Player Discussion Alexander Radulov part 5 -- the final edition?

[G0bias]

No I don't agree he HAS too...

Habs want 3yrs
Radulov wants 6yrs

Find a compromise somewhere in the middle.

Whether that's 4yrs or 5yrs...there's a deal to be made there.

Radulov earned some security
Habs don't have to to bend to whatever he wants.

And here I thought we made some progress!

Unfortunately that's the situation MB put himself in coupled with the reality of the current market. You don't risk losing so much (Radulov + whatever assets it'll take to improve the lineup equivalently, which will likely create another hole somewhere) on 1 or 2 extra years down the road.

Caps are in a much better shape than us and were willing to bite the bullet on 8 years for Oshie. We're simply in no condition to bail at 6 years for a better player...just because.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Everyone, stop the childish bickering and name-calling.

 

[scrubadam]

Nobody thinks that, so it's pointless to mention. As of today, this team is about the same as it was last year, assuming we get Markov signed. Maybe it will be better too if all our youngsters keep progressing. Or maybe it will be about the same. Either way, this team is unquestionably a PO one.
The objective though is to be strong enough to go far in the POs.
We have a golden opportunity to gather one of the best group of wingers in the NHL.

I have read quite a few posts saying to rebuild or how the team doesn't have much of a chance without Radu so I do think plenty of people are saying or implying it.

Great chance to have some great wingers. Problem is Radu is really over pricing himself. His contract is not and will not be a value contract and he isn't going to improve as opposed to a guy like AG or Drouin. What we see is what we get.

But as I have said MB just needs to pay him. It won't be his problem because he probably won't last as the GM for 3 or 4 years from now. This isn't Nashville where a GM can last 10 years. This contract is the nail in MB's coffin. Either he signs him and screws himself 4 or 5 years from now, or lets him walk and screws himself this year.

 

[scrubadam]

Over 70 points and 36 goals though? Sorry not with our centers of April this year.

If your going to dream, dream big! LOL.

Ya its a crazy prediction and I wouldn't be the farm on it but lets hope that we got our own version of Seguin here and Drouin breaks out big time with the habs next year.

 

[get25]

Overpaying Alexei Emelin at 4M or David Desharnais at 3.5M is completely different than paying Alex Radulov as your highest paid player.

Right before you have to negotiate an extension with who is CLEARLY your best player (Carey Price).

Not even sure why you and him are attempting to make the parallel.

When he signed his contract, DD at 3.5 was pretty good.
I don't remember posters complaining.
So were really happy.

Nobody complained when Plek signed his contract after a 60 points and a 54 points season (actually he was signed during the season when he had a better pace than 54 points).

Now, if we sign Radulov at 7M X 6 and his performance decreases to 40-45 points in two years we will be stuck with him for another 4 years.
At 30 years old, he can improve or decrease over the next 6 years.
Seems more likely to decrease.

PP TOI should decrease as there will be more players who can play on PP.
Given his 26 points in PP, Drouin should play on the first PP unit.

Gallagher should also get more PP TOI next year given he was injured.
So you have three players trying to get PP TOI on the RW: Drouin, Radulov, Gallagher.
Given his pace of 62 points in 2015-16, Gallagher could certainly get significant PP time. Last year, he was injured.

 

[BaseballCoach]

This team won the Divison twice without Radulov. It finished 2nd in the NHL without Raudlov.

That was a different team, a better team. That team had Subban, it had a younger Plekanec and a younger Markov.

It's a team game. And there are ups and downs. Subban was a great playoff contributor but was also on the team that missed the playoffs in 2016, and got booted first round in 2013.

Same thing with Radulov. He had a great game 2 and 3 against the NYR, but otherwise not that much happening, nor for others.

MaxPac on the other hand had a TON of shots and if 10% went in, he would have led the team in goals with 3 and we probably would have won the series. I get that we are disappointed but a 0% shooting percentage on 28 shots in 6 games is not a usual occurrence. We can't say the effort was not there. "Max, if only you tried hard, the puck would have gone in more". Come on, man!

 

[417]

And here I thought we made some progress!

Unfortunately that's the situation MB put himself in coupled with the reality of the current market. You don't risk losing so much (Radulov + whatever assets it'll take to improve the lineup equivalently, which will likely create another hole somewhere) on 1 or 2 extra years down the road.

Caps are in a much better shape than us and were willing to bite the bullet on 8 years for Oshie. We're simply in no condition to bail at 6 years for a better player...just because.

So Radulov doesn't have to bend at all...it's all on the Habs to accommodate his demands?

Again..

Habs want 3
Radulov wants 6

Is there not a deal for both sides in the middle?

Is that such an unreasonable position from me?

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's a team game. And there are ups and downs. Subban was a great playoff contributor but was also on the team that missed the playoffs in 2016, and got booted first round in 2013.

...I got a bad feeling about the rest of this post.

Same thing with Radulov. He had a great game 2 and 3 against the NYR, but otherwise not that much happening, nor for others.

He had 7 points on 11 habs goals. There was hardly anything we did score that he wasn't involved in.

MaxPac on the other hand had a TON of shots and if 10% went in, he would have led the team in goals with 3 and we probably would have won the series. I get that we are disappointed but a 0% shooting percentage on 28 shots in 6 games is not a usual occurrence. We can't say the effort was not there. "Max, if only you tried hard, the puck would have gone in more". Come on, man!

Oh goodie, shots! Radulov had 7 points in 6 games, contributing directly to the majority of habs offense. On the other hand, Max Pacioretty didn't. Not even close.

Get that could've, would've, should've bidness outta mah house!

 

[BaseballCoach]

...I got a bad feeling about the rest of this post.



He had 7 points on 11 habs goals. There was hardly anything we did score that he wasn't involved in.



Oh goodie, shots! Radulov had 7 points in 6 games, contributing directly to the majority of habs offense. On the other hand, Max Pacioretty didn't. Not even close.

Get that could've, would've, should've bidness outta mah house!

You probably think that Brian Savage, Travis Moen and Torrey Mitchell were trying harder in October/November than the rest of the year, right?

 

[get25]

Because I love data.

Max scored at a rate of 1.075 ppg vs non playoff teams over 40 games.
He scored at a rate of .59 ppg vs playoff teams over 41 games.

Radulov meanwhile scored at a rate of .89 ppg vs non playoff teams over 37 games.
He scored at a rate of .54 ppg vs playoff teams over 39 games.

Both are really good players. I won't bash either... But those are the facts of last season for those who want it.

Actually, you can do the same with many players and the result is the same: Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.
Pacioretty or Radulov are same as many others.

There is one player who does perform better/same in PO as in regular season: Kane.

Seems normal to produce less against better team.
I don't understand why it is not obvious to everyone.
It will be pretty hard to find a player who is better against PO teams than against non PO team.
BTW, Bonino scores at a pace of 38 points in regular season and 44 points in PO but his 18 points in 24 games last year was an exception (pace of 62 points).

 

[G0bias]

So Radulov doesn't have to bend at all...it's all on the Habs to accommodate his demands?

Again..

Habs want 3
Radulov wants 6

Is there not a deal for both sides in the middle?

Is that such an unreasonable position from me?

He's soon to be the best UFA and only top line wing on the market, who did bend to MB's offer of a single year contract.

UFAs get overpaid. They don't get what they deserve, they get what teams are willing to pay up. It is what it is.
MB didn't want a multi-year contract in the first place for reasonable reasons. That's up to him to work around it now. Getting rid of Plekanec and Shaw would be a good start.

 

[angry pirate]

Not really.

The trade makes no sense unless we're moving forward. You're saying that if we lose Radulov the trade is even more important. That admits the reality that without Radulov, our offensive situation would be dire, instead of what it was with him this year - not enough. We need to add, not replace.

But it's not dire hence we don't need to overpay Radulov out of desperation. We have Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Drouin, Gallagher, and Byron all on the wings as of right now. Shaw needs to fit in there someplace too. Drouin has made it so the team doesn't have to overpay Radulov. Even without Drouin it could be arguable that overpaying Radulov would be a mistake.

The MB hate is actually getting comical. He's now being hated on for not overpaying for a winger. A center I would understand. We are so desperate and wanting but this is actually amazing to me. Since last July 1st every comparable free agent has signed for 6.125 or less. That's firmly the range that MB should be signing Radulov in.

 

[groovejuice]

It's a team game. And there are ups and downs. Subban was a great playoff contributor but was also on the team that missed the playoffs in 2016, and got booted first round in 2013.

Same thing with Radulov. He had a great game 2 and 3 against the NYR, but otherwise not that much happening, nor for others.

MaxPac on the other hand had a TON of shots and if 10% went in, he would have led the team in goals with 3 and we probably would have won the series. I get that we are disappointed but a 0% shooting percentage on 28 shots in 6 games is not a usual occurrence. We can't say the effort was not there. "Max, if only you tried hard, the puck would have gone in more". Come on, man!

The Habs had plenty of horsepower going into the playoffs save at centre. Danault and Plekanec were not up to the task and Galchenyuk was very poorly deployed.

Bergevin must acquire at least a #2 centre. I've previously suggested Backlund but RNH would also be adequate. Galchenyuk should have the other top centre spot from the get-go. I'd use Gallagher as the main piece from us (assuming Radulov is re-signed) for either player as his value as a local boy has some additional intrinsic value.

 

[417]

He's soon to be the best UFA on the market and only top line wing, who bent to MB's offer of a single year contract.

UFAs get overpaid. They don't get what they deserve but what teams are willing to pay. It is what it is. MB didn't want a multi-year contract for reasonable reasons. That's up to MB to work around it now.

If he wants to stay...and the team wants him back

The middle ground is easy to find.

Up to them to get it done.

I was originally steadfast for 3-4yrs but some compelling arguments have swayed me to think 5yrs aint so bad...

 

[angry pirate]

Actually, you can do the same with many players and the result is the same: Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.
Pacioretty or Radulov are same as many others.

There is one player who does perform better/same in PO as in regular season: Kane.

Seems normal to produce less against better team.
I don't understand why it is not obvious to everyone.
It will be pretty hard to find a player who is better against PO teams than against non PO team.
BTW, Bonino scores at a pace of 38 points in regular season and 44 points in PO but his 18 points in 24 games last year was an exception (pace of 62 points).

I agree completely... Every star player in the league probably produces pretty similar splits vs playoff and non playoff teams.

 

[Kriss E]

I have read quite a few posts saying to rebuild or how the team doesn't have much of a chance without Radu so I do think plenty of people are saying or implying it.

Great chance to have some great wingers. Problem is Radu is really over pricing himself. His contract is not and will not be a value contract and he isn't going to improve as opposed to a guy like AG or Drouin. What we see is what we get.

But as I have said MB just needs to pay him. It won't be his problem because he probably won't last as the GM for 3 or 4 years from now. This isn't Nashville where a GM can last 10 years. This contract is the nail in MB's coffin. Either he signs him and screws himself 4 or 5 years from now, or lets him walk and screws himself this year.

Well I haven't seen anyone say how this team has no chance without Radu after the Drouin trade. Prior to it, ya, totally, makes sense. But since we added Drouin, we are essentially where we are last year.

I disagree about Radu not being able to do better. This was his first full year to the NHL after years in the KHL, so he had to deal with the new rink, different style and speed of game, new systems under two different coaches, new teammates, and he had to do it in MTL's zoo coverage while also going through a divorce.
So ya, with more steadiness, coming in with a familiarity to his teammates, already knowing what to expect from his coach and the game, with more order in his life, you don't think he could do better??

55pts isn't Radu's ceiling. It wouldn't be surprising if he did better.

But yes, Bergevin should go for it. He also would have more assets to trade, but in case he doesn't want to move any because the price is too high, well at least his mediocre centers are going to be better surrounded. Signing Radulov makes sense on every front.

 

[NotProkofievian]

But it's not dire hence we don't need to overpay Radulov out of desperation. We have Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Drouin, Gallagher, and Byron all on the wings as of right now. Shaw needs to fit in there someplace too. Drouin has made it so the team doesn't have to overpay Radulov.

No, not dire, just pointless. I don't particuarly like it when my team does pointless things. Do you?

Even without Drouin it could be arguable that overpaying Radulov would be a mistake.

You can argue anything. Digging in one's heels is easy. It doesn't mean you should, though.

The MB hate is actually getting comical. He's now being hated on for not overpaying for a winger. A center I would understand. We are so desperate and wanting but this is actually amazing to me. Since last July 1st every comparable free agent has signed for 6.125 or less. That's firmly the range that MB should be signing Radulov in.

We need offensive talent. Radulov is the best available. In fact, Bergevin could have retained him for 2 years right out of the gate. But apparently we're not even allowed to criticize that lack of vision the second time it's happened in his career. After 3 years, 1 playoff round win, an epic collapse, and an unceremonious dismissal from this year's playoffs people are fed up with same old errors, the same old scared ****less, risk averse lack of vision. What is comical about it? Explain it to me.

I get the impression that a lot of you will just be happy for our team to get to the playoffs. These arguments are not difficult to understand, but literally thousands of words have been written trying to explain them to the unwilling to understand.

We need offensive talent, and you're advocating for letting it walk. Just...reflect on that.

 

[angry pirate]

If he wants to stay...and the team wants him back

The middle ground is easy to find.

Up to them to get it done.

I was originally steadfast for 3-4yrs but some compelling arguments have swayed me to think 5yrs aint so bad...

5 years at 6 Million per is the contract in my opinion. All the comparable contracts that I've looked at seem to be in that range. 5.75 to 6.25 someplace.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You probably think that Brian Savage, Travis Moen and Torrey Mitchell were trying harder in October/November than the rest of the year, right?

What does this have to do with you diminishing the accomplishments of our best playoff scorer while attempting to pump the tires of perhaps the most gutless playoff performance of a habs captain in recent memory?

That was so much spin I got dizzy reading your post.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

If he wants to stay...and the team wants him back

The middle ground is easy to find.

Up to them to get it done.

I was originally steadfast for 3-4yrs but some compelling arguments have swayed me to think 5yrs aint so bad...

Agreed. If two sides want the same thing, making a deal should not be very difficult. 5 or 6 years at 30M should make sense. Radulov needs to understand hes 31 next week so I would go for less AAV for long term security. That's just me. If he is asking for 42M for 6 years... Sorry buddy, you're outta here!

 

[417]

5 years at 6 Million per is the contract in my opinion. All the comparable contracts that I've looked at seem to be in that range. 5.75 to 6.25 someplace.

6M seems like the right number to me ...term trickier to lock down

But like KrissE said....if it's a problem it becomes another GM's problem most likely.

 

[Doc McKenna]

It's a team game. And there are ups and downs. Subban was a great playoff contributor but was also on the team that missed the playoffs in 2016, and got booted first round in 2013.

Same thing with Radulov. He had a great game 2 and 3 against the NYR, but otherwise not that much happening, nor for others.

MaxPac on the other hand had a TON of shots and if 10% went in, he would have led the team in goals with 3 and we probably would have won the series. I get that we are disappointed but a 0% shooting percentage on 28 shots in 6 games is not a usual occurrence. We can't say the effort was not there. "Max, if only you tried hard, the puck would have gone in more". Come on, man!

So he would have had 4 points and radulov would likely have been in on one or two of those goals.

Why didn't max ry passing the puck. 1 ASSIST is not good ENOUGH for our CAPTAIN. That isn't good enough for Shaw, its not good enough for danault, its certainly not good enough for chucky cause even while playing 4th line, had 3 assists and everyone is crapping on him!

WHY should Casper get a free pass? Lot of perimeter shots from 40 feet out instead of his usual 30 feet, those extra feet are what allows the goalie time to react. Guy is afraid of getting his nose dirty. Michael Ryder with less heart-says a lot doesn't it.

 

[Habs100]

Agreed. If two sides want the same thing, making a deal should not be very difficult. 5 or 6 years at 30M should make sense. Radulov needs to understand hes 31 next week so I would go for less AAV for long term security. That's just me. If he is asking for 42M for 6 years... Sorry buddy, you're outta here!

Let's hope they can make a deal. Many free agents have left when a deal couldn't be made: Komisarek, Kovalev, Souray, etc... If Radulov doesn't feel appreciated by our offers, I'm sure he'll get many offers on July 1st that will make him feel VERY appreciated.

I really don't want to see this team in the fall without Radulov. He's too important.

 

[Kriss E]

Agreed. If two sides want the same thing, making a deal should not be very difficult. 5 or 6 years at 30M should make sense. Radulov needs to understand hes 31 next week so I would go for less AAV for long term security. That's just me. If he is asking for 42M for 6 years... Sorry buddy, you're outta here!

Give it to him, you have a chance to solidify your group of wingers to be one of the best in the NHL, you don't pass this up because he's asking for about 1M more per year.
Seriously, people get caught up in pissing matches here, and I'm not an exception to this either, but essentially, if Radu signs here, very few teams can say their wingers compete to ours.
We could package two wingers for a top center and still have good top 4 wingers.
If we keep our centers to be Galch-Danault, well, better really load up their wings.

As I said, signing Radulov should be an absolute must. The best news in all this is we have the cap space to make it work. Go for it!

 

[japhi]

who did bend to MB's offer of a single year contract.

Ahhh the big lie. Say it enough and it becomes true.