Alain Vigneault Named Head Coach Part 2

[deadhead]

Okay? So would I — Dobson is a beaut on his ELC. But I thought we were talking about Tampa and Cooper....?

Trotz has his strengths, but handling young players and not overvaluing plugs are not among them. Dobson, a rookie, played 34 games in the regular season with inconsistent usage and 0 games in the bubble. Better to compare him to Frost than Ghost. Luckily for Trotz, the Islanders prospect pool pales in comparison to the Flyers.

Problem is Ghost really didn't do much in his 4 playoff games, skated well in one game and that was it.
xGF 42.16%, sure better than Hagg, but that's a pretty low bar.

Now at 16 PO games and counting when he has been MIA. 1 ES assist in 16 games just doesn't cut it for an "offensive force."
And his PP performance in 2016 and 2018 PO games was well below his regular season level in both those years.
And he was healthy in those games, so there's something else wrong here.

Right now the only players that have really stood out in the playoffs for the Flyers are Provorov and Couts in 2017-18 and Voracek and Couts this year.
Need more players to step up when it counts.

 

[Adtar02]

Even when ghost looked great he was still removed from the line up. Also saw drastically different competition and teammates than those who replaced him.

it was one of the few things that I really didn’t understand at all.

 

[Rebels57]

Even when ghost looked great he was still removed from the line up. Also saw drastically different competition and teammates than those who replaced him.

it was one of the few things that I really didn’t understand at all.

The explanation your searching for is a one word answer: incompetence.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine still trying to be dishonest after you've been exposed this many times.

There was a significant difference in their play in the playoffs.

​	Ghost​	Hagg​
CF%rel​	+1.99 (2nd best)​	-2.41 (worst)​
xGF%rel​	+9.44 (best)​	-6.58 (worst)​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ghost was clearly our best defensemen in his two last games, probably our best skater overall, but got scapegoated by the incompetent coach. It's indisputable that he was not only far better than Hagg, but one of our best defensemen when he was in the lineup. No lies or cherrypicked stats can change this.

 

[Adtar02]

The explanation your searching for is a one word answer: incompetence.

I mean the drastic difference in usage. If he is replacing Hagg give him the same type of min. I mean equal time with the top line.

Incompetence isn’t enough for me. Cause you are actively making a change in usage. Literally expecting him to carry our bottom six before they got rid of grant and Thompson on separate lines.

 

[deadhead]

It's weirder:

Ghost
CFrel +0.07
xGFrel +6.80

Hagg
CFrel -2.46
xGFrel -6.49

Niskanen
CFrel -0.71
xGFrel +7.00

Provorov
CFrel +0.81
xGFrel +5.89

Sanheim
CFrel -0.98
xGFrel -4.07

Myers
CFrel +3.50
xGFrel -5.66

 

[Chimpradamus]

Every thread seems like revisionist history is happening

I could've written what I did when you hired him, but I only complained on the main boards. As my current affiliation of that time was NYR, I chose not to write about how much Vigneault sucks. I waited until you had seen it with your own eyes. I'm glad you got to see him coach in the playoffs, because that's where he truly shines at his... non-winningness? Then it's just up to the players to ignore what he says.

As far as playing one or two hard working stiffs, what HC doesn't?
For one thing, what team has 18 skilled, reliable players?
For another, HCs often want a certain "type" on their 4th line and 3rd pair, the kind where the eyes don't quite focus.

Cooper is playing L Schenn and Maroon and Bogosian ain't dressing for his skating ability.
Trotz, the man LOVES stiffs, Beagle in Washington? Orpik at 37 in 2017-18 was in free fall. The Isles, stiff city.

The key is to find some stiffs that are decent skaters, feed them some red meat before the game, and let them loose on the world.
AV just needs better stiffs on his bottom six and third pair. Thompson and Grant didn't cut it, and Bunnaman was a year early for the role.

Sure, many coaches see value in energy players that perhaps don't have that much skill, but can drive the possession and push the game up. The problem is when those energy players are seen as this by guys like Vigneault:

But play like this:

Energetic? Yes. Good at winning games? Absolutely not.