Alexander Barkov vs. Auston Matthews

[leafsfan5]

Matthews' goalies must hate him because despite good "analytics" he's been on the ice for a surprising amount of goals against.

In terms of raw totals he's been on the ice for 44 goals, which places him in the bottom 5 in the entire league for forwards in goals against. In terms of per 60, hes been on the ice for 3.11 GA/60, which ranks him 243rd out of 284 forwards who've played a minimum of 500 minutes at 5on5 this season.

His goalies have a .884 5v5 save% when he's on the ice this season. That'll tank anyone's numbers

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Matthews has apparently separated himself from Barkov and the rest of the league tonight offensively AND defensively by scoring 2 even strength goals and still finishing a -1. On the same night Barkov had 3 points in a dominating win nonetheless.

Since this thread was started, Barkov has more points per game, a better xGF%, a better +/-. Matthews has more goals per game and a marginally better xGA/60 (2.02 vs 2.09).

Clearly Matthews has elevated himiself to the best player in the league in that time that he's been outplayed by Barkov

All your points have been disqualified because you used +- twice in one post.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

All your points have been disqualified because you used +- twice in one post.

You realize GF% and +/- is the same thing right? Being on the ice for goals against is in fact bad and can even suggest bad defense

 

[Regal]

You realize GF% and +/- is the same thing right? Being on the ice for goals against is in fact bad and can even suggest bad defense

They’re not the same thing though, because +/- includes multiple game states. For instance, Matthews was even at 5v5 last night. His -1 came from the empty netter

 

[Contenderorpretender]

You realize GF% and +/- is the same thing right? Being on the ice for goals against is in fact bad and can even suggest bad defense

GF% can be sorted by 5v5. +/- includes shorthanded goals for and against and 6v5 goals.

Not quite the same.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

They’re not the same thing though, because +/- includes multiple game states. For instance, Matthews was even at 5v5 last night. His -1 came from the empty netter

An empty net goal which he defended poorly, by the way

 

[FlaPanthers11]

GF% can be sorted by 5v5. +/- includes shorthanded goals for and against and 6v5 goals.

Not quite the same.

Sorry guess I should’ve said “mostly the same”. Because nothing in my original post changes if you switch it to 5v5 GF%. Barkov had Matthews beat there both last night and since the thread was opened

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Sorry guess I should’ve said “mostly the same”. Because nothing in my original post changes if you switch it to 5v5 GF%. Barkov had Matthews beat there both last night and since the thread was opened

I'll take the 2g vs 3 secondary assists all day. Btw the 3rd assist lol Lucas literally went end to end barkov didn't factor in on it at all. You could have gotten that assist.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Last 82 games for these two:

Barkov: 47 + 52 = 99

Matthews: 62 + 43 = 105

Matthews is the better goalscorer sure, probably the best in the league. Barkov is better defensively (the fact that anyone even argues this is crazy to me).

Matthews > Barkov this season but the difference isn't as big as some of you are trying to make it seem.

yeah I know. Crazy that people are using actual statistics and analytics to show who the better defensive player is. Just absurd

 

[FlaPanthers11]

I'll take the 2g vs 3 secondary assists all day. Btw the 3rd assist lol Lucas literally went end to end barkov didn't factor in on it at all. You could have gotten that assist.

And I would take 0 bad defensive plays leading to goals against rather than 2 or 3. Barkov had a more positive all around impact on his team last night than Matthews

yeah I know. Crazy that people are using actual statistics and analytics to show who the better defensive player is. Just absurd

Stats like one of the two being in the bottom 5-10% of all players in the league in preventing goals against?

 

[authentic]

Matthews' goalies must hate him because despite good "analytics" he's been on the ice for a surprising amount of goals against.

In terms of raw totals he's been on the ice for 44 goals, which places him in the bottom 5 in the entire league for forwards in goals against. In terms of per 60, hes been on the ice for 3.11 GA/60, which ranks him 243rd out of 284 forwards who've played a minimum of 500 minutes at 5on5 this season.

It’s not really a secret why that is lol

 

[authentic]

And I would take 0 bad defensive plays leading to goals against rather than 2 or 3. Barkov had a more positive all around impact on his team last night than Matthews


Stats like one of the two being in the bottom 5-10% of all players in the league in preventing goals against?

Matthews had an absolutely dominant game but our goalie couldn’t make a save once again.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

Matthews had an absolutely dominant game but our goalie couldn’t make a save once again.

Vancouver 2nd goal: Matthews loses battle in the corner to Horvat then weakly waves his stick in an attempt to win the puck back. Puck cycles up to Hamonic who scores

Vancouver 5th goal: Matthews fails 3 separate times. First, he doesn’t disrupt the neutral zone transition as it passes right next to him by the boards. Then Horvat skates by Matthews shortly after he entered the zone while Matthews again just weakly waved his stick. Finally, while defending Horvat 1 on 1, Matthews failed to prevent the slot pass which was immediately fired home

Vancouver 6th goal (empty net so not as big of a concern): Matthews fails to prevent the zone exit. Matthews returns to the defensive zone where he fails to either pick up the man that scored or block the shot

That’s so far from a dominant game or even a decent defensive performance

 

[Dion TheFluff]

And I would take 0 bad defensive plays leading to goals against rather than 2 or 3. Barkov had a more positive all around impact on his team last night than Matthews


Stats like one of the two being in the bottom 5-10% of all players in the league in preventing goals against?

he has an OISV% of 88.42% at 5v5. I don't care if you're Patrice Bergeron. If your goalie is throwing out numbers like that while you're on the ice, your raw numbers are obviously not gonna look very good.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

yeah I know. Crazy that people are using actual statistics and analytics to show who the better defensive player is. Just absurd

You could also watch the game

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Vancouver 2nd goal: Matthews loses battle in the corner to Horvat then weakly waves his stick in an attempt to win the puck back. Puck cycles up to Hamonic who scores

Vancouver 5th goal: Matthews fails 3 separate times. First, he doesn’t disrupt the neutral zone transition as it passes right next to him by the boards. Then Horvat skates by Matthews shortly after he entered the zone while Matthews again just weakly waved his stick. Finally, while defending Horvat 1 on 1, Matthews failed to prevent the slot pass which was immediately fired home

Vancouver 6th goal (empty net so not as big of a concern): Matthews fails to prevent the zone exit. Matthews returns to the defensive zone where he fails to either pick up the man that scored or block the shot

That’s so far from a dominant game or even a decent defensive performance

Really? Go look at Detroit's first goal and tell me barkov looked elite.

I'll even give a kinder description than what you did for Matthews.

Barkov skates in circles for fifteen seconds in his own zone looking completely lost. The end.

 

[BillyZito]

Let's do the poll in a few years when Matthews isn't on the Leafs anymore.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews has apparently separated himself from Barkov and the rest of the league tonight offensively AND defensively by scoring 2 even strength goals and still finishing a -1. On the same night Barkov had 3 points in a dominating win nonetheless.

Since this thread was started, Barkov has more points per game, a better xGF%, a better +/-. Matthews has more goals per game and a marginally better xGA/60 (2.02 vs 2.09).

Clearly Matthews has elevated himiself to the best player in the league in that time that he's been outplayed by Barkov

Barkov is obviously way too good of a two way player to compare him to Matthews. Barkov just has to improve his +/- a little bit, and he could be considered the same caliber player as a guy like Nick Jensen or Ryan Hartman

 

[FlaPanthers11]

Really? Go look at Detroit's first goal and tell me barkov looked elite.

I'll even give a kinder description than what you did for Matthews.

Barkov skates in circles for fifteen seconds in his own zone looking completely lost. The end.

You can’t even address those points? I guess it’s easier to pretend someone is an elite defensive forward when you blatantly ignore numerous defensive failures from that person leading to goals in a single game alone because “couldn’t get a save”.

If you want the breakdown on the Detroit first goal: Barkov was never involved in a battle and never lost his man. Marchment lost contain of the defender and Gudas peeled off his check at the last second which allowed for an easy tip. Barkov wasn’t involved and was positionally sound.

Now, explain to me how Matthews didn’t have a bad defensive game last night and please address his failures that I pointed out

 

[FlaPanthers11]

Barkov is obviously way too good of a two way player to compare him to Matthews. Barkov just has to improve his +/- a little bit, and he could be considered the same caliber player as a guy like Nick Jensen or Ryan Hartman

Goalposts are shifting. First it’s Matthews is statistically better than Barkov everywhere! Point out numerous stats that Barkov has been better in (including in that sample points per game and xGF%). What’s the response? No not actual GF%. I don’t like that stat

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Goalposts are shifting. First it’s Matthews is statistically better than Barkov everywhere! Point out numerous stats that Barkov has been better in (including in that sample points per game and xGF%). What’s the response? No not actual GF%. I don’t like that stat

how did I shift the goal posts? It was the first thing I said lol. Not my fault if +/- is a terrible stat that can't stand up to the most basic scrutiny

 

[FlaPanthers11]

how did I shift the goal posts? It was the first thing I said lol. Not my fault if +/- is a terrible stat that can't stand up to the most basic scrutiny

Different Leafs posters different inconsistent arguments. Hard to keep track of who is who since many have “Matthews” in their username.

You’ll probably noticed we simplified it to GF%. The point still stands. Barkov has been better in that since this thread has started and in that same time we’ve apparently jumped to the point where Matthews is by far the best offensive and defensive forward in the league

 

[Maplebeasts]

No need to post games played.

What? I've been told for 5 years pace means nothing when talking about Matthews.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

His goalies have a .884 5v5 save% when he's on the ice this season. That'll tank anyone's numbers

Hence why I made the joke "his goalies must hate him".

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Different Leafs posters different inconsistent arguments. Hard to keep track of who is who since many have “Matthews” in their username.

You’ll probably noticed we simplified it to GF%. The point still stands. Barkov has been better in that since this thread has started and in that same time we’ve apparently jumped to the point where Matthews is by far the best offensive and defensive forward in the league

Lol barkov has been better since the thread started? As if barkov saw it and decided to try harder. Matthews is better offensively. That's not even debatable.