Alain Vigneault Named Head Coach, 4/15/19

[bennysflyers16]

Let's all remember the night Benny was the voice of reason

How f***ed up is that ??

The ONLY fear we should have is Raffl playing in the top 9, and even I’m not freaking out about that




Yet

 

[bauer]

i'm with benny, we don't really have any trash players left aside from Hagg. and he will hopefully be traded soon.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Both Leddy and Hjalmarsson were 22/23 when they became NHL regulars, same as Tanev. Not sure what your point is. Matt Walker played 65 games for the Hawks in 2008-2009 while a 21 year old Hjalmarsson split time between the NHL and AHL.

Regardless, if this is the one example that you can pick out in roughly a decade of coaching where AV may have held a guy back one year too long, something tells me your argument stinks.

Actually Nick Leddy became a regular at age 20 and played in a 7 game playoff series fully as a 19 yr old

And Hammer was injured for chunk of his rookie year in AHL and then came to Hawks fulltime in later half of his 2nd year as 21 yr old and by the playoffs as 21 yr old was a top 4 defender as rookie

May I ask why are you so defensive about V? I mean his track record is established for the good and the bad

 

[Rebels57]

Haag and imo Raffl,, that’s it. 2 guys.
I’m not even remotely concerned, and Haag can’t even come close to playing the style he wants his D to play. Non issue

Talk is cheap. He never once had a Defense at any point in his Van and NY tenures that didnt include a plug. Ill believe in his "style" when he backs it up with action.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Talk is cheap. He never once had a Defense at any point in his Van and NY tenures that didnt include a plug. Ill believe in his "style" when he backs it up with action.

He isn’t the GM as far as I know. Replace Haag with a UFA and I don’t care which D he over plays

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

i'm with benny, we don't really have any trash players left aside from Hagg. and he will hopefully be traded soon.

That’s assuming Fletcher won’t add any himself.

 

[deadhead]

Both Leddy and Hjalmarsson were 22/23 when they became NHL regulars, same as Tanev. Not sure what your point is. Matt Walker played 65 games for the Hawks in 2008-2009 while a 21 year old Hjalmarsson split time between the NHL and AHL.

Regardless, if this is the one example that you can pick out in roughly a decade of coaching where AV may have held a guy back one year too long, something tells me your argument stinks.

Players who are later round picks or undrafted usually take longer to make it to the NHL, for obvious reasons, if they were NHL ready, they'd be high draft picks. Duh.

And players often get PT for a year or two then fade away forever, people here got all excited about Gufstaffson a few years ago, he hasn't been heard from since.

Cam Barker (#3-2004) started at 22 for Q, by 24 his career was effectively over. Guess Q buried him?
Hjalmarsson played at 21 b/c Chicago's depth was brutal, Barker as the #4, and Walker, a replacement player at best, as the other alternative.
Same reason Leddy at 19 played ahead of 38 year old Cullimore and 26 year old Hendry (who played 1 more NHL game after that season).

 

[deadhead]

Talk is cheap. He never once had a Defense at any point in his Van and NY tenures that didnt include a plug. Ill believe in his "style" when he backs it up with action.

But that's basically the fault of his GMs, Sather especially was showing signs of senility his last 5-6 years in NY.
I mean he had one good defenseman, a couple veterans decaying in front of his eyes, their best prospect was a total flop
Sather brought in a parade of veteran scrubs, but couldn't draft a defenseman to save his life or trade for a solid one.

 

[baudib1]

For those who like to bring up Ryan Kesler's name when talking about Patrick's slow development, AV is the coach who shepherded Kesler to his prime form.

 

[flyershockey]

Actually Nick Leddy became a regular at age 20 and played in a 7 game playoff series fully as a 19 yr old

And Hammer was injured for chunk of his rookie year in AHL and then came to Hawks fulltime in later half of his 2nd year as 21 yr old and by the playoffs as 21 yr old was a top 4 defender as rookie

May I ask why are you so defensive about V? I mean his track record is established for the good and the bad

Leddy was a first rounder. His draft pedigree was always going to lead to a quicker transition to the NHL versus a UDFA.

Hjalmarsson was hurt as a 21 year old yet played 52 AHL games (and another 21 in the NHL) that year not including the playoffs.

I'm not defensive over AV. I've said in this very thread that I'm indifferent to the hire. I'm defensive over people who aren't Flyers fans parading over to this board in order to grandstand with horseshit arguments.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Players who are later round picks or undrafted usually take longer to make it to the NHL, for obvious reasons, if they were NHL ready, they'd be high draft picks. Duh.

And players often get PT for a year or two then fade away forever, people here got all excited about Gufstaffson a few years ago, he hasn't been heard from since.

Cam Barker (#3-2004) started at 22 for Q, by 24 his career was effectively over. Guess Q buried him?
Hjalmarsson played at 21 b/c Chicago's depth was brutal, Barker as the #4, and Walker, a replacement player at best, as the other alternative.
Same reason Leddy at 19 played ahead of 38 year old Cullimore and 26 year old Hendry (who played 1 more NHL game after that season).

Cam Barker was not very good and Q and Hawks moved on from him after seeing enough

It was Mr Barker who buried his career not Q or Hawks

And in Vancouver they had guys like Rome , Alberts and Barker that he played at times over Tanev. Thanks for further proving my point

 

[Bigkarl]

Unknowns?

Are you suggesting that you aren’t aware of how the rest of the hockey world stacks up against the retreads?

Are you suggesting that any one without some degree of experience and demonstrable success in the NHL was ever a legitimate option? Or should we interview every one who has ever coached hockey in any league in the world in hopes that we find one that really knocks our socks off in an interview? Due diligence and all...

 

[The Madrigal]

Great hire. His resume speaks for itself. For a team who hasn't won a playoff round in almost a decade he is a huge improvement. Also, Flyers hockey has been stale and boring for a long time now. Under him they are going to attack like hell and score a lot of goals, so if nothing else the product will fun to watch again.

I seriously can't stop laughing at the people who continue to trash this hire. For one thing, there wasn't much out there and he was clearly the most accomplished coach available. For another, every coach will like certain players more than they should and make some questionable decisions from time to time. When that's the best you can do it makes it pretty obvious that you are just a miserable person who needs something to complain about it.

Moving forward if the Flyers can get that veteran second line center and top four D they need there is no doubt in my mind they are a playoff team next season. I'm not ready to make any definitive judgments on Fletcher just yet. However, so far he has done all of the right things and what he said at the end of the year tells me he understands what he needs to do and what direction the organization needs to take this off-season.

 

[baudib1]

Great hire. His resume speaks for itself. For a team who hasn't won a playoff round in almost a decade he is a huge improvement. Also, Flyers hockey has been stale and boring for a long time now. Under him they are going to attack like hell and score a lot of goals, so if nothing else the product will fun to watch again.

I seriously can't stop laughing at the people who continue to trash this hire. For one thing, there wasn't much out there and he was clearly the most accomplished coach available. For another, every coach will like certain players more than they should and make some questionable decisions from time to time. When that's the best you can do it makes it pretty obvious that you are just a miserable person who needs something to complain about it.

Moving forward if the Flyers can get that veteran second line center and top four D they need there is no doubt in my mind they are a playoff team next season. I'm not ready to make any definitive judgments on Fletcher just yet. However, so far he has done all of the right things and what he said at the end of the year tells me he understands what he needs to do and what direction the organization needs to take this off-season.

"Great hire" is overselling it a bit. This is the NHL equivalent of hiring Andy Reid. He's an upgrade, will probably get us past the first round very soon. Is he going to dramatically change the fortunes of the team over an average hire? Maybe.

It's a fine move. That kinda sums up everything Fletcher has done so far. If you believe that Hextall left the team in such great shape that all we need is a decent coach and to not give the farm away, you probably think that's terrific.

I would have preferred a swing-for-the-fences move but this will do for now.

 

[deadhead]

There are questions about AV, but the issues that have been brought up are nonsense, like most HCs, he favors hard nosed veteran forwards in the bottom six - for one thing, fast finesse prospects belong in the AHL if they can't win a regular 3rd line role b/c they have little value otherwise. The advantage that Frost and Farabee bring is they're high IQ players who can play defense and contribute on an aggressive PK scheme with their speed.

As far as defense, I think there was a disconnect in NY between him and Sather as far as the type of player he wanted.

Now what I'd like to know is what kind of input he had in trades and who they traded for in Van and NY.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Vigneault takes two separate organizations to the Cup finals with non-powerhouse rosters;
9 out of his last 12 seasons his teams reach 100+ points (if you prorate the lockout season);
and three times his teams finish with the best reg. season record in the NHL;
but some people want to focus on the fact that he dressed Tanner Glass as his 12th forward during a playoff run to the Eastern Conference Final and cite that as evidence that he's a bad hire.

Who was even on the Rangers roster that season who so clearly deserved to play over Glass in the playoffs but was scratched? I sure don't see anyone.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Vigneault takes two separate organizations to the Cup finals with non-powerhouse rosters;
9 out of his last 12 seasons his teams reach 100+ points (if you prorate the lockout season);
and three times his teams finish with the best reg. season record in the NHL;
but some people want to focus on the fact that he dressed Tanner Glass as his 12th forward during a playoff run to the Eastern Conference Final and cite that as evidence that he's a bad hire.

Who was even on the Rangers roster that season who so clearly deserved to play over Glass in the playoffs but was scratched? I sure don't see anyone.

That Canucks team was certainly a powerhouse

And Rangers he took over were already a playoff team with a pretty damn good roster overall (Had lost in ECF in 2012 in 6 games as well) so its not like he walked into NY and rebuilt a franchise

 

[The Madrigal]

"Great hire" is overselling it a bit. This is the NHL equivalent of hiring Andy Reid. He's an upgrade, will probably get us past the first round very soon. Is he going to dramatically change the fortunes of the team over an average hire? Maybe.

It's a fine move. That kinda sums up everything Fletcher has done so far. If you believe that Hextall left the team in such great shape that all we need is a decent coach and to not give the farm away, you probably think that's terrific.

I would have preferred a swing-for-the-fences move but this will do for now.

To me it's a great hire because it's the right hire. You can't just skip over from being trash to being a cup winning team. They haven't won a playoff round in almost 10 years. AV is the type of the coach who will get them into the playoffs next year which will give the young players some much needed experience playing in April. It's all about moving forward and making progress at this point, which is something Hextall was too stubborn to realize last off-season. Fletcher and the Flyers don't need to make big huge moves to turn things around, they need to make the right moves and AV is just that.

 

[wuf]

He's a winning coach, he's been to two finals. I don't care how he gets us there, just get it done AV. Now....we just need to buy out Amac and snag Panarin or some other top end talent.

 

[The Madrigal]

Vigneault takes two separate organizations to the Cup finals with non-powerhouse rosters;
9 out of his last 12 seasons his teams reach 100+ points (if you prorate the lockout season);
and three times his teams finish with the best reg. season record in the NHL;
but some people want to focus on the fact that he dressed Tanner Glass as his 12th forward during a playoff run to the Eastern Conference Final and cite that as evidence that he's a bad hire.

Who was even on the Rangers roster that season who so clearly deserved to play over Glass in the playoffs but was scratched? I sure don't see anyone.

Don't bother trying to use facts when it comes to this conversation. Some Rangers fans hated him during his last year there and he played Tanner Glass way too much at a whopping 10 minutes a night.

 

[Striiker]

Sometimes it’s fun to just be a spectator in these types of threads.

Don’t mind me, I’m just over here behaving myself like a good noodle.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Haag and imo Raffl,, that’s it. 2 guys.
I’m not even remotely concerned, and Haag can’t even come close to playing the style he wants his D to play. Non issue

 

[Ghosts Beer]

That Canucks team was certainly a powerhouse

And Rangers he took over were already a playoff team with a pretty damn good roster overall (Had lost in ECF in 2012 in 6 games as well) so its not like he walked into NY and rebuilt a franchise

The Vancouver roster he inherited was good, but no powerhouse. They were never a top 5 talented team in the NHL. And definitely neither were the Rangers, who overachieved under both Torts and Vigneault, who are both excellent coaches who tend to get results that exceed their teams' talent levels.

 

[Dodospice]

For everyone saying AV is a bad hire, who would have been better? I see a lot of people making this claim but not many suggesting alternatives that are better options then AV is.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Haag and imo Raffl,, that’s it. 2 guys.
I’m not even remotely concerned, and Haag can’t even come close to playing the style he wants his D to play. Non issue