Alexander Barkov vs. Auston Matthews

[FlaPanthers11]

Lol barkov has been better since the thread started? As if barkov saw it and decided to try harder. Matthews is better offensively. That's not even debatable.

I think you may be jumping in late here? Missed how this conversation started? Leafs fans keep bumping this when Matthews scores a couple goals talking about how it’s so clear that Matthews is now the best player in the league. As if he’s having a stretch that is transcending the rest of the league. Counterpoint is: Barkov has been better over that length of time

Yeah Matthews is a little better offensively. Obviously the better goal scorer though Barkov is also top 10 in that aspect. Matthews also plays with another elite offensive player at all times while Barkov doesn’t. He also plays more. He also plays in more favorable offensive situations.

Barkov is better defensively. He’s also the better playmaker.

Those are basically the givens. But if you listen to Leafs fans around here they’ll tell you that Matthews is far and away better in every aspect offensively and defensively. It’s funny

 

[RapidKnight]

Matthews is just on another level offensively. Matthews is not only the best goal scorer in the league he’s the leagues best primary point producer this season. Amazing considering the lack of powerplay time on ice.

 

[authentic]

Matthews is just on another level offensively. Matthews is not only the best goal scorer in the league he’s the leagues best primary point producer this season. Amazing considering the lack of powerplay time on ice.

Pretty sure he has the highest points per game excluding empty nets too.

 

[Morbo]

Barkov is a great player.

Matthews as he enters his prime is just better.

why that has to be seen as a slight on Barkov I don't know. he's still awesome.

 

[urho]

It's too bad Barkov got injured. I'm quite sure this would've been his first 100 point season (on pace for 106 points) altough people seemed to think his offensive abilities were not getting better anymore.

Barkov over/under 100 points this year?

I find this comparison very difficult. Matthews is the best goalscorer in the world, Barkov will win Selke's through out his career because he can absolutely make you suffer even when he doesn't have the puck.

Barkov's playmaking is also better but being as good of a goalscorer as Matthews is more rare. I think it's almost a question of taste since it's difficult to absolutely prove who's the better player.

 

[centipede2233]

Goal scoring generational centers are more rare than elite 2 way selke centermen.

 

[needforspeed]

Goal scoring generational centers are more rare than elite 2 way selke centermen.

Absolutely. But I´m not quite sure does Barkov fit solely into that definition. Yes, he absolutely is an elite 2 way selke center but now when he´s also stepped up his offensive game he´s also producing at top 10 PPG rate. That is a REALLY rare combination. Having said that I´m also super impressed what steps Matthews has taken and what an monster season he is playing, number one candidate to win the Hart.

They are now both in a position to lead their team into a deep run, let´s see what happens

 

[34]

This poll aged well.

 

[Miro4Norris]

This poll aged well.

Right, Matthews is slightly above only because massive amount of Leafers in this board. Sasha is the guy when we're finding overall better player even tho he averages "only" 13 points per 10 games with noname linemates while Auston Averages 14 per 10games with elite winger. This minimal difference in production doesn't make up the big difference in their two-way game.

But I understand. It's not easy to comprehend how crazy Sasha is without looking his games. Last night is a great example dude was amazing defensively he single-handedly prevented every Pens attempt to get in o zone in third period including powerplays

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Right, Matthews is slightly above only because massive amount of Leafers in this board. Sasha is the guy when we're finding overall better player even tho he averages "only" 13 points per 10 games with noname linemates while Auston Averages 14 per 10games with elite winger. This minimal difference in production doesn't make up the big difference in their two-way game.

But I understand. It's not easy to comprehend how crazy Sasha is without looking his games. Last night is a great example dude was amazing defensively he single-handedly prevented every Pens attempt to get in o zone in third period including powerplays

Matthews has been better defensively than Barkov this year though haha

 

[Miro4Norris]

Matthews has been better defensively than Barkov this year though haha

This haha is important here as it indicates that you're joking so you don't look that stupid, right? Right??

 

[authentic]

Absolutely. But I´m not quite sure does Barkov fit solely into that definition. Yes, he absolutely is an elite 2 way selke center but now when he´s also stepped up his offensive game he´s also producing at top 10 PPG rate. That is a REALLY rare combination. Having said that I´m also super impressed what steps Matthews has taken and what an monster season he is playing, number one candidate to win the Hart.

They are now both in a position to lead their team into a deep run, let´s see what happens

Matthews is in conversation for a Selke nomination this year (I don't think he should win it but Barkov shouldn't have last season either) so he's also not solely just a generational goal scorer. He leads all forwards in takeaways and has better defensive stats than Barkov for the past 3 seasons.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Right, Matthews is slightly above only because massive amount of Leafers in this board. Sasha is the guy when we're finding overall better player even tho he averages "only" 13 points per 10 games with noname linemates while Auston Averages 14 per 10games with elite winger. This minimal difference in production doesn't make up the big difference in their two-way game.

But I understand. It's not easy to comprehend how crazy Sasha is without looking his games. Last night is a great example dude was amazing defensively he single-handedly prevented every Pens attempt to get in o zone in third period including powerplays

Isn't it crazy that a hockey season is more than 10 games?

 

[Dion TheFluff]

This haha is important here as it indicates that you're joking so you don't look that stupid, right? Right??

the numbers have been posted multiple times in this thread. Matthews has kind of taken the next step defensively this year (ranks top 25 amongst forwards in most defensive statistics and analytics both in terms of raw and relative numbers) while Barkov has been mostly just average this year (atleast from the last I checked).

 

[thomast]

Matthews has been better defensively than Barkov this year though haha

How? By few analytics that fits own narrative excluding those where Barkov have been better? Matthews has 55 ES oiGA. That is a lot and stat that actual is something concrete.

Matthews still is better and younger. You don’t pass on generational goal scoring C’s, but him being better than Barkov defensively as a induvidual is far from truth according to actual concrete stats.

 

[authentic]

How? By few analytics that fits own narrative excluding those where Barkov have been better? Matthews has 55 ES oiGA. That is a lot and stat that actual is something concrete.

Matthews still is better and younger. You don’t pass on generational goal scoring C’s, but him being better than Barkov defensively as a induvidual is far from truth according to actual concrete stats.

The Leafs goaltending has been basically the worst in the league this calendar year. If you go back in the thread you will see numerous stats that show Matthews has been really good defensively for quite a while now but especially this season. It's pretty easy to see when watching him play.

 

[Eco]

I'm shocked people aren't giving AM the respect he's shown and deserved. Guy is amazing, can win games, and does the hardest thing in hockey, score goals.

I'm a Habs guy, and why we were able to win last year wasn't entirely his fault (this in before the 'but he doesn't win' nonsense. As if this is a sport that can be won by just one player that isn't a goalie).

 

[Miro4Norris]

Isn't it crazy that a hockey season is more than 10 games?

Isn't it crazy that you seem to be unable to read and you still have posted 1000+ posts here? Key words: per, average.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

How? By few analytics that fits own narrative excluding those where Barkov have been better? Matthews has 55 ES oiGA. That is a lot and stat that actual is something concrete.

Matthews still is better and younger. You don’t pass on generational goal scoring C’s, but him being better than Barkov defensively as a induvidual is far from truth according to actual concrete stats.

I addressed that earlier in the thread.

he has an OISV% of 88.42% at 5v5. I don't care if you're Patrice Bergeron. If your goalie is throwing out numbers like that while you're on the ice, your raw numbers are obviously not gonna look very good.

 

[Miro4Norris]

the numbers have been posted multiple times in this thread. Matthews has kind of taken the next step defensively this year (ranks top 25 amongst forwards in most defensive statistics and analytics both in terms of raw and relative numbers) while Barkov has been mostly just average this year (atleast from the last I checked).

Cool. Now watch the last period of Fla-Pens last night and tell me where I can find defensively dominant period like that from AM. It's not coincidence that Barkov have been Selke-candidate for years and won it last year.

 

[thomast]

The Leafs goaltending has been basically the worst in the league this calendar year. If you go back in the thread you will see numerous stats that show Matthews has been really good defensively for quite a while now but especially this season. It's pretty easy to see when watching him play.

Yeah using statistics that fits your narrative excluding those that don’t. Panthers have more GA this season and there is marginal difference on their #1 goalie. Again an excuse. He has horrible concrete stats defensively. It’s not just unlucky to have more 35% ES oiGA. It only proves how couple analytics doesen’t tell whole story. There is also analytics that favor Barkov somehow they have been left out of the discussion by few leafs posters.

Matthew is best skater this year in NHL take it, but don’t be illusional about him being best at everything. He would be goat, but he isn’t.

 

[authentic]

Yeah using statistics that fits your narrative excluding those that don’t. Panthers have more GA this season and there is marginal difference on their #1 goalie. Again an excuse. He has horrible concrete stats defensively. It’s not just unlucky to have more 35% ES oiGA. It only proves how couple analytics doesen’t tell whole story. There is also analytics that favor Barkov somehow they have been left out of the discussion by few leafs posters.

Matthew is best skater this year in NHL take it, but don’t be illusional about him being best at everything. He would be goat, but he isn’t.

Everyone knows Barkov is a great defensive player, the problem is people are still pretending Matthews is not.

 

[needforspeed]

Matthews is in conversation for a Selke nomination this year (I don't think he should win it but Barkov shouldn't have last season either) so he's also not solely just a generational goal scorer. He leads all forwards in takeaways and has better defensive stats than Barkov for the past 3 seasons.

I was talking about facts, not opinions. Barkov is a Selke winner.

But if you truly are implying that Matthews has been the better player _defensively_ past three years I don't know what to say other than I disagree strongly as is probably majority of people following hockey.

Bottom line in this debate is the same, is Matthews absurdly good goal scoring ability (with great overall game as well) bringing more to the table than Barkov's super solid 200ft game (with high offensive production). I can totally see why many are favoring Matthews even I might disagree. But saying he's better defensively is just not credible take.

 

[needforspeed]

Everyone knows Barkov is a great defensive player, the problem is people are still pretending Matthews is not.

I think Matthews has improved his total game a lot, his playing more solid game defensively than in previous years. He's really strong with the puck, good in turnovers, faceoffs and in my mind also better in positioning himself in ice as well. Some times in defensive end he can still improve with better positioning and winning more battles. I don't believe his high GA numbers are solely attributable to goalies.

 

[Zybalto]

How? By few analytics that fits own narrative excluding those where Barkov have been better? Matthews has 55 ES oiGA. That is a lot and stat that actual is something concrete.

Matthews still is better and younger. You don’t pass on generational goal scoring C’s, but him being better than Barkov defensively as a induvidual is far from truth according to actual concrete stats.

The problem with using ES oiGA is that its (rightly) considered a poor measure of defensive play. I mean, Matthews was better than Barkov in that metric the last two season's before this one but it's so random and goaltending related, I wouldn't hold it against Barkov either.