Player Discussion Alexander Radulov part 5 -- the final edition?

[Kriss E]

And now we have Drouin and Byron and Danault and AG ready to break out etc...

I like Radulov but the way some posters talk about him its like he was Carey Price. Good player but he isn't Price or McDavid level. Drouin had more goals and almost the same amount of points. What if scores 70 next year that is better than what Radu gave the habs. Imagine he gets 36 goals double Rads output. Maybe it happens maybe it doesn't.

I say pay him, but I am not ready to throw the whole team out because we lose Radu and his 18 goals.

Ya sure maybe it happens maybe it doesn't, maybe Galch becomes a legit top center, maybe he doesn't like the past years, maybe maybe maybe.
Nothing is a certainty, that's why you want to put all the luck in your corner.
Add Radu to your wingers, for the life of me I do not understand how some here are debating against having Radu, Patches, Drouin, Galch, Galla, Lek, Byron.
You have a chance to have one of the best group of wingers in the NHL and people are arguing against it. Why?? Because maybe in 5 years it'll hurt us.
Such a stupid stance to have.

Not only would this a major improvement to our team, but you could also create a solid package to get a legit center while still retaining good enough group of wingers. Say you move Patches and Lek, you're still left with Drouin, Rads, Galch, Gallagher, Byron.

I do not get the ridiculous discussions signing Rads has created. The funniest part of this is people who are arguing against signing him would still welcome his signing. Makes no sense.

 

[417]

Well the numbers you posted actually objectively support the Patio-ready narrative, however I posted an edit which may elad to a refutation of that narrative.

Never once had I challenged the Pacioretty narrative...once again, as it seems you're having trouble grasping this.

I said it would be interesting to find out Radulov share of points vs playoff teams and non-playoff teams.

I never even brought up Pacioretty as a comparison, HE did...

I added Pacioretty as a courtesy to show that I have no bias towards either player...

You can't get any more fair than that...yet you continue to act as though I'm championing the cause of one vs the other.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

I don't put much stock in such a small sample...you do.

Yeah, because playoffs is what matters. Pacioretty hasn't been known to be a playoff warrior. Doesn't even look like he bothers trying. Radulov tries. Big difference there.

Lovely surprise...highest paid goalie makes 8.5M.

Does it take a bachelor's to figure out Price is going to come in above that?

Man, it must have worked out so well for the Rangers to pay Lundqvist 8.5m. All those cups they won... Oh wait?

 

[417]

Ya sure maybe it happens maybe it doesn't, maybe Galch becomes a legit top center, maybe he doesn't like the past years, maybe maybe maybe.
Nothing is a certainty, that's why you want to put all the luck in your corner.
Add Radu to your wingers, for the life of me I do not understand how some here are debating against having Radu, Patches, Drouin, Galch, Galla, Lek, Byron.
You have a chance to have one of the best group of wingers in the NHL and people are arguing against it. Why?? Because maybe in 5 years it'll hurt us.
Such a stupid stance to have.

Not only would this a major improvement to our team, but you could also create a solid package to get a legit center while still retaining good enough group of wingers. Say you move Patches and Lek, you're still left with Drouin, Rads, Galch, Gallagher, Byron.

I do not get the ridiculous discussions signing Rads has created. The funniest part of this is people who are arguing against signing him would still welcome his signing. Makes no sense.

Firstly...the only reason the discussions get ridiculous is because certain people can accept the fact others have different opinions.

Secondly...Yes, I would welcome his signing...over 3 or 4yrs...just not 6yrs as he wants.

Is there a compromise at 5yrs? Maybe...sure.

What doesn't make sense about that for you?

Because I don't agree? you realize when I called you 'massa' earlier, I was just kidding right?

 

[417]

Yeah, because playoffs is what matters. Pacioretty hasn't been known to be a playoff warrior. Doesn't even look like he bothers trying. Radulov tries. Big difference there.


Man, it must have worked out so well for the Rangers to pay Lundqvist 8.5m. All those cups they won... Oh wait?

It's amazing to watch you argue against yourself...

not ONCE have I ever said I WANT to pay Price 9M...

not ONCE lol

Hell if I thought Price trade value = his value to the Habs, I'd want him traded ASAP.

But keep going...shadow messaging

 

[angry pirate]

Well the numbers you posted actually objectively support the Patio-ready narrative, however I posted an edit which may elad to a refutation of that narrative.

Because I love data.

Max scored at a rate of 1.075 ppg vs non playoff teams over 40 games.
He scored at a rate of .59 ppg vs playoff teams over 41 games.

Radulov meanwhile scored at a rate of .89 ppg vs non playoff teams over 37 games.
He scored at a rate of .54 ppg vs playoff teams over 39 games.

Both are really good players. I won't bash either... But those are the facts of last season for those who want it.

 

[angry pirate]

I do not get the ridiculous discussions signing Rads has created. The funniest part of this is people who are arguing against signing him would still welcome his signing. Makes no sense.

It makes all kinds of sense. It's not one or the other. Radulov on a 3 year deal at 7 Million per season is a very different contract than Radulov on 6 year deal at 7 Million per. I'd offer Rads big money on a 2 year deal, but the market shows that players comparable to him shouldn't be getting 9 to 10% of a teams cap on a long term deal.

 

[scrubadam]

Ya sure maybe it happens maybe it doesn't, maybe Galch becomes a legit top center, maybe he doesn't like the past years, maybe maybe maybe.
Nothing is a certainty, that's why you want to put all the luck in your corner.
Add Radu to your wingers, for the life of me I do not understand how some here are debating against having Radu, Patches, Drouin, Galch, Galla, Lek, Byron.
You have a chance to have one of the best group of wingers in the NHL and people are arguing against it. Why?? Because maybe in 5 years it'll hurt us.
Such a stupid stance to have.

Not only would this a major improvement to our team, but you could also create a solid package to get a legit center while still retaining good enough group of wingers. Say you move Patches and Lek, you're still left with Drouin, Rads, Galch, Gallagher, Byron.

I do not get the ridiculous discussions signing Rads has created. The funniest part of this is people who are arguing against signing him would still welcome his signing. Makes no sense.

I am in the same boat as you. Pay him and forget about the future. Who knows if any of us will still be fans of the team in 5 years, MB probably won't even be the GM by then.

But if he walks because MB didn't want to pay him 7 Mill a season I don't think that means this team is going to finish at the bottom of the league. I think we can be a better team with Drouin +UFA and no Radu. Not saying it will happen but it can.

With Price and CJ at the helm this team will battle for a top spot in the division. With Radu there I would be more comfortable, but without him I still think the team has a very good chance to be very competitive.

But more talent is always better. MB needs to stop thinking about 5 years from now and just think about tomorrow. He took the 1st step in trading for Drouin. Take the next step and blow the teams cap a few years from now to have a shot at doing something this season.

 

[A Loyal Dog]

It's amazing to watch you argue against yourself...

not ONCE have I ever said I WANT to pay Price 9M...

not ONCE lol

keep going...shadow messaging

The only one arguing in this whole thread is you. You're trying to pick on every little detail, and trying to instigate an argument with others.

You do understand that if Radulov does not come back, the Drouin trade is worth absolutely nothing, right? We lost Sergachev, a top-2 high-potential defenseman, to improve our team to contend right now. Radulov is the definition of right now, along with our core that consists of Weber, Price, etc.

You should also understand that Radulov not extending here means MTL will most likely overpay for a LD and a C (Alzner and Hanzal are likely targets).

Under Bergevin's lead, MTL will extend Price and Pacioretty at ridiculous amounts. Where does it get us? We lost last playoffs because we couldn't buy a goal. Radulov was among the only bright spots of our roster during said playoffs. It wasn't like we were playing against Pittsburgh either, we were playing against the NYR...

 

[G0bias]

Firstly...the only reason the discussions get ridiculous is because certain people can accept the fact others have different opinions.

Secondly...Yes, I would welcome his signing...over 3 or 4yrs...just not 6yrs as he wants.

Is there a compromise at 5yrs? Maybe...sure.

What doesn't make sense about that for you?

Why not? If Bergevin has many different ways to make us a contender by just getting "creative" like you say, what stops him from being creative to deal with Radulov's contract once its start being a burden?

Leafs found a way to deal with the worst contract in recent history. Red Wings paid just a small price to get rid of Datsyuk's. That's just 2 of them.

Worrying about Radulov's contract that many years down the road seems pointless since we'll be out of the window MB boxed himself in anyways. And if we have to pay a price in 5 years, so be it.

 

[Doc McKenna]

And now we have Drouin and Byron and Danault and AG ready to break out etc...

I like Radulov but the way some posters talk about him its like he was Carey Price. Good player but he isn't Price or McDavid level. Drouin had more goals and almost the same amount of points. What if scores 70 next year that is better than what Radu gave the habs. Imagine he gets 36 goals double Rads output. Maybe it happens maybe it doesn't.

I say pay him, but I am not ready to throw the whole team out because we lose Radu and his 18 goals.

I agree that is quite the imagination.

 

[Kriss E]

Firstly...the only reason the discussions get ridiculous is because certain people can accept the fact others have different opinions.

Secondly...Yes, I would welcome his signing...over 3 or 4yrs...just not 6yrs as he wants.

Is there a compromise at 5yrs? Maybe...sure.

What doesn't make sense about that for you?

Because I don't agree? you realize when I called you 'massa' earlier, I was just kidding right?

Because you are pissing away on a chance to have the best group of wingers in the NHL for...hmm...what exactly?? Because MAYBE in 6 years Radu won't be worth it??

You used to always be pro talent, your stance was always to pay the top guys of your team and when need be you can find a way to shed salary.
For some reason, at some point, you changed.
Heck we were having discussions during the PK bridge deal where I was telling you the point of skipping the bridge deal is to get him for longer term to a cheaper deal, and you kept saying it doesn't matter, whenever his deal is up, pay your star players.
Now you can argue Radu isn't a star, but he's also not asking for PK money.

Not sure when you changed your stance on this. But retaining your talent seems like the very obvious thing to do.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Ya sure maybe it happens maybe it doesn't, maybe Galch becomes a legit top center, maybe he doesn't like the past years, maybe maybe maybe.
Nothing is a certainty, that's why you want to put all the luck in your corner.
Add Radu to your wingers, for the life of me I do not understand how some here are debating against having Radu, Patches, Drouin, Galch, Galla, Lek, Byron.
You have a chance to have one of the best group of wingers in the NHL and people are arguing against it. Why?? Because maybe in 5 years it'll hurt us.
Such a stupid stance to have.

Not only would this a major improvement to our team, but you could also create a solid package to get a legit center while still retaining good enough group of wingers. Say you move Patches and Lek, you're still left with Drouin, Rads, Galch, Gallagher, Byron.

I do not get the ridiculous discussions signing Rads has created. The funniest part of this is people who are arguing against signing him would still welcome his signing. Makes no sense.

Hey we have Shawful don't forget him. If MB hadn't traded 2 seconds to pick up this 4 MILLION, we could easily have afforded Radulov, a 3rd line winger at 2 million, and had potentially 2 players that might be able to replace radulov in 5 years.

 

[417]

Why not? If Bergevin has many different ways to make us a contender by just getting "creative" like you say, what stops him from being creative to deal with Radulov's contract once its start being a burden?

Leafs found a way to deal with the worst contract in recent history. Red Wings paid just a small price to get rid of Datsyuk's. That's just 2 of them.

Worrying about Radulov's contract that many years down the road seems pointless since we'll be out of the window MB boxed himself in anyways. And if we have to pay a price in 5 years, so be it.

Sure that fair...

But odds are it will be another GM's problem lol

But why do I get the feeling 3yrs from now I'm gonna be talking you off the ledge after another post about Radulov's terrible contract?

 

[Kriss E]

I am in the same boat as you. Pay him and forget about the future. Who knows if any of us will still be fans of the team in 5 years, MB probably won't even be the GM by then.

But if he walks because MB didn't want to pay him 7 Mill a season I don't think that means this team is going to finish at the bottom of the league. I think we can be a better team with Drouin +UFA and no Radu. Not saying it will happen but it can.

With Price and CJ at the helm this team will battle for a top spot in the division. With Radu there I would be more comfortable, but without him I still think the team has a very good chance to be very competitive.

But more talent is always better. MB needs to stop thinking about 5 years from now and just think about tomorrow. He took the 1st step in trading for Drouin. Take the next step and blow the teams cap a few years from now to have a shot at doing something this season.

Nobody thinks that, so it's pointless to mention. As of today, this team is about the same as it was last year, assuming we get Markov signed. Maybe it will be better too if all our youngsters keep progressing. Or maybe it will be about the same. Either way, this team is unquestionably a PO one.
The objective though is to be strong enough to go far in the POs.
We have a golden opportunity to gather one of the best group of wingers in the NHL.

 

[417]

Nobody thinks that, so it's pointless to mention. As of today, this team is about the same as it was last year, assuming we get Markov signed. Maybe it will be better too if all our youngsters keep progressing. Or maybe it will be about the same. Either way, this team is unquestionably a PO one.
The objective though is to be strong enough to go far in the POs.
We have a golden opportunity to gather one of the best group of wingers in the NHL.

This is a refreshing post...kudos.

 

[scrubadam]

I agree that is quite the imagination.

Maybe a bit high but its not impossible. Drouin is 22 years old he could be gearing up to break out. He had 22 goals last year. He could very well break 30 this year. He had 53 (or 51) points last year. Could very well get 60+.

He already would replace Radu's production, and being a young guy can go even beyond that.

I would put money on Drouin getting better and improving and having 30 goal seasons and 60 + pts over Radu doing that in the next 3 years.

But in the end I still say pay Radu and screw the cap/future. Teams can dump contracts it happens. And MB probably won't be the GM so it will be the next guys problem anyways.

 

[G0bias]

Sure that fair...

But odds are it will be another GM's problem lol

Good. So you agree Bergevin has to sign him even if Radu wants 5,6,7 years?

 

[Rosso Scuderia]

417 only believe what he wants to believe.

There's no such thing as playoffs performer or windows. Radulov's playoffs numbers means nothing since the sample is not enough for his liking.

He lives in his own world, with his own logic and standards. Nothing wrong with that, just pretty pointless to argue with guy like him.

 

[417]

Good. So you agree Bergevin has to sign him even if Radu wants 5,6,7 years?

Because that's for whoever's GM to figure out when it happens since all he needs is to get creative to deal with it.

No I don't agree he HAS too...

Habs want 3yrs
Radulov wants 6yrs

Find a compromise somewhere in the middle.

Whether that's 4yrs or 5yrs...there's a deal to be made there.

Radulov earned some security
Habs don't have to to bend to whatever he wants.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Maybe a bit high but its not impossible. Drouin is 22 years old he could be gearing up to break out. He had 22 goals last year. He could very well break 30 this year. He had 53 (or 51) points last year. Could very well get 60+.

He already would replace Radu's production, and being a young guy can go even beyond that.

I would put money on Drouin getting better and improving and having 30 goal seasons and 60 + pts over Radu doing that in the next 3 years.

But in the end I still say pay Radu and screw the cap/future. Teams can dump contracts it happens. And MB probably won't be the GM so it will be the next guys problem anyways.

Over 70 points and 36 goals though? Sorry not with our centers of April this year.

 

[angry pirate]

The only one arguing in this whole thread is you. You're trying to pick on every little detail, and trying to instigate an argument with others.

You do understand that if Radulov does not come back, the Drouin trade is worth absolutely nothing, right? We lost Sergachev, a top-2 high-potential defenseman, to improve our team to contend right now. Radulov is the definition of right now, along with our core that consists of Weber, Price, etc.

You should also understand that Radulov not extending here means MTL will most likely overpay for a LD and a C (Alzner and Hanzal are likely targets).

Under Bergevin's lead, MTL will extend Price and Pacioretty at ridiculous amounts. Where does it get us? We lost last playoffs because we couldn't buy a goal. Radulov was among the only bright spots of our roster during said playoffs. It wasn't like we were playing against Pittsburgh either, we were playing against the NYR...

Bolded is ridiculously false. The Drouin trade secures a significant piece of our top 6 for the next 5 years. Drouin makes us better short and long term with or without Radulov. Quite frankly, if Radulov isn't returning the trade makes even more sense as we desperately will have needed an influx to our offense. Drouin provides that immediately.

 

[417]

417 only believe what he wants to believe.

There's no such thing as playoffs performer or windows. Radulov's playoffs numbers means nothing since the sample is not enough for his liking.

He lives in his own world, with his own logic and standards. Nothing wrong with that, just pretty pointless to argue with guy like him.

See the post directly below this one


Then come back and repeat that I live in my own world and I have my own logic and standards.

 

[Doc McKenna]

417 only believe what he wants to believe.

There's no such thing as playoffs performer or windows. Radulov's playoffs numbers means nothing since the sample is not enough for his liking.

He lives in his own world, with his own logic and standards. Nothing wrong with that, just pretty pointless to argue with guy like him.

Come on Rosso, Rad hasn't even scored 60 in the NHL like ever

We need him because replacing him with drouin is a total sideways move that MAY or MAY NOT improve the team. Drew is not going to replace the way Rad digs in the corner and made space for patches, like a big gally.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Bolded is ridiculously false. The Drouin trade secures a significant piece of our top 6 for the next 5 years. Drouin makes us better short and long term with or without Radulov. Quite frankly, if Radulov isn't returning the trade makes even more sense as we desperately will have needed an influx to our offense. Drouin provides that immediately.

Not really.

The trade makes no sense unless we're moving forward. You're saying that if we lose Radulov the trade is even more important. That admits the reality that without Radulov, our offensive situation would be dire, instead of what it was with him this year - not enough. We need to add, not replace.