upcoming season. Let me know how many of them you think have a better roster than us:

Ottawa ~$51 million (without Cowen signed)

Buffalo $54.75 million
Colorado $55.6 million
New Jersey $55.4 million
Washington $56.7 million
Toronto $59 million
Carolina $59.3 million
Nashville $62.3 million
Montreal $64.5 million
Tampa Bay $65 million
Dallas $58.4 million
Winnipeg $57.7 million
Columbus $61 million
Edmonton $59 million
Detroit $67.3 million

 

[BankStreetParade]

Jagr, the 41 year old who went goalless through four playoff rounds, and put up as many points in 22 games as Alfie did in 10.

Alfie is the better player today.

I think he meant Jagr, the 41 year old who had 35 points in the regular season (compared to Alfredsson's 26) and played a regular shift on a team that went to the Finals.

 

[alfierulestheworld]

Talk about a straw man argument...here comes another poster who wants to interpret the numbers how he sees fit to suit his argument that Melnyk is a "cheapskate".

Fact: The team was consistently spending near the cap from 2005-2006 until 2011-2012.
Fact: Very few teams in the league can maintain the increased spending levels that the cap suggests because not ALL the teams are experiencing growth in revenues that matches the top clubs like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, LA, New York.
Fact: Spending to the cap doesn't guarantee success.

But let's not let facts get in the way of arguments.

Here's a fun exercise to do. Here's a list of some teams spending more than us this upcoming season. Let me know how many of them you think have a better roster than us:

Ottawa ~$51 million (without Cowen signed)

Buffalo $54.75 million
Colorado $55.6 million
New Jersey $55.4 million
Washington $56.7 million
Toronto $59 million
Carolina $59.3 million
Nashville $62.3 million
Montreal $64.5 million
Tampa Bay $65 million
Dallas $58.4 million
Winnipeg $57.7 million
Columbus $61 million
Edmonton $59 million
Detroit $67.3 million

With the Candian Dollar near Par, there is no reason Ottawa shouldnt be able to spend $55-$60M and be close to breakeven. At $50M a season, Ottawa MUST be profitable and money going into EM's pocket. I still repect EM for saving the franchise.

 

[source]

Talk about a straw man argument...here comes another poster who wants to interpret the numbers how he sees fit to suit his argument that Melnyk is a "cheapskate".

Fact: The team was consistently spending near the cap from 2005-2006 until 2011-2012.
Fact: Very few teams in the league can maintain the increased spending levels that the cap suggests because not ALL the teams are experiencing growth in revenues that matches the top clubs like Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, LA, New York.
Fact: Spending to the cap doesn't guarantee success.

But let's not let facts get in the way of arguments.

Here's a fun exercise to do. Here's a list of some teams spending more than us this upcoming season. Let me know how many of them you think have a better roster than us:

Ottawa ~$51 million (without Cowen signed)

Buffalo $54.75 million
Colorado $55.6 million
New Jersey $55.4 million
Washington $56.7 million
Toronto $59 million
Carolina $59.3 million
Nashville $62.3 million
Montreal $64.5 million
Tampa Bay $65 million
Dallas $58.4 million
Winnipeg $57.7 million
Columbus $61 million
Edmonton $59 million
Detroit $67.3 million

Is anyone here saying guarantee?

Why can't it just be accepted by everybody that spending more money generally equates with more success. Sheesh.

 

[Hossa18]

How embarrassing and short-sighted could some of you be?

For everyone who keeps talking **** about Melnyk being "cheap" and keeping money away from the team, do you not remember the Sens teams that were spending to the cap every year?

Like how ****ing fickle and unappreciative could you guys be? One 41-year-old guy who wanted $6 million walks away and everyone starts calling the guy a cheapskate who's going to run the team in to the ground? What the ****?

Wow.....you are the only embarrassing one hear who is drinking Melnyk's cool aid. Do you not remember Melnyk buying the team and promising that he would do whatever it takes to bring a cup to Ottawa and that money would not be a barrier. Who exactly is being short sighted?

 

[BankStreetParade]

Is anyone here saying guarantee?

Why can't it just be accepted by everybody that spending more money generally equates with more success. Sheesh.

It's the same thing!!!!!

Look at the list that I posted and you can re-phrase the question anyway you want.

Looking at those teams, which ones spending more money will generally equate with more success than our team? Doesn't make a difference. You're just arguing semantics on a point that still fully supports the point i'm making.

 

[playasRus]

Wow.....you are the only embarrassing one hear who is drinking Melnyk's cool aid. Do you not remember Melnyk buying the team and promising that he would do whatever it takes to bring a cup to Ottawa and that money would not be a barrier. Who exactly is being short sighted?

To be fair, he probably didn't expect to have his businesses doing poor, let alone his wife divorce him for half his worth.

 

[source]

It's the same thing!!!!!

Look at the list that I posted and you can re-phrase the question anyway you want.

Looking at those teams, which ones spending more money will generally equate with more success than our team? Doesn't make a difference. You're just arguing semantics on a point that still fully supports the point i'm making.

Consider other factors. I'm done here.

 

[LuckyPierre]

I think he meant Jagr, the 41 year old who had 35 points in the regular season (compared to Alfredsson's 26) and played a regular shift on a team that went to the Finals.

Sweet, regular season production!

 

[BankStreetParade]

Wow.....you are the only embarrassing one hear who is drinking Melnyk's cool aid. Do you not remember Melnyk buying the team and promising that he would do whatever it takes to bring a cup to Ottawa and that money would not be a barrier. Who exactly is being short sighted?

Drinking Melnyk's Kool Aid? What the ****??? How? Because the direction this team is taking is on the upswing? Because we just improved on the previous year's result by winning a playoff round? Because we added a bona fide star winger to a team that desperately needed one? Because we signed depth players like MacArthur and Corvo to provide a punch of offense to the team? Oh right, I forget that for dumb fans success equals spending as much money as possible each year and results be damned. As long as we're spending money everything is candy. Never occurs to anybody that teams achieve championship success in different ways. Nevermind the fact that this team clearly spends a ton of money every year on scouting and player development let's just spend all of our cap space every year on marginal free agents so that the fan base can feel better about the owner's commitment to winning. But I guess that makes me shortsighted. **** that.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Sweet, regular season production!

Oh sorry I forgot that the regular season has absolutely no bearing on the playoffs...

 

[BankStreetParade]

Consider other factors. I'm done here.

Good. You weren't adding anything to the conversation anyway. Thanks for bothering to reply to what I said. "Consider other factors"...sure, whatever the **** that means.

 

[Canadian Time]

Why can't it just be accepted by everybody that spending more money generally equates with more success. Sheesh.

Because it doesn't work that way, or at least it doesn't work well that way. First the players/team gets good, then they get expensive if they are worth keeping together. Teams rarely have success doing it the other way around.

Let's say the Sens had signed Clarkson to that 7 year, expensive deal. It really doesn't make them much better, just more expensive.

If this existing Sens team continues to get better, maybe even takes a big jump, try projecting their payroll over the next two years as the new contracts come up. If they are worth keeping together, this exact team will be a cap team very soon. Let's hope they are because that will mean they are doing well and worth keeping together.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Drinking Melnyk's Kool Aid? What the ****??? How? Because the direction this team is taking is on the upswing? Because we just improved on the previous year's result by winning a playoff round? Because we added a bona fide star winger to a team that desperately needed one? Because we signed depth players like MacArthur and Corvo to provide a punch of offense to the team? Oh right, I forget that for dumb fans success equals spending as much money as possible each year and results be damned. As long as we're spending money everything is candy. Never occurs to anybody that teams achieve championship success in different ways. Nevermind the fact that this team clearly spends a ton of money every year on scouting and player development let's just spend all of our cap space every year on marginal free agents so that the fan base can feel better about the owner's commitment to winning. But I guess that makes me shortsighted. **** that.

Because it doesn't work that way, or at least it doesn't work well that way. First the players/team gets good, then they get expensive if they are worth keeping together. Teams rarely have success doing it the other way around.

Let's say the Sens had signed Clarkson to that 7 year, expensive deal. It really doesn't make them much better, just more expensive.

If this existing Sens team continues to get better, maybe even takes a big jump, try projecting their payroll over the next two years as the new contracts come up. If they are worth keeping together, this exact team will be a cap team very soon. Let's hope they are because that will mean they are doing well and worth keeping together.

this.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

- Hardest decision he's ever had to make
- Selfish decision, felt he had to do something for him at tne end of his career
- detroit will spend to cap, feels that gives him a better shot
- loves ottawa, appreciates what the city and fans have done for him
- needed a change to motivate himself
- wishes the senators the best
- cliche cliche cliche

 

[BK201]

- Hardest decision he's ever had to make
- Selfish decision, felt he had to do something for him at tne end of his career
- detroit will spend to cap, feels that gives him a better shot
- loves ottawa, appreciates what the city and fans have done for him
- needed a change to motivate himself
- wishes the senators the best
- cliche cliche cliche

but then people will see it's not just a huge FU. I'm personally not to mad at him like some people here i understand the change and even why people would want.

jut wait till your at a job for a long time(like 10 plus years) change is just something exciting when you get it into your head.

 

[John Holmes*]

Jagr has real hardware, and accomplished a hell of a lot more in his career than Alfredsson has.

He or Selanne are the PERFECT examples of what Alfredsson should be getting paid.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

What is the market value of a 41 year old?

Maybe the $2 M + $2 M that Jagr signed for?

Simple John, whatever someone is willing to pay for your services.

In Alfie's case, $3.5M plus $2M in bonuses.

 

[Micklebot]

Jagr has real hardware, and accomplished a hell of a lot more in his career than Alfredsson has.

He or Selanne are the PERFECT examples of what Alfredsson should be getting paid.

Although Elias is younger, I can't see Alfredsson being worth as much as him at 5.5.

Ray Whitney seems like better value at 4.5 as well.

4 mil seems like a pretty fair starting point imo.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

I'm not positive of this, but are not bonuses for veterans only able to be for games played under thew new CBA? If so, those bonuses are about as gimme as you can get.

 

[Micklebot]

I'm not positive of this, but are not bonuses for veterans only able to be for games played under thew new CBA? If so, those bonuses are about as gimme as you can get.

Cap geek suggested Alfredsson's bonus was tied to playing 10+ games, so yeah, it's a gimme.