Player Discussion Alex Galchenyuk: Time to loosen the restraints?

[Scriptor]

I hope you are right! I guess that comes down to how the next two seasons go. Habs need to be going in a positive direction for a change.

I also hope he is right, but that's about as much reality to the statement as there can be. It's nothing more than a feeling, either way.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I also hope he is right, but that's about as much reality to the statement as there can be. It's nothing more than a feeling, either way.

A lot happened in the last few seasons and a lot more can happen in the next two seasons (positive or negative). If the Habs focus on youth with less pressure to win while the kids have a bit of fun and enjoy playing with each other, I can see us moving in the right direction and our team getting better. However, if we do a "re-tool" and our management gets pissed off cause we just barely missed the playoffs or lost in round 1, it's the same as previous seasons and our team direction is stalled further. In this case, not sure Galchenyuk wants to stay.

 

[MaxDummy]

Weber was injured all year long but had better stats than Subban last season.

Nope

 

[groovejuice]

Burns with the 29 goals is impressive. He had 27 the year before. Dropped to 12 this year.

That is impressive, but also illustrates that the vote always leans to offence first and defense second. This needs to be addressed - perhaps with an all-round best D and a new award for best offensive D, or some other distinction.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That is impressive, but also illustrates that the vote always leans to offence first and defense second. This needs to be addressed - perhaps with an all-round best D and a new award for best offensive D, or some other distinction.

Its a good idea. I like it. The guys who are excellent on D but only get 40 pts ish get shafted and they bring tons of value in the end. Chara might win that next year at the age of 41. Imagine (kidding )

 

[groovejuice]

Its a good idea. I like it. The guys who are excellent on D but only get 40 pts ish get shafted and they bring tons of value in the end. Chara might win that next year at the age of 41. Imagine (kidding )

Not that many years ago, Chara might have been a multiple winner of that award.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not that many years ago, Chara might have been a multiple winner of that award.

Agreed. I can't wait for him to retire! What a free agent signing he was. Probably the only good move Chiarelli ever made.

Maybe they should have an trophy for the defenseman with the highest points. And then another one for all around best Defenseman factoring in a combo of Defense and Offense.

 

[Wats]

Weber was injured all year long but had better stats than Subban last season.
Sergachev is playing on a very strong team, allowing him to play sheltered minutes and PP. Drouin was sent to the wolves by forcing him to play center.

nothing proved that they would had selected De Brincat if they would had kept their second round picks.

Interesting trio of excuses here.

1) why does Subbans injury not count from last season in terms of the comparison?

2) Why was Drouin numbers not considered sheltered/inflated playing behind Kuch last season?

3) Why are we willing to just accept that Habs can't draft well when it comes to Shaw trade, yet we defend Bergevins scouting revamp constantly by saying we just need more time to evaluate.

 

[Mrb1p]

That is impressive, but also illustrates that the vote always leans to offence first and defense second. This needs to be addressed - perhaps with an all-round best D and a new award for best offensive D, or some other distinction.

The perception that offensive ability and defensive ability are equal should be adressed. A player putting up points, especially in a tough context, like Burns last year (And this year, and the year before.), is worth a lot more than a player producing 20-30 less points with "safer" defense.

It stems from old beliefs that had the riskier european players take over the league with their offensive play and with less regards to the defensive side of the game. These would not have been allowed to be perceived as better than their canadian counterparts, thus, the defensive myth was born and it still persists to this day.

It got somewhat of a renaissance when the Habs had Subban, and the Sens had Karlsson. The eclosion of Karlsson as an offensive defenseman and the eclosion of Subban, as a lesser offensive defenseman lead people(Me included, I'm a huge homer.) to claim that Subban was better due to his defense, trumping the 20ish points difference between the two.

That's not true.

 

[groovejuice]

The perception that offensive ability and defensive ability are equal should be adressed. A player putting up points, especially in a tough context, like Burns last year (And this year, and the year before.), is worth a lot more than a player producing 20-30 less points with "safer" defense.

It stems from old beliefs that had the riskier european players take over the league with their offensive play and with less regards to the defensive side of the game. These would not have been allowed to be perceived as better than their canadian counterparts, thus, the defensive myth was born and it still persists to this day.

It got somewhat of a renaissance when the Habs had Subban, and the Sens had Karlsson. The eclosion of Karlsson as an offensive defenseman and the eclosion of Subban, as a lesser offensive defenseman lead people(Me included, I'm a huge homer.) to claim that Subban was better due to his defense, trumping the 20ish points difference between the two.

That's not true.

It's certainly a debatable point. My take is that being the best defender is every bit as impressive as being the best scoring D, in most cases.

A Dman's offensive output is supported by a very large degree by the forwards, and less defensively. Karlsson is always an outlier.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's certainly a debatable point. My take is that being the best defender is every bit as impressive as being the best scoring D, in most cases.

A Dman's offensive output is supported by a very large degree by the forwards, and less defensively. Karlsson is always an outlier.

Karlsson, is, but Burns is too. Look at his offensive contribution in the last three years, its through the roof.

I understand the Carlson point of view, lots of PP time, great PP, offensive juggernaut and all, and the Klingberg and Hedman ones too, both of them are truly taking advantage of the situation they are in... But Karlsson and Burns both outscoring their closests comparables by absurd numbers on weaker teams while obviously more often than not being better defensively than given credit for... There's not much debate to me.

2015-2016 was an absolute joke. Drew Doughty won the Norris trophy with 50 points when Karlsson went 82 in 82 and Burns went 75 with 27 goals... Looking at their ES production its even more of a joke, to be honest.

And as much as I lied to myself and was a blind fan in 2013... The Subban trophy totally should've been won by Letang. His even strength production was through the roof and he tied Subban, who had not much defensive prowess himself, in 10 less games.

 

[1909]

Interesting trio of excuses here.

1) why does Subbans injury not count from last season in terms of the comparison?

2) Why was Drouin numbers not considered sheltered/inflated playing behind Kuch last season?

3) Why are we willing to just accept that Habs can't draft well when it comes to Shaw trade, yet we defend Bergevins scouting revamp constantly by saying we just need more time to evaluate.

Subban was not injured for a whole season, just 20 some games, mainly in the first half of the season. he was top shape when Playoffs started.

Drouin was not sheltered...he was great on PP.... and The Bolts were not playing the same without Stamkos. They did not even make the Playoffs. this year Bolts are a way better team than last year's Bolts.

My excuses = yours

 

[NobleSix]

Or maybe he's learned to say the right things and keep his true feelings to himself, as advised by his agent.

Maybe. But given what I've heard from 2 different people in Chucky's social circle, I doubt it.

 

[RJJ]

Hi, does anyone know if he was invited to play for team USA and just decided not to go??? I thought I heard that he was invited, but maybe they didn't invite him. I sure wish he was playing for team USA. Would make the tourny slightly more interesting.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Interesting trio of excuses here.

1) why does Subbans injury not count from last season in terms of the comparison?

2) Why was Drouin numbers not considered sheltered/inflated playing behind Kuch last season?

3) Why are we willing to just accept that Habs can't draft well when it comes to Shaw trade, yet we defend Bergevins scouting revamp constantly by saying we just need more time to evaluate.

Kucherov had an end of hear statement talking about how in that year Drouin was the only guy who consistently played at the level he wanted.

 

[1909]

Maybe. But given what I've heard from 2 different people in Chucky's social circle, I doubt it.

One of the problem is having his father around the team too much.... The kid was all mixed up between following his father's advices or coaching staff's advices.

Anyway. Galchy is not a martyr. He's got a darn good contract. If the habs had no more confidence in him, they would had dealt him already.

For those blaming Therrien, he is the one who gave him #1 centerman position for all the end of 2015-16 season as well as the beginning of 2016-17 season until he was injured. He came back totally out of shape and out of sync for whatever reasons.

 

[CHwest]

Interesting trio of excuses here.

1) why does Subbans injury not count from last season in terms of the comparison?

2) Why was Drouin numbers not considered sheltered/inflated playing behind Kuch last season?

3) Why are we willing to just accept that Habs can't draft well when it comes to Shaw trade, yet we defend Bergevins scouting revamp constantly by saying we just need more time to evaluate.

There are maybe three nutbars left to defend the binman. I don't think they believe what they post either, they just like to argue.

 

[1909]

There are maybe three nutbars left to defend the binman. I don't think they believe what they post either, they just like to argue.

And you don't like to argue ? You want everyone to be on the same page ?

I blame MB when he should. He gambled a lot in the last few years, and unfortunetely, it did not work well, so far.

 

[Laurentide]

That is impressive, but also illustrates that the vote always leans to offence first and defense second. This needs to be addressed - perhaps with an all-round best D and a new award for best offensive D, or some other distinction.

I agree. Any trophy awarded to a defenseman and not an "offenseman", for lack of a better word, should place a greater emphasis on defensive skills rather than just giving the award to whichever blue liner scored a lot of points. Scoring points is good but if you also produce more turnovers than a good sized bakery or your team is forever being victimized by odd-man rushes due to you always pinching in the offensive zone then you aren't as good a defender as your point totals might indicate.

Paul Coffey was a Hall of Fame caliber "offenseman", "rover", "4th forward", or whatever you want to call what he did but as a defenseman he was mediocre to average at best. I found it insulting when people compared him to Orr simply because of his numbers. He wasn't a fraction of the defenseman that Orr was. He was barely a defenseman at all.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

And you don't like to argue ? You want everyone to be on the same page ?

I blame MB when he should. He gambled a lot in the last few years, and unfortunetely, it did not work well, so far.

Pk subban for weber is a gamble?
Sergashev for drouin is a gamble? I'm curious if you think so

 

[CauZuki]

One of the problem is having his father around the team too much.... The kid was all mixed up between following his father's advices or coaching staff's advices.

Anyway. Galchy is not a martyr. He's got a darn good contract. If the habs had no more confidence in him, they would had dealt him already.

For those blaming Therrien, he is the one who gave him #1 centerman position for all the end of 2015-16 season as well as the beginning of 2016-17 season until he was injured. He came back totally out of shape and out of sync for whatever reasons.

Yeah it's not like we gave 5 years to Alzner, 5 years to Drouin (within 30 minutes of his acquisition) and 6 years to Shaw. You see no issue with giving Chucky a 3 year contract that has him reaching UFA by 26? The language used publicly and his overall treatment reflect clearly that he isn't in the current management's long term plans...

I don't think this is normal stance for an organization, especially when talking about a homegrown player that we selected 3rd overall and has the 2nd most points on the team since he was drafted...

 

[MaxDummy]

Kucherov had an end of hear statement talking about how in that year Drouin was the only guy who consistently played at the level he wanted.

can I have a link plz? I need a good laugh

The closest I found is this

"''We played with Jonathan Drouin once, and it was good. But coach didn’t put us together again for some reason.”

 

[sandviper]

can I have a link plz? I need a good laugh

The closest I found is this

"''We played with Jonathan Drouin once, and it was good. But coach didn’t put us together again for some reason.”

I was about to post this.

Anyhow, I know this is a Galchenyuk thread but in his last year with the Lightning, the team missed the playoffs. First year with us, the team missed the playoffs.

I know, there’s 20-somewhat guys on the team, but I had a chuckle when my friend brought this up.

 

[admiralcadillac]

can I have a link plz? I need a good laugh

The closest I found is this

"''We played with Jonathan Drouin once, and it was good. But coach didn’t put us together again for some reason.”

That's the quote.

 

[MaxDummy]

Kucherov had an end of hear statement talking about how in that year Drouin was the only guy who consistently played at the level he wanted.

can I have a link plz? I need a good laugh

The closest I found is this

"''We played with Jonathan Drouin once, and it was good. But coach didn’t put us together again for some reason.”

That's the quote.

Ok...