Alex Edler - Part II

[Scurr]

I also think your expectations of what $5m is going to get you in a blueliner over the term of Edler's contract are out of whack. 95% of players in this league are going to look markedly worse out there when you don't put them in a situation that works around their limitations, it looked at one point like Edler might turn into one of those exceptional players but that hasn't happened and might never happen. At any rate the guys paid to be effective no matter what are getting $6-8m now.

If your limitation is that you can't play well with any one of our defensemen (who are all quality NHLers IMO) then there is no way you should be making 5m a season. I'm not asking him to be effective no matter what. I'd like him to be effective sometimes. That would be a step in the right direction. The guy has been bailing water for far too long. Bieksa, Hamhuis and Garrison have all had their struggles but have also all played very well for stretches in the last two seasons. When was the last time Edler put a good stretch of games together?

 

[LiveeviL]

The past page and a half has been dedicated to blaming Edlers lack of a game on his partner. It doesn't even make sense…. Salo and Ehrhoff are completely different players.

Still no one claimed that Edler was good just because of them. The discussion was about what kind of player fits Elder best, not that he was good only because of two other D-men. I buy into the idea that Edler should not be the prime offensive man on the pairing. With prime offensive I do not mean quality but more style of play. I could see him improve with a qualitative weaker but more offensive D-man, no problem with that scenario. This is what I think many others mean too, it is about building the team and not getting a crutch for him.


I really dislike when people blurt out a distorted opinion in a discussion thread just to make a splash as I think you did. It just degenerate the discussions which should be in the interest of no one.

 

[Scurr]

Still no one claimed that Edler was good just because of them. The discussion was about what kind of player fits Elder best, not that he was good only because of two other D-men. I buy into the idea that Edler should not be the prime offensive man on the pairing. With prime offensive I do not mean quality but more style of play. I could see him improve with a qualitative weaker but more offensive D-man, no problem with that scenario. This is what I think many others mean too, it is about building the team and not getting a crutch for him.

Isn't that what the team has tried to do with the Bieksa/Edler pairing? It didn't make Edler better… it just made his suckage more noticeable.

I really dislike when people blurt out a distorted opinion in a discussion thread just to make a splash as I think you did. It just degenerate the discussions which should be in the interest of no one.

I really dislike when people get up on their perch and preach to me.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Bieksa tries to drive the play but it's intermittent. He doesn't have the hands to maintain possession well enough if he skates himself into the o-zone. Whereas Edler doesn't have the wheels to do it, so he benefits from a partner who can do it consistently so he can sit back and wait for his opening.

 

[KeninsFan]

Isn't that what the team has tried to do with the Bieksa/Edler pairing? It didn't make Edler better… it just made his suckage more noticeable.

Edler-Bieksa hasn't worked but to be fair Bieksa has looked mistake prone 90% of his time in the top 4. There's a reason why he's been slowly slipping down the RD depth chart the last 3 seasons.

Edler-Corrado looked decent in a very small sample size. Corrado looks like an AHL player (for now) so Edler had to carry him.

Edler-Diaz has looked solid in a small sample size. Diaz plays more of the ideal style Edler should be paired with. Most consider Diaz a decent #5 so Edler has been carrying him in a top 4 role.

Edler-Garrison hasn't looked good but Edler cannot play his off-side and Garrison really hasn't looked good as the RD unless paired with a bonafide top 30 Dman in Hamhuis or Campbell. For a very short stint Edler-Garrison did look good which is to be expected with 2 bonafide top 4 guys.

Edler-Rome was carried by Edler.

Edler-Tanev makes too much sense to be used by Sullivan.

 

[arsmaster*]

Edler-Bieksa hasn't worked but to be fair Bieksa has looked mistake prone 90% of his time in the top 4. There's a reason why he's been slowly slipping down the RD depth chart the last 3 seasons.

Edler-Corrado looked decent in a very small sample size. Corrado looks like an AHL player (for now) so Edler had to carry him.

Edler-Diaz has looked solid in a small sample size. Diaz plays more of the ideal style Edler should be paired with. Most consider Diaz a decent #5 so Edler has been carrying him in a top 4 role.

Edler-Garrison hasn't looked good but Edler cannot play his off-side and Garrison really hasn't looked good as the RD unless paired with a bonafide top 30 Dman in Hamhuis or Campbell.

Edler-Rome was carried by Edler.

Edler-Tanev makes too much sense to be used by Sullivan.

Here is my biggest gripe, not just with Edler, but even in minor hockey (my kids team).

If the player who is supposedly the better player can't play the tougher role, than to me he isn't the better player.

The better player should be more adaptable, should be able to use his superior skills on his off side.

If you can't, then you aren't the superior player.

I've had this gripe for years....especially on this team. Ballard was brutal here, I will not mince words, effing terrible.....so why the hell was he asked to play outside his comfort zone on his off side when he was without confidence and playing terribly. There has to be a point where your self professed best dmen (Hamhuis and Edler) take some lumps and try to move to their offsides making the game easier for their lesser partners, but instead Edler and Hamhuis are locked into the left side and everyone must adapt to them. Seems strange to me. The best players should be able to make the transition easier than the "limited" players.

 

[Proto]

I've thought for a long time that Edler is best when paired with a more offensive defenseman, playing secondary minutes in terms of difficulty. When he's with someone such as Erhoff or Karlsson, he doesn't try to fit the role of "offensive defenseman" and plays a much better game, in my opinion. Edler's problem is when he's miscast as a shutdown defenseman or a primary option at 5v5. He's a terrific 5v4 defenseman (particularly as the second shooting option), but he's really not the freewheeling offensive defenseman some people wish he would be.

Unfortunately that's a pretty specific set of criteria...

 

[KeninsFan]

Here is my biggest gripe, not just with Edler, but even in minor hockey (my kids team).

If the player who is supposedly the better player can't play the tougher role, than to me he isn't the better player.

The better player should be more adaptable, should be able to use his superior skills on his off side.

If you can't, then you aren't the superior player.

I've had this gripe for years....especially on this team. Ballard was brutal here, I will not mince words, effing terrible.....so why the hell was he asked to play outside his comfort zone on his off side when he was without confidence and playing terribly.

Well take into account that Hamhuis/Edler have been playing LD their entire hockey careers. Dmen have to be able to receive passes and it's much harder on your off-side. Stick checking and cutting off angles are different - something to notice is that it's harder for a defensive guy to adjust, offensive dmen can adapt easier because it's easier to play in the offensive zone on your off-side.

Even superstar wingers like OV take a while to adjust playing their off-wing which IMO is the easiest transition.

Dmen with "superior skills" are those with greater offensive tools, a player like Ehrhoff was routinely switched from LD/RD. Ballard reportedly likes playing his off-side but he really hasn't been much more than a #6 lately. Considering most are realizing Edler is much better at being the defensive partner and does struggle with outlet passes switching him to the off-side is a recipe for disaster.

 

[arsmaster*]

Well take into account that Hamhuis/Edler have been playing LD their entire hockey careers. Dmen have to be able to receive passes and it's much harder on your off-side. Stick checking and cutting off angles are different - something to notice is that it's harder for a defensive guy to adjust, offensive dmen can adapt easier because it's easier to play in the offensive zone on your off-side.

Even superstar wingers like OV take a while to adjust playing their off-wing which IMO is the easiest transition.

Dmen with "superior skills" are those with greater offensive tools, a player like Ehrhoff was routinely switched from LD/RD. Ballard reportedly likes playing his off-side but he really hasn't been much more than a #6 lately. Considering most are realizing Edler is much better at being the defensive partner and does struggle with outlet passes switching him to the off-side is a recipe for disaster.

I did take it into account, just as I did for Ballard and Garrison. They are all LD's.

Why not take the better of the left dmen and put them on their right side?

You really haven't written anything that I haven't taken into account....but what is the difference if Edler is a disaster on the RS (when he's already looked damn poor on the left) and Jason Garrison being a disaster on the RS.

I just find we're too light on Edler in this case. Sure Garrison has to play his off-side and people just ***** about him without factoring in him playing a much tougher role, yet Edler gets a damn free pass because he made the olympic team and Erik Karlsson looked good playing next to him (Karlsson looks good with anybody BTW).

It really is scary that Edler is -18 and is playing on the side he's more comfortable on.

 

[Nucks N Canes]

I did take it into account, just as I did for Ballard and Garrison. They are all LD's.

Why not take the better of the left dmen and put them on their right side?

You really haven't written anything that I haven't taken into account....but what is the difference if Edler is a disaster on the RS (when he's already looked damn poor on the left) and Jason Garrison being a disaster on the RS.

I just find we're too light on Edler in this case. Sure Garrison has to play his off-side and people just ***** about him without factoring in him playing a much tougher role, yet Edler gets a damn free pass because he made the olympic team and Erik Karlsson looked good playing next to him (Karlsson looks good with anybody BTW).

It really is scary that Edler is -18 and is playing on the side he's more comfortable on.

Posts like these always have and always will scare me. You don't take your best players and put them in positions for them to fail. In addition Edler is a -18 from having bad luck and a partner that routinely leaves him out to dry. Edler has been our best defenseman again over last two weeks of actual games and as seen from his olympic performance is a great defenseman.

Griping that he should be on his off-side and make him still play with same partners doesn't make much sense considering he is slower to adapt and he has had a revolving door of partners. If you have a constant rotation going on you don't mess with your best players, it doesn't make sense, you make the lesser players adapt as the skilled player has and will continue to carry the pairing as stated before.

 

[FOurteenS inCisOr]

I did take it into account, just as I did for Ballard and Garrison. They are all LD's.

Why not take the better of the left dmen and put them on their right side?

You really haven't written anything that I haven't taken into account....but what is the difference if Edler is a disaster on the RS (when he's already looked damn poor on the left) and Jason Garrison being a disaster on the RS.

I just find we're too light on Edler in this case. Sure Garrison has to play his off-side and people just ***** about him without factoring in him playing a much tougher role, yet Edler gets a damn free pass because he made the olympic team and Erik Karlsson looked good playing next to him (Karlsson looks good with anybody BTW).

It really is scary that Edler is -18 and is playing on the side he's more comfortable on.

When has Edler gotten a free pass?

He's probably been scapegoated more than any Canuck in the current core.

 

[LiveeviL]

Isn't that what the team has tried to do with the Bieksa/Edler pairing? It didn't make Edler better… it just made his suckage more noticeable.

Bieksa isn't the solution and it must be some player in between him and Karlsson which is a good choice. Edler- Karlsson was a good pairing and it wasn't Karlsson covering for Edler (which I do not think anyone thinks). Edler can be good and not just in the past or in the future but right now this season. But this team got worse problems as a whole so better sort that out, it might be the same problem as Edler got.

Isn't that what the team has tried to do with the Bieksa/Edler pairing? It didn't make Edler better… it just made his suckage more noticeable.


I really dislike when people get up on their perch and preach to me.

Sure and it is understandable, it is - just don't trigger it.

 

[arsmaster*]

When has Edler gotten a free pass?

He's probably been scapegoated more than any Canuck in the current core.

I don't think anyone has scapegoated him. Certainly not me. I think he is our most valuable asset and its why I want to explore moving him, because he plays a position that we have decent depth at.

 

[TheWanderer]

That's exactly what has been going on in this thread for a couple pages. He's been a train wreck, blaming his partners is crazy.



The past page and a half has been dedicated to blaming Edlers lack of a game on his partner. It doesn't even make sense…. Salo and Ehrhoff are completely different players.

If you're referring to my post, I'll clarify that I was never blaming his D partner. I was describing how the holes in his game were filled by his D partner, which made him look better than he is.

Edler is indeed a complete train wreck with bad partners, but he is VERY good with the right one. He is an incredibly mercurial player, and his paycheck indicate the mean of his inconsistency. As a result, he and his contact look great when he has a pairing that gels, or horrible in a time like now, when he doesn't.

If we trade him, the trade will look amazing, or it will look awful, and it depends entirely on how he plays with his partners on his new team.

Elder has never been, and will never be, the player who consistently looks good no matter the pairing, like Hamhuis and Tanev are (which is why I think it is stupid that they are paired). Bieksa is much the same, and it's beginning to look like Garrison is as well...

If we had have lucked out and one of Edler or Bieksa could have had chemistry with Garrison, things would be looking much better on the back end. Unfortunately, this isn't the case, and we're sick with a bunch of payers with the same problem.

This is why Stanton has been such a good pickup; he offers Bieksa what Salo offered Edler (defensively).

My hope for the Diaz pickup is that he does this for one of Edler or Garrison... And we trade the other IMO.

 

[TheWanderer]

Posts like these always have and always will scare me. You don't take your best players and put them in positions for them to fail. In addition Edler is a -18 from having bad luck and a partner that routinely leaves him out to dry. Edler has been our best defenseman again over last two weeks of actual games and as seen from his olympic performance is a great defenseman.

Griping that he should be on his off-side and make him still play with same partners doesn't make much sense considering he is slower to adapt and he has had a revolving door of partners. If you have a constant rotation going on you don't mess with your best players, it doesn't make sense, you make the lesser players adapt as the skilled player has and will continue to carry the pairing as stated before.

Bad luck? Hung out to dry by his partners? Best Dan in a seven game losing streak?



I mean, I agree not to switch Edler to RH, but Edler has been the team's worst defenseman since the start of 11/12. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

I mean, I agree not to switch Edler to RH, but Edler has been the team's worst defenseman since the start of 11/12. Don't kid yourself.

 

[Outside99*]

For those wondering about the -18, Edler's GA/60 is within range of the others. Its his GF/60 that is atrocious - normalized, he'd be near 0. Part of the reason is who he's playing with up front - his TOI with the Sedins is the lowest its ever been. The other part is the system - if traded, its not a given IMO that he'll flourish everywhere. In comparison, GF/60 in 2009 was almost 3x higher.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

A broken down Zamboni could catch Edler flat footed more days than not.

 

[TheWanderer]

Don't misunderstand the context in which I make that claim. He's not a bad payer, but he is one of the most mercurial players I have seen in a long time concerning chemistry. If he has good chemistry, he is amazing (and he is not just made to look good. He actually is good). If there is no chemistry, he is absolutely atrocious on all zones of the ice. He hasn't had chemistry with anybody since Ehrhoff, period.

Any moves in this regard will undoubtedly be delayed until off-season. By that time, Diaz will have either shown who he fits with, or that he fits with no one.

If he fits with Edler, then great! But that leaves us needing to trade Garrison.
If he fits with Garrison, we trade Edler.
Stanton-Bieksa stays, and Hamhuis-Tanev remains a shutdown pairing I suppose.

I still think this team needs a true #1, but we haven't had one for 40 years... Why should we start now, right?

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Don't misunderstand the context in which I make that claim. He's not a bad payer, but he is one of the most mercurial players I have seen in a long time concerning chemistry. If he has good chemistry, he is amazing (and he is not just made to look good. He actually is good). If there is no chemistry, he is absolutely atrocious on all zones of the ice. He hasn't had chemistry with anybody since Ehrhoff, period.

Any moves in this regard will undoubtedly be delayed until off-season. By that time, Diaz will have either shown who he fits with, or that he fits with no one.

If he fits with Edler, then great! But that leaves us needing to trade Garrison.
If he fits with Garrison, we trade Edler.
Stanton-Bieksa stays, and Hamhuis-Tanev remains a shutdown pairing I suppose.

I still think this team needs a true #1, but we haven't had one for 40 years... Why should we start now, right?

First of all, saying Edler's been our worst defenseman is a gross exaggeration. He's been by far our most consistent offensive defenseman. Is he perfect defensively? No. But neither are guys like Karlsson, Letang, Byfuglien, etc. Second of all, if he hasn't had chemistry with anyone since Ehrhoff why did he have his career high in points after Erhoff left?

Edler has had a 20-game stretch this season of bad play in between his suspension and his injury. For some reason that seems to have taken over in people's minds as the only way Edler will ever be able to play, despite the fact that he's been our best defenseman since coming back from injury(imo). His great Olympics only helps strengthen the fact that his cold streak a while back was an aberration.

You don't see anywhere near as many Daniel/Kesler/Burrows/Bieksa proposals even though they've had similar if not worse slumps over the same period of time, despite the fact that all of them are older and make more sense to ship out in the even of a rebuild or "retool" for youth.

 

[TheWanderer]

First of all, saying Edler's been our worst defenseman is a gross exaggeration. He's been by far our most consistent offensive defenseman. Is he perfect defensively? No. But neither are guys like Karlsson, Letang, Byfuglien, etc. Second of all, if he hasn't had chemistry with anyone since Ehrhoff why did he have his career high in points after Erhoff left?

Edler has had a 20-game stretch this season of bad play in between his suspension and his injury. For some reason that seems to have taken over in people's minds as the only way Edler will ever be able to play, despite the fact that he's been our best defenseman since coming back from injury(imo). His great Olympics only helps strengthen the fact that his cold streak a while back was an aberration.

You don't see anywhere near as many Daniel/Kesler/Burrows/Bieksa proposals even though they've had similar if not worse slumps over the same period of time, despite the fact that all of them are older and make more sense to ship out in the even of a rebuild or "retool" for youth.

I've said this top you more time than I can count. He had played terrible hockey for far longer than 20 games. Feeding off the twins while they were still putting up very high points is hardly an accomplishment, and since it is his only accomplishment, it is being too far too slow for the free pass you seem to be giving him.

I can respect that you're a big Edler fan, because when things line up properly for him he is a great player. However, you really need to take the rose colored glasses off.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

I've said this top you more time than I can count. He had played terrible hockey for far longer than 20 games. Feeding off the twins while they were still putting up very high points is hardly an accomplishment, and since it is his only accomplishment, it is being too far too slow for the free pass you seem to be giving him.

I can respect that you're a big Edler fan, because when things line up properly for him he is a great player. However, you really need to take the rose colored glasses off.

Well I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, but personally I think that anyone who thinks Edler's been our worst defenseman obviously has not been watching the games, or has on whatever the opposite of rose-coloured glasses are when it comes to Edler.

 

[TheWanderer]

Well I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, but personally I think that anyone who thinks Edler's been our worst defenseman obviously has not been watching the games, or has on whatever the opposite of rose-coloured glasses are when it comes to Edler.

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree with somebody who doesn't have a clue. Cheers!

 

[Vankiller Whale]

I'm more than happy to agree to disagree with somebody who doesn't have a clue. Cheers!

No hard feelings.

I'll be sure to take Andrew Alberts over Edler in my next draft for my fantasy pool.

 

[Shareefruck]

I mean, I agree not to switch Edler to RH, but Edler has been the team's worst defenseman since the start of 11/12. Don't kid yourself.

Don't misunderstand the context in which I make that claim. He's not a bad payer, but he is one of the most mercurial players I have seen in a long time concerning chemistry.

Misunderstand the context in which "Edler has been the team's worst defenseman since the start of 11/12" is used? That's a cut and dry statement regardless of context.