All Alfredsson Discussion

[Sonny Lamateena]

Here's my question, though - why is it that Selanne is playing for the same money, more or less, that the Sens first offered with no drama?

If Selanne signs for the same money that the Sens offered Alfie the only players paid significantly more than him on the Ducks are Getzlaf and Perry which is appropriate for his value to the team. Also that is about as high as the salary cap will allow the ducks to go.

If Alfie signs that offer he is significantly behind Michalek, Ryan, Karlsson, and Spezza in salary and Sens aren't even close to the salary cap.

 

[Topside]

If Selanne signs for the same money that the Sens offered Alfie the only players paid significantly more than him on the Ducks are Getzlaf and Perry which is appropriate for his value to the team. Also that is about as high as the salary cap will allow the ducks to go.

If Alfie signs that offer he is significantly behind Michalek, Ryan, Karlsson, and Spezza in salary and Sens aren't even close to the salary cap.

No, it's because when Selanne says he wants to play the rest of career in Anaheim he means it. When Alfie says it, he's lying through his teeth.

 

[M4TR1X]

No, it's because when Selanne says he wants to play the rest of career in Anaheim he means it. When Alfie says it, he's lying through his teeth.

Or he a changed opinion after something occurred.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

No, it's because when Selanne says he wants to play the rest of career in Anaheim he means it. When Alfie says it, he's lying through his teeth.

If Alfie makes his initial contract request to the Sens and the Sens say yes, then Alfie is still a Senator. When Eugene Melnyk told Bryan Murray to give Alfredsson what he wants, that is what his value to this franchise is. When you tell him he's not worth as much to the organization as Milan Michalek, that is how you insult him.

 

[BankStreetParade]

If Alfie makes his initial contract request to the Sens and the Sens say yes, then Alfie is still a Senator. When Eugene Melnyk told Bryan Murray to give Alfredsson what he wants, that is what his value to this franchise is. When you tell him he's not worth as much to the organization as Milan Michalek, that is how you insult him.

Alfredsson last 2 seasons: 122 GP - 37 G
Michalek last 2 seasons: 100 GP - 39 G

So because Alfredsson wears the C he gets some kind of 50% premium?

 

[Canadian Time]

I don't hate Alfie, but his interviews after the season where he went on about how the young team rejuvenated him, playoffs were fun, etc were all smoke.

I don't believe any big conspiracy happened either or he was insulted. He just decided to leave, whatever. There's no hidden story.

I expect the Sens will give him a video montage when the Wings play their first game in Ottawa. Fans can clap and cheer during the tribute but then it should be over until he retires. No ceremonies until at least a year after he retires.

 

[Topside]

If Alfie makes his initial contract request to the Sens and the Sens say yes, then Alfie is still a Senator. When Eugene Melnyk told Bryan Murray to give Alfredsson what he wants, that is what his value to this franchise is. When you tell him he's not worth as much to the organization as Milan Michalek, that is how you insult him.

Being insulted by negotiations is absolutely Pejorative Slured. You don't have such thin skin if you aren't looking for some excuse. How about not returning any calls or making any contact until the night before? Real good faith for the organization he said he'd only want to win a Cup with. A $4 million contract is just as ridiculous as Alfie's initial request of $12 million/two year, but BM didn't hang the phone and start pouting. He made a counteroffer, which is how negotiating works.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Alfredsson last 2 seasons: 122 GP - 37 G
Michalek last 2 seasons: 100 GP - 39 G

So because Alfredsson wears the C he gets some kind of 50% premium?

I think Alfredsson was just as valuable to the Senators as Milan Michalek.

Alfredsson last 2 seasons: 122 GP - 85 pts
Michalek last 2 seasons: 100 GP - 74 pts

Alfredsson last 2 playoffs: 14 GP - 12 pts
Michalek last 2 playoffs: 17 GP - 7 pts

Alfredsson career as a Senator: 1178 GP - 1108 pts
Michalek career as a Senator: 232 GP - 141 pts

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Being insulted by negotiations is absolutely Pejorative Slured. You don't have such thin skin if you aren't looking for some excuse. How about not returning any calls or making any contact until the night before? Real good faith for the organization he said he'd only want to win a Cup with. A $4 million contract is just as ridiculous as Alfie's initial request of $12 million/two year, but BM didn't hang the phone and start pouting. He made a counteroffer, which is how negotiating works.

That's not how negotiations work with pending UFA's that you actually want to keep on your team. This isn't a young RFA, you're competing with every team in the league and Ottawa's advantage over the other teams is the preexisting relationship with Alfredsson, damaging that by insulting him was moronic.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Being insulted by negotiations is absolutely Pejorative Slured. You don't have such thin skin if you aren't looking for some excuse. How about not returning any calls or making any contact until the night before? Real good faith for the organization he said he'd only want to win a Cup with. A $4 million contract is just as ridiculous as Alfie's initial request of $12 million/two year, but BM didn't hang the phone and start pouting. He made a counteroffer, which is how negotiating works.

Fair enough, so if Alfie didn't like the counter offer and decided to listen to other offers, then accepts one of those deals its the risk the Sens took and lost? Seems fair to me.

Alfie's request for two years at $12M wasn't as ridiculous as you seem to think.

What is ridiculous is judging Alfie's worth to the Sens based on point production. His value to the Sens far exceeded $6M/year, he was the marquee guy, the face of the franchise, the guy people wanted to see. Also the guy that attracted more merchandise sales than almost all the other players combined.

The Sens never should have been negotiating with him in the first place, just pay him what he wants, for one or two years, that would have been the smart business decision.

Alfie was money in the bank for Melnyk. His instruction to Murray to offer him a blank cheque tells you all you need to know about his value to the organization.

 

[Droc]

hes hosting a party at his house friday night.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Fair enough, so if Alfie didn't like the counter offer and decided to listen to other offers, then accepts one of those deals its the risk the Sens took and lost? Seems fair to me.

Alfie's request for two years at $12M wasn't as ridiculous as you seem to think.

What is ridiculous is judging Alfie's worth to the Sens based on point production. His value to the Sens far exceeded $6M/year, he was the marquee guy, the face of the franchise, the guy people wanted to see. Also the guy that attracted more merchandise sales than almost all the other players combined.

The Sens never should have been negotiating with him in the first place, just pay him what he wants, for one or two years, that would have been the smart business decision.

Alfie was money in the bank for Melnyk. His instruction to Murray to offer him a blank cheque tells you all you need to know about his value to the organization.

Sounds like the mentality that got Edmonton in trouble when you pay people not for what they can do, but what they've done (their staff full of old Oilers, Avalanche too). Also, it's the agent Murray is negotiating with, not Alfie personally. The agent's job is to use all sorts of tricks, and Murray has to negotiate properly.

Focus should be on the team going forward, and if Alfie chooses not to be a part of that, then we move on and wish him good luck.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

the bitterness from some posters here is borderline toxic. We're all disappointed he left, but is it possible to both feel let down yet not somber into such disdain for the guy who captained this team for many years and has given all he could while he did so? One false move should NOT taint his legacy/reputation forever. Hopefully most of the haters on here can get over it eventually and realize how important he still is to this town.

 

[Legend Killer]

hes hosting a party at his house friday night.

Lets egg it!!!

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Sounds like the mentality that got Edmonton in trouble when you pay people not for what they can do, but what they've done (their staff full of old Oilers, Avalanche too). Also, it's the agent Murray is negotiating with, not Alfie personally. The agent's job is to use all sorts of tricks, and Murray has to negotiate properly.

Focus should be on the team going forward, and if Alfie chooses not to be a part of that, then we move on and wish him good luck.

Not sure how Edmonton relates in anyway to my comments regarding the Sens or Alfie.

First and foremost Melnyk runs a NHL franchise, it is a business. Alfie was an integral part of this business and not only for his play on the ice.

While the 40 year old Alfie wasn't the same player he was 5 -6 years ago, he is still pretty effective on the ice and his popularity with the fans beyond comparison.

Players like Alfie don't come along often in pro sports, so there aren't many true comparatives.

But even if paying him $6M was a little rich for your blood, another GM, a competitor thought he was worth $5.5M and Alfie won't bring all the other intangibles to Detroit he was offering the Sens.

So signing Alfie for $6M wasn't paying him for the past, it was paying him for what he would bring to the franchise in terms of revenue and play, as well as buy the Senators a ton of goodwill from the fans.

 

[John Holmes*]

Alfie's last contract was:

Age 37 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 38 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 39 - $4.5 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 40 - $1.0 Million

They also disrespected him so much that they bought out his previous deal and at age 37 paid him $21.5 Million dollars on what I am sure the general consensus was for the next 2 seasons, and then two more that nobody expected him to actually play to soften the cap hit.

There is your underpaid, hometown discounted leader that was "insulted" (allegedly) at Murray balking at another two years @ $6 Million per.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Fair enough, so if Alfie didn't like the counter offer and decided to listen to other offers, then accepts one of those deals its the risk the Sens took and lost? Seems fair to me.

Alfie's request for two years at $12M wasn't as ridiculous as you seem to think.

What is ridiculous is judging Alfie's worth to the Sens based on point production. His value to the Sens far exceeded $6M/year, he was the marquee guy, the face of the franchise, the guy people wanted to see. Also the guy that attracted more merchandise sales than almost all the other players combined.

The Sens never should have been negotiating with him in the first place, just pay him what he wants, for one or two years, that would have been the smart business decision.

Alfie was money in the bank for Melnyk. His instruction to Murray to offer him a blank cheque tells you all you need to know about his value to the organization.

That's not entirely true. Not on this board and certainly not around the NHL and on a global stage. This team entered the spotlight because of Erik Karlsson. Even the fans on this forum were pining for Karlsson to come back because of how much of a joy he is to watch. When tsn would do Ottawa games, the focus would be 90% Karlsson, 10% for the rest of the team.

I just don't understand this whole "pay him what he wants" mentality. People use to freak out about character guys like Chris Kelly and Mike Fisher making $2.125 and $4.2 million per year, respectively.

And those guys provided the same production that Alfredsson has provided the last 2 years and both were integral parts of the leadership structure. Yet people couldn't wait to trade them away because of their contracts...

Do you guys not look around the league and realize how many bad signings GMs make on a yearly basis? Why should we be so quick to join their ranks?

No one player is above the team. Players come and go. Legends rise above those ranks and separate themselves through their actions on the ice and off it. Alfredsson was close to completing his legend in Ottawa, but its hard to look past his behavior and say that the team was the one to blame.

 

[Topside]

So Alfie thinks he can demand whatever he wants, and after years of saying he doesn't want to play anywhere else, gets "insulted" when management has the gall to try and negotiate with him. He lied to us and *****ed out on the team. See ya.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

That's not entirely true. Not on this board and certainly not around the NHL and on a global stage. This team entered the spotlight because of Erik Karlsson. Even the fans on this forum were pining for Karlsson to come back because of how much of a joy he is to watch. When tsn would do Ottawa games, the focus would be 90% Karlsson, 10% for the rest of the team.

I just don't understand this whole "pay him what he wants" mentality. People use to freak out about character guys like Chris Kelly and Mike Fisher making $2.125 and $4.2 million per year, respectively.

And those guys provided the same production that Alfredsson has provided the last 2 years and both were integral parts of the leadership structure. Yet people couldn't wait to trade them away because of their contracts...

Do you guys not look around the league and realize how many bad signings GMs make on a yearly basis? Why should we be so quick to join their ranks?

No one player is above the team. Players come and go. Legends rise above those ranks and separate themselves through their actions on the ice and off it. Alfredsson was close to completing his legend in Ottawa, but its hard to look past his behavior and say that the team was the one to blame.

Signing Alfie at $6M for a year would NOT have been a bad signing.

The Sens aren't close to the cap and Alfie just completed a year that showed he could still make a significant contribution. So overpaying him by $500K for his on ice performance would have been greatly overshadowed by what his presence meant to the Sens bottom line.

If you or anyone else believes he should have signed for less money out of loyalty, yet don't hold the Senators to the same standard, then good luck with that approach in the real world.

The bad contract stuff is just the noise of justification for an opinion. Fact is two of the teams in the same division as the Sens, arguably better teams, felt Alfie was worth more to them than Murray's initial offer indicated he was worth to the Sens.

While negotiating is fair, whether anyone believes it or not, it sets the tone for both sides. IMO that initial offer was the catalyst for the decision that followed.

While Alfie did say he wanted to remain in Ottawa for the rest of his career. I believe he did so based on his belief that Melynk wanted him to be a Senator for life.

So after years of taking less than his market value from the team, his initial request was $.500K more than his market value, the Sens responded with an offer of $1-2M less than the market.

While I don't blame Murray for believing Alfie would end up signing in Ottawa, he made a mistake in basing his initial offer on that assumption.

I don't like how this ended, but I understand how it came to this and see no reason to assign blame.

As a Sens fan and season ticket holder I wish Alfie and his family all the best. Hope he decides to return to Ottawa after he retires. The city would be fortunate to have him.

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

Alfie's last contract was:

Age 37 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 38 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 39 - $4.5 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 40 - $1.0 Million

They also disrespected him so much that they bought out his previous deal and at age 37 paid him $21.5 Million dollars on what I am sure the general consensus was for the next 2 seasons, and then two more that nobody expected him to actually play to soften the cap hit.

There is your underpaid, hometown discounted leader that was "insulted" (allegedly) at Murray balking at another two years @ $6 Million per.

They bought him out of his previous deal because they didn't want him playing out the final year of his contract and hitting the option targets of playing 70 games or getting 70 points (which he hit both), and potentially declaring himself an UFA.

If you think Alfie didn't intend to play the final 2 years of his new deal then you've got to give him credit for agreeing to a deal that would give the Senators extra cap space as he would never of got any of the money in the last 2 years if he retired. You also have to give him credit for his commitment to the team playing the final 2 years at below market value.

The previous deal demonstrated how much the Sens valued Alfie and that they did not want to risk losing him. The deal demonstrated that Alfie wanted to remain in Ottawa and wanted the Sens to have the cap room to win a championship.

This time the Sens let Alfie play out his contract, his contract request was in line with the other top players on the Senators, the Sens were not close to the salary cap and were close to trading for a player making close to what Alfie had requested.

 

[Proust*]

Alfie's last contract was:

Age 37 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 38 - $7 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 39 - $4.5 Million + $700 K buyout
Age 40 - $1.0 Million

They also disrespected him so much that they bought out his previous deal and at age 37 paid him $21.5 Million dollars on what I am sure the general consensus was for the next 2 seasons, and then two more that nobody expected him to actually play to soften the cap hit.

There is your underpaid, hometown discounted leader that was "insulted" (allegedly) at Murray balking at another two years @ $6 Million per.

For someone who doesn't care, you really seem to care...

 

[Sonny Lamateena]

So Alfie thinks he can demand whatever he wants, and after years of saying he doesn't want to play anywhere else, gets "insulted" when management has the gall to try and negotiate with him. He lied to us and *****ed out on the team. See ya.

Daniel Alfredsson has no contract and he thinks he deserves to be paid similarly to Ottawa's other top players? I agree with Bryan Murray that is "unfair". Then Murray makes a counter offer and is outbid by another team. Is that really how negotiations work with an unrestricted free agent? At least the Sens were honest, their was absolutely no way Alfredsson would of re-signed here and they were willing to give him whatever he wanted.

 

[John Holmes*]

Yeah I'm all torn up over it.

What 37 year old just signed a $21.5 Million, back diving, cap friendly contract recently?

All this arguing over money is stupid. He ultimately signed for $3.5 M with $2.0 M in bonuses. For one year.

Ottawa easily matches that.

 

[source]

Another theory:

41-year-old Alfredsson, unwilling to face the pressure of captaining the Senators for a lengthy 82-game season, and equally unwilling to subject the Senators to an expensive risk, takes the money from Detroit where he can play behind Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Not as 'selfish' as it appears on first glance. I'm only half-kidding.

Remember, he was bordering on retiring.

 

[Milan the God*]

So Melnyk today confirmed that a main reason Alfie left was because the Sens wouldn't be able to bring in extra pieces if they re-signed Alfie.