Alain Vigneault Named Head Coach, 4/15/19

[Ruck Over]

AV is the best coach we've had in, what, 6 years? So, what's the complain?

Again, that would've been almost anybody with a pulse. Beurbe & Hakstol are probably two of the worst Flyers coaches in the past 25 years. Maybe only Wayne Cashman was out right worse.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Tanner Glass to announce retirement and is expected to join AV as assistant coach. E3

 

[AndHeMissedTheNet]

Mats Zuccarello and AV have a special relationship. Zucc said AV is the best coach he's ever had, and that he owes him a lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zuccarello comes your way as a UFA, I think AV & Zucc would be a great thing for the Flyers.

 

[Ruck Over]

Classic Sam.

He defended Hakstol and Gordon almost all-time. Now he is skeptical about AV. Of course.

This is the best news about AV i've come across so far. If AV insults him in French, I am gonna #faceturn so hard.

 

[deadhead]

Actually, I'd try to sell Gronborg on becoming the AHL coach at a Keefe like salary, because it'll be hard to get a NHL team to gamble on him until he has experience coaching in NA. What works at lower levels may not translate to smaller rinks and better players.
I have trouble imagining Gordon learning to coach AV's scheme in LHV, and actually prepare prospects for the Flyers.

AV has consistently won with good but not great teams, Vancouver had a solid core, Sedins, Burrows, Kesler, Hansen and Erhoff, Bieksa, Edler, Hamhuis on defense, Luongo in goal, but not exceptional depth or a transcendent player. Same in NY, he only had Stralman for his 1st season, and a bunch of solid 2nd and 3rd line forwards, Zuc, Pouliot, Kreider, Hagelin, Nash, Brassard, Richards, J Miller, and McDonaugh on defense. The rest of the defense was meh, Girardi, Staal, J Moore, Klein, MDZ. Of course he had Lundqvist, but past his peak years.

It's hard to argue that he was ever gifted a team as good as the one Trotz took to the Cup last year.

 

[Chinatown88]

This is the best news about AV i've come across so far. If AV insults him in French, I am gonna #faceturn so hard.

I seriously want him to reply in French. They would be too dumbfounded to look it up.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Almost assuredly. I'm resigned to the fact that I'm a fan of a team since 1972 that hasn't won since I was 14 and will never win the Cup again in my lifetime no matter how long I live. It's a mediocre corporate clown show. We needed Mozart; we got Salieri across the board. The whole organization is dull, which explains why they were dazzled by the shiny coach. They don't have a clue among them.

I'm gonna nitpick and point out that Salieri was actually a great composer

 

[Larry44]

I'm gonna nitpick and point out that Salieri was actually a great composer

Point taken, but still a mediocrity in the script.

 

[Ruck Over]

Appreciate the depth of the reply, and that you had a preference. Grönborg had been an intriguing name, but I think given the timing and the catastrophic failure of the team's last outsider coach, it was just inevitable that they were going to go for a guy with an NHL resume (for better or for worse).

Bringing in Grönborg and having him not succeed, or not succeed quickly, would have been catastrophic for a franchise teetering hard on the edge of irrelevance, both in its own local sports market and in the NHL itself. Sure, if it works it's one thing, but there's no guarantees with anything. You fear the notion that the Flyers aren't an attractive player destination now, imagine what happens if they make an audacious coaching decision and implode for another losing or middling two seasons. That sees your fears realized more than anything.

Vigneault is a pretty known quantity with a pretty strong track record. For what it's worth, "stubborn" is a descriptor used for essentially every person who ascends to an NHL coaching job. It becomes a criticism mostly when people want to use it that way, but I don't think you'll find two many NHL coaches, good or bad, who can't be described as "stubborn." Former players seem to like Vigneault pretty well, and he's got a pretty good reputation around the league.

I see it differently: I think it's more a signal to prospective players that the team has committed to an NHL coach and to improving now, whereas an off-the-wall hire would have been more of "hey we've been a mess for six years, come sign this seven year deal and play for another experiment, we swear we were right about it this time."

We don't know how things go down or how things are perceived, so it's just guesses on our part. Is it a safe choice? In a sense, but that's how business choices sometimes have to be made. I don't think in this case that "safe" is a slur, though.

Former players also said nice things about John Stevens.

The stubborn I'll grant you in essence. Assuredly one must have the courage of their convictions to make it as far as an NHL HC, to a detractor that's stubborn, conceded. However, my point stands and was likely misstated, instead of stubborn, it's willful blinders. That could not be construed into a positive, and is closer to the sentiment of former NYR fans, and my contention.

And I just don't buy that making the safe choice is the right choice. That going in on a rookie HC after Hakstol was not possible. The Lightning, of all clubs, have been fearless in hiring coaches. 1st time for - Torts, Tocchet, Boucher, & now Cooper. (Throw in one-year of Barry Melrose which began and ended in macabre humorous fashion.) Torts won a Cup. Boucher appeared like a good coach at first and went on for a second job^. Tocchet appeared like a bad coach the first time, but now looks like a good coach now. And few would call Cooper a bad coach, especially when looking from the outside in.
Hiring Cooper is far-fetched, he's under contract. Trading for him even more unrealistic. But that's what I want for the Flyers, an innovative coach, the next best new guy. Maybe on stop 4, AV turns a corner, but I'm doubtful.
^I'm not the biggest Boucher fan, and the uber video by the Sens players does a lot of damage. But judging him by Ottawa results is cruel, because that's a joke organization with a wretched owner, and at best try-hard GM.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

This signing is going to be a disaster, isn't it...?

Yes, possibly. You never know, though - it could work out somehow. Personally I think the best we can hope for is some playoff rounds where we are fighting hard and advancing a ways and are cheering our nuts off, while at the same time we are raging at what he is doing and hating his guts passionately and seeing ways that we could be doing better if he were doing things slightly differently. The worst we can fear is ... more of the same we have had.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Classic Sam.

He defended Hakstol and Gordon almost all-time. Now he is skeptical about AV. Of course.

The “skeptical” article was written by Mike Sielski, not Sam.

 

[C0DITH]

Mats Zuccarello and AV have a special relationship. Zucc said AV is the best coach he's ever had, and that he owes him a lot.

I wouldn't be surprised if Zuccarello comes your way as a UFA, I think AV & Zucc would be a great thing for the Flyers.

Would love MZ, he has what the Flyers need desperately in additional vet leadership, help tremendously in the locker room, and still has enough skill to help at say a 3C level.

Giroux-Coots-Konecny
Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek
JVR-Zuccs-Frost

I could definitely get behind a top9 of that degree.

 

[magnumpi]

Yikes, it must suck being this old and crabby.

I worked on this project a couple yrs ago in Puerto Rico where I was in my early 40's. I was the youngest person on this 45-50 person project.
Most people were 65 plus.

These old guys had such a negative outlook on everything. It was draining to be around.
"Oh you're learning the guitar, why do you want to do that at your age"
"You're working on a novel, good luck getting it published"

 

[Beef Invictus]

Classic Sam.

He defended Hakstol and Gordon almost all-time. Now he is skeptical about AV. Of course.

This is how a ton of people who become a hardcore true believer in a bad coach operate. We saw it with Stevens too. And Berube (ended up working out lol), and again with Hakstol.

 

[Curufinwe]

I seriously want him to reply in French. They would be too dumbfounded to look it up.

Carchidi: Is Hart your starting goalie?

AV: Oui.

@BroadStBull Flyer coach says Carter Hart smells like wee.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Point taken, but still a mediocrity in the script.

Yeah, as a movie fan I saw what you did there, but as a guy who took a year of in depth music history I had to say something. Someone has to stick up for the poor guy.

 

[Rebels57]

Would love MZ, he has what the Flyers need desperately in additional vet leadership, help tremendously in the locker room, and still has enough skill to help at say a 3C level.

Giroux-Coots-Konecny
Lindblom-Patrick-Voracek
JVR-Zuccs-Frost

I could definitely get behind a top9 of that degree.

Zuccarello is a winger, so maybe you swap him and Frost in that scenario.

He's a last resort type of acquisition though, and I don't want to give a player of his age (31) and calibre a long-term deal (4-5 years is what i'm sure he will be looking for).

 

[Beef Invictus]

I worked on this project a couple yrs ago in Puerto Rico where I was in my early 40's. I was the youngest person on this 45-50 person project.
Most people were 65 plus.

These old guys had such a negative outlook on everything. It was draining to be around.
"Oh you're learning the guitar, why do you want to do that at your age"
"You're working on a novel, good luck getting it published"

Ok your life has been maybe too heavy on the crushed dreams if there is a need to poop on someone for taking up guitar at 40

 

[dragonoffrost]

I'm gonna nitpick and point out that Salieri was actually a great composer

wasn't Mozart accused of taking Salieri's work?

 

[raydavies29]

Tanner Glass to announce retirement and is expected to join AV as assistant coach. E3

 

[raydavies29]

just as long as this guy comes with him... he's the v in av

any ideas on av's nick name... audio visual? audio video ? the face?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Anyway, my thoughts on various things I've seen in this thread (because I know you're all dying to hear them):

• You guys definitely got the best coach on the market.
• Damn, that's a lot of years on the contract.
• I don't watch a lot of Rangers games and don't follow that team very closely, so I have no idea what weird chimera AV became in his last days in NYC, but he remains the best coach the Canucks ever had. Things ended up slipping away from him in the end here, but that happens to every coach eventually. And there was more going on here that just the coach losing his touch. He went from a trapping anti-hockey guru who snarled at everyone who didn't speak French to a very forward-thinking always-attack master of linematching and deployment. Sure, he had his inexplicable favourites in Glass and Rome, but compared to the clumps we've had behind bench since he left I'd take him back in Vancouver in a heartbeat. And Green's even been okay with the crap roster he's got, but AV still towers over him.
• "Play the game between the whistles"? Yeah, don't know who said that's his thing. Uh...nope.
• Can be a bit of a prickly pear with the media but **** them.
• Hodgson's big issues were chronic injuries and psycho hockey parents, not AV. Okay, they weren't on great terms, but Hodgson's issues were more with management. And someone on the Canucks' medical staff misdiagnosed his back ailments which is what led to a lot of problems when the team was questioning his work ethic and commitment in the press. And this problem of doctors misdiagnosing things has got a LOT worse under Benning. Just pop by the Canucks' board for a quick rundown. As I followed along with Hodgson's development, every time his agent was mentioned, it was somebody new. For a while it was JP Barry. Then someone else. Then another guy. And that always struck me as weird. Then he was traded and Gillis said publicly that he spent more time dealing with Hodgson than any other player. So AV wasn't the main problem. Also, Hodgson retired from the NHL after being diagnosed with malignant hyperthermia brought on by a genetic condition nobody knew he had. Not because he didn't want to be an AHLer.
• Grabner was competing with a spot for Raymond and Raymond won. He didn't even make the team he was traded to initially and only became a decent player after being claimed on waivers by NYI, AV didn't ruin him. He just didn't do dick with the opportunity he had here.
• AV is better than any coach currently on the market. IIRC I mentioned that. I wish him and the Flyers well. I have no hard feelings about him at all.

That's encouraging - thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Zuccarello is a winger, so maybe you swap him and Frost in that scenario.

He's a last resort type of acquisition though, and I don't want to give a player of his age (31) and calibre a long-term deal (4-5 years is what i'm sure he will be looking for).

He is a really good player and far from a Amac last resort type. Certainly he will look for 4-5 but given he knows the system and coach he might take 3 to be where he is comfortable.

 

[Jtown]

The “skeptical” article was written by Mike Sielski, not Sam.

sielski makes some good points and its one of the reasons why i wanted an established nhl player type like a dineen . The flyers need a disciplinarian more than a friend. Gordon brought that a bit, but i would like to see a coach do that more