Alexander Barkov vs. Auston Matthews

[Cats2TheCup]

 

[authentic]

He actually looks like a Datsyuk clone just half a foot bigger.

 

[zeroG]

What defensive stats? He’s at the top of possession stats. Because he’s one of the best, if not the best, offensive player in the NHL. When he’s on the ice he tends to have the puck. The other team doesn’t. The other team doesn’t generate shots and chances at a high rate.

However, there comes a time when the other team will get the puck and at that time you need to play defense. That’s the time when Barkov is elite and Matthews is only good.

A couple days ago, I pointed out 2 to 3 defensive breakdowns that Matthews had in one game alone that resulted in goals against in the Vancouver game. The very next game he had a horrendous defensive play that resulted in a goal against (the 4 on 4 goal in the Columbus game). No Leafs fans were able to discuss those breakdowns. The post was ignored.

He’s greatly improved in the defensive zone. Even to the point that you can call him a good defensive player. But he still has frequent and significant lapses and acting like he’s anywhere near an elite defensive player because of good possession metrics (driven by his offensive ability) is crazy.

People arguing for Barkov here are very clearly conceding that Matthews is better in certain aspects of the game. Matthews supporters here are unwilling to concede that Barkov is better at any aspect. Including defense. Of which he is the reigning award winner. You can’t have a serious discussion like that

with respect to stats, han discussed this a few days ago. the current public models don't address in-zone defense well:



so, like with all models out there, you need to take those numbers with a grain of salt.

i just watched that series of barkov clips above from the kings game the other night and, outside of his shot, i don't know if there's anywhere matthews beats barkov. of course, matthews is an elite offensive player but barkov is almost unbelievable all over the ice.

 

[pb1300]

with respect to stats, han discussed this a few days ago. the current public models don't address in-zone defense well:



so, like with all models out there, you need to take those numbers with a grain of salt.

i just watched that series of barkov clips above from the kings game the other night and, outside of his shot, i don't know if there's anywhere matthews beats barkov. of course, matthews is an elite offensive player but barkov is almost unbelievable all over the ice.

He doesn’t, and the plays Barkov made in the clip, or just watching him on a night basis, doesn’t always register in an advanced metric column. But then again, you say things like that, and you’re called out for obviously not watching AM play, which we do.

 

[Felidae]

with respect to stats, han discussed this a few days ago. the current public models don't address in-zone defense well:



so, like with all models out there, you need to take those numbers with a grain of salt.

i just watched that series of barkov clips above from the kings game the other night and, outside of his shot, i don't know if there's anywhere matthews beats barkov. of course, matthews is an elite offensive player but barkov is almost unbelievable all over the ice.

I agree with your take on advanced stats regarding defensive play especially.

And if you watch both players and still arrive to the conclusion Barkov>Matthews defensively, then fair enough.

but taking clips from one game to prove he's better defensively isn't exactly a strong argument, and neither is breaking down the defensive lapses Matthews had in one game.

I'm sure leafs fans could find Matthews highlights from a single game that showcase great defensive play as well.

 

[authentic]

I agree with your take on advanced stats regarding defensive play especially.

And if you watch both players and still arrive to the conclusion Barkov>Matthews defensively, then fair enough.

but taking clips from one game to prove he's better defensively isn't exactly a strong argument, and neither is breaking down the defensive lapses Matthews had in one game.

I'm sure leafs fans could find Matthews highlights from a single game that showcase great defensive play as well.

Those who watch Matthews consistently are aware of how great he is all over the ice. There's nothing Barkov does in those clips that Matthews doesn't do on a regular basis except perhaps he looks a little smoother doing it.

 

[OneSniffTwoSniff]

Auston AINEC

 

[Holymakinaw]

Those who watch Matthews consistently are aware of how great he is all over the ice. There's nothing Barkov does in those clips that Matthews doesn't do on a regular basis except perhaps he looks a little smoother doing it.

Totally. Nobody is saying that Barkov's not a really good player, but it's laughable that this thread is still going on.

People are trying to compare a top-15 player to a top-3 player. LOL. Of course they're both good. But there's no real comparison to be made. Matthews wins this one EASILY.

 

[authentic]

Totally. Nobody is saying that Barkov's not a really good player, but it's laughable that this thread is still going on.

People are trying to compare a top-15 player to a top-3 player. LOL. Of course they're both good. But there's no real comparison to be made. Matthews wins this one EASILY.

Barkov might actually be my 3rd choice for forwards after Matthews and McDavid from here on out, and including defensemen and goalies he would only drop to 6th. I think most would say he's a top 10 player now.

 

[zeroG]

Totally. Nobody is saying that Barkov's not a really good player, but it's laughable that this thread is still going on.

People are trying to compare a top-15 player to a top-3 player. LOL. Of course they're both good. But there's no real comparison to be made. Matthews wins this one EASILY.

this thread is still going on because of posts like this one!

 

[zeroG]

Those who watch Matthews consistently are aware of how great he is all over the ice. There's nothing Barkov does in those clips that Matthews doesn't do on a regular basis except perhaps he looks a little smoother doing it.

so put together a highlight reel!

and just to be clear, you're saying matthews looks smoother?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Barkov might actually be my 3rd choice for forwards after Matthews and McDavid from here on out, and including defensemen and goalies he would only drop to 6th. I think most would say he's a top 10 player now.

Yes well I was talking players. If you want to talk just forwards.......he's good but he's still not better than McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, McKinnon, Kucherov, Pastarnak, Crosby, Panarin, Marchand...........in my opinion. And I think in most "legit" hockey analyst's opinions, too.

 

[authentic]

so put together a highlight reel!

and just to be clear, you're saying matthews looks smoother?

No, Barkov does. He has the smoothest looking style in the league with the puck and defensively, looks just like Datsyuk did.

Also Matthews has more takeaways than Barkov does he not? I don't feel the need to prove anything there. If you haven't seen it you simply don't watch him much.

 

[authentic]

F

Yes well I was talking players. If you want to talk just forwards.......he's good but he's still not better than McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, McKinnon, Kucherov, Pastarnak, Crosby, Panarin, Marchand...........in my opinion. And I think in most "legit" hockey analyst's opinions, too.

Fair enough those are all really good players.

 

[authentic]

so put together a highlight reel!

and just to be clear, you're saying matthews looks smoother?

Actually this is a good showcase of his defensive ability.

 

[zeroG]

Yes well I was talking players. If you want to talk just forwards.......he's good but he's still not better than McDavid, Draisaitl, Matthews, McKinnon, Kucherov, Pastarnak, Crosby, Panarin, Marchand...........in my opinion. And I think in most "legit" hockey analyst's opinions, too.

can't agree here. i love pasta and marchand - get to see them a lot.

but you've listed a lot of great scoring forwards who are mostly wingers. not all of them are as strong in their own end.

no way i'd take a high-scoring winger over a slightly less high-scoring center who can control the game like barkov can if i'm starting a team from scratch.

anyway, the question at hand is matthews or barkov. i watched the defensive clips that @authentic posted above (thanks!) and i'll give matthews credit. i don't get to see much beyond the highlights so i don't see those plays unless they're a takeaway that leads to a goal.

they are both great players. you can't go wrong picking either as your franchise center. that said, they'll ultimately be judged by how far they can take their teams in the postseason and the jury's still out there.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Actually this is a good showcase of his defensive ability.

Ok now I wanna see how much damage Barkov/Matthews could do on same line.

 

[tapi]

This season Matthews has been better even defensively according to the metrics. Currently, it's a wash.

 

[AuraSphere]

Totally. Nobody is saying that Barkov's not a really good player, but it's laughable that this thread is still going on.

People are trying to compare a top-15 player to a top-3 player. LOL. Of course they're both good. But there's no real comparison to be made. Matthews wins this one EASILY.

Yeah I mean I'm a Leafs fan as well - but this post right here is why people continue the thread. It's not a "LOL" worthy discussion at all. Barkov isn't a "top 15" player.

The way I'd rank the top 5 players right now are as follows:
1)McDavid
2/3) Matthews/MacK
4) Draisaitl
5) Barkov

Hell I personally take Barkov over Drai but that's just because of the type of player.

It's not as far off as you think - Yes I agree Matthews is better, but stop treating it like a "AINEC" thread. You tend to have a lot of homerism on this forum - so I need to correct you as a fellow leafs fan.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Yeah I mean I'm a Leafs fan as well - but this post right here is why people continue the thread. It's not a "LOL" worthy discussion at all. Barkov isn't a "top 15" player.

The way I'd rank the top 5 players right now are as follows:
1)McDavid
2/3) Matthews/MacK
4) Draisaitl
5) Barkov

Hell I personally take Barkov over Drai but that's just because of the type of player.

It's not as far off as you think - Yes I agree Matthews is better, but stop treating it like a "AINEC" thread. You tend to have a lot of homerism on this forum - so I need to correct you as a fellow leafs fan.

Nah.

 

[authentic]

Nah.

Holymaki-nah*

 

[KevinRedkey]

Voted Barkov when I first saw the poll. Was close.
Matthews has since closed the (small) gap, and pulled out ahead for me.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Ok now I wanna see how much damage Barkov/Matthews could do on same line.

They'd be like the Boston "Perfection Line" on speed. It would be glorious.

 

[elmaco]

Barkov

 

[Deadly Dogma]

Actually this is a good showcase of his defensive ability.

Matthews has to be 1 of the most deadly players on the backcheck in the NHL