Ak Bars Kazan 2013/14 season talk

[Peter25]

What's our 2014/15 lines going to look like with S.Kostitsyn joining the team?

Maybe something like this?

Mikhail Varnakov - Alexander Burmistrov - Tim Stapleton
Igor Mirnov - Vadim Shipachyov - Sergei Kostitsyn
Janne Pesonen - Fedor Malykhin - Kirill Petrov
Alexander Svitov - Alexei Tereschenko - Tomas Vincour
(on reserve: Evgeny Bodrov, Dimitri Obukhov, Artem Lukonyanov, Vladimir Tkachyov and Denis Golubov)

Evgeny Medvedev - Shaun Heshka
Konstantin Korneyev - Ilya Nikulin
Yakov Rylov - Grigori Panin
Stepan Zakharchuk - Alexander Osipov

Emil Garipov
Anders Nilsson

The team is ridiculously stocked up front. Defense is good but Nikulin has slowed down and Panin is injury-prone, so defense is this team's weakest link. Goaltending looks really solid.

I think Ak Bars should trade young forwards Tkachyov and Golubev to a team like Nizhnekamsk where they would be getting playing time and develop. Especially Tkachyov has great potential to develop, but he is not going to play a lot in this team.

This team also has five top-notch centers in Burmistrov, Shipachyov, Malykhin, Tereschenko and Svitov. Bodrov is also a good center so that actually makes it six.

As I said I think this team should either trade or loan some of these players to other KHL teams. It is not good for the league if guys like Bodrov and Tkachyov have to sit in stands or play in the farm team when in many other teams they would be go-to guys.

EDIT: Actually Mirnov is a center too so that makes it seven good centers in a one team.

 

[Peter25]

Actually I think they should get rid of the useless Vincour and sign a quality foreign defenseman. Right now the team has 5 foreigners so they cannot sign another foreigner until they release one.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What's our 2014/15 lines going to look like with S.Kostitsyn joining the team?

I think there's absolutely no person in the world who could answer this.

P.S. Peter, Sergei is playing LW, Vincour probably too since that was his position throughout his Ak Bars career, Mirnov and Varnakov surely RW and Scipachyov isn't even on the team I'd say purely depth chart-like roster (with keeping Tereschenko-Petrov connection in tact) would be:

Kostitsyn-Burmi-Stapleton
Pesonen-Malykhin-Mirnov
Vincour-Tereschenko-Petrov
Obukhov-Svitov-Budrov

That third line can be a real thing but other than that and only if so only time will tell

 

[Hilly1]

Maybe something like this?

Mikhail Varnakov - Alexander Burmistrov - Tim Stapleton
Igor Mirnov - Vadim Shipachyov - Sergei Kostitsyn
Janne Pesonen - Fedor Malykhin - Kirill Petrov
Alexander Svitov - Alexei Tereschenko - Tomas Vincour
(on reserve: Evgeny Bodrov, Dimitri Obukhov, Artem Lukonyanov, Vladimir Tkachyov and Denis Golubov)

Evgeny Medvedev - Shaun Heshka
Konstantin Korneyev - Ilya Nikulin
Yakov Rylov - Grigori Panin
Stepan Zakharchuk - Alexander Osipov

Emil Garipov
Anders Nilsson

The team is ridiculously stocked up front. Defense is good but Nikulin has slowed down and Panin is injury-prone, so defense is this team's weakest link. Goaltending looks really solid.

I think Ak Bars should trade young forwards Tkachyov and Golubev to a team like Nizhnekamsk where they would be getting playing time and develop. Especially Tkachyov has great potential to develop, but he is not going to play a lot in this team.

This team also has five top-notch centers in Burmistrov, Shipachyov, Malykhin, Tereschenko and Svitov. Bodrov is also a good center so that actually makes it six.

As I said I think this team should either trade or loan some of these players to other KHL teams. It is not good for the league if guys like Bodrov and Tkachyov have to sit in stands or play in the farm team when in many other teams they would be go-to guys.

EDIT: Actually Mirnov is a center too so that makes it seven good centers in a one team.

Thanks I had somewhat of the same idea but without Shipachyov

 

[SoundAndFury]

EDIT: Actually Mirnov is a center too so that makes it seven good centers in a one team.

Actually Mirnov has played RW his whole life It's better to say nothing than you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Hilly1]

I strongly believe that Ak Bars could be the best or close to the best at offense in the league. I already know we have one of the best Defenses and to be strong at every position is a huge step towards reclaiming the Gagarin. Saying all that chemistry is another key factor to a great offence.

 

[Peter25]

Actually Mirnov has played RW his whole life It's better to say nothing than you have no idea what you're talking about.

Mirnov has played center in his career, for example when he played in Sibir in a line with Jonas Enlund and Ville Nieminen. So it's you who have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Peter25]

I strongly believe that Ak Bars could be the best or close to the best at offense in the league. I already know we have one of the best Defenses and to be strong at every position is a huge step towards reclaiming the Gagarin. Saying all that chemistry is another key factor to a great offence.

I'm not sure about that. This is a good defense but not the best in the league, maybe not even top five.

 

[Hilly1]

I'm not sure about that. This is a good defense but not the best in the league, maybe not even top five.

Well atleast one of the most producing defenses with a great captain leading it and to me that speaks top 5 plus we usually have one of the most defenseman in the olympics.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Mirnov has played center in his career, for example when he played in Sibir in a line with Jonas Enlund and Ville Nieminen. So it's you who have no idea what you are talking about.

And that line lasted how long? 5 games? 10? Case in point, he has only taken 51 face-off that season. However, I went as far as checking for the exact date, that line was broken up for the game on 14th of October against Avto.

Granted, he may have (ok, has) played center at some point of his career for a few games having said that in no way, shape or form can he be called or considered to be a center.

Going a bit more on topic, yeah, Ak Bars team really does look great on paper. These top1, top5, top10 etc. rankings are silly and hard to make but sure, team looks great. Lacks size a bit.

 

[Hilly1]

I agree we definitely have a great team on paper but so has a lot of teams but in the end it didn't work out. It's all about how good the players blend together in both the offensive and defensive zone and also how Garipov or Nilsson play but behind a great defence they both should do fine!

P.s sorry about quote screw up

 

[SoundAndFury]

also how Garipov or Nilsson play but behind a great defence they both should do fine!

Defense was pretty much the same this year, Barulin still has looked like a hot garbage so it's not a given.

I'm not really sold on Belov's system too. With players like that Ak Bars should be a monsters of puck possession and in reality they are the opposite of that basically trading chances whole game long other than maybe Petrov turning on the beast mode for a few shifts and using his size for puck-protection and recovery.

 

[Hilly1]

Defense was pretty much the same this year, Barulin still has looked like a hot garbage so it's not a given.

I'm not really sold on Belov's system too. With players like that Ak Bars should be a monsters of puck possession and in reality they are the opposite of that.

I'm not saying it's a given but I personally think they should be fine and regarding that posession thing I think it will turn around due to their big additions like Kostitsyn because he is a great player on the offensive side.

 

[Peter25]

I'm not saying it's a given but I personally think they should be fine and regarding that posession thing I think it will turn around due to their big additions like Kostitsyn because he is a great player on the offensive side.

I think he meant that Belov played this team with defense oriented trap when they should play more offensive minded and aggressive style like Znarok's Dynamo Moscow has been playing in recent years.

This passive defense oriented trapping style is a cancer that has been spreading in Russian hockey. Too many teams play this style of game.

The Russian national team and Dynamo Moscow under Znarok are good role models for other Russian club teams. High forechecking. High tempo and fast skating. Pass the puck back to own end instead of dumping it in. Etc. This is how Ak Bars should play next season.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I'm not saying it's a given but I personally think they should be fine and regarding that posession thing I think it will turn around due to their big additions like Kostitsyn because he is a great player on the offensive side.

I was implying you said that, just made an observation

And those players sure are great but I think it's not about the players, just Belov's outdated style of tactics and unless the player is very strong puck possession player by nature (again, Petrov) they are not being put into position to do very well. Like Burmi's line, no question they all are very good players but the line itself was anything but dominant and relied mostly on PP to score. Even strength - not so much. And overall, Burmi - 37 points, Stapleton - 33, Varnakov - 23.. These are seriously bad stats and it's not like these players were not relied on to score, they just didn't/couldn't.

 

[Hilly1]

I was implying you said that, just made an observation

And those players sure are great but I think it's not about the players, just Belov's outdated style of tactics and unless the player is very strong puck possession player by nature (again, Petrov) they are not being put into position to do very well. Like Burmi's line, no question they all are very good players but the line itself was anything but dominant and relied mostly on PP to score. Even strength - not so much. And overall, Burmi - 37 points, Stapleton - 33, Varnakov - 23.. These are seriously bad stats and it's not like these players were not relied on to score, they just didn't/couldn't.

Actually Tim Stapleton may produce good/great numbers but advance stats show that he is a posession anchor and that Burmi is a posession driver.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Actually Tim Stapleton may produce good/great numbers but advance stats show that he is a posession anchor and that Burmi is a posession driver.

Most pure goal-scorers are unless they have some great wheels or size. Driving possession and strong two-way play isn't really their thing and they live off their centers.

I'm hearing some guy Marian Gaborik has been doing it with moderate success lately and just got his name written on the Stanley Cup.

 

[Hilly1]

Most pure goal-scorers are unless they have some great wheels or size. Driving possession and strong two-way play isn't really their thing and they live off their centers.

I'm hearing some guy Marian Gaborik has been doing it with moderate success lately and just got his name written on the Stanley Cup.

Ya another guy like that was Justin Williams who just happened to win MVP and is one of the best possession player in the league. A lot of great snipers have great possession stats for example Corey Perry. He's a sniper and he still helps his team a lot possession wise.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Ya another guy like that was Justin Williams who just happened to win MVP and is one of the best possession player in the league. A lot of great snipers have great possession stats for example Corey Perry. He's a sniper and he still helps his team a lot possession wise.

Justin Williams has never had a 35-goal season, so.. There's that but never mind it because:

Perry a sniper? Come on What about Lucic, also a sniper?

Perry is a power forward and has 5 100+ PIMs seasons to back it up. There is huge difference between Iginlas, Lucics and Perrys, Hossas, Williamses and Semins, and Gaboriks, Carters aaand.. Stapletons.

Definition goalscorer wasn't invented to define Perrys and Hossas, it was invented to define Bures, Ovechkins, Bossys, Hulls and Stapletons - people who can score but not much else. Those guys existed back then and they continue to play now, nothing wrong with it.

Also, how does 191 cm Perry compare to 173 cm Stapleton? Yes, size is something that helps to drive possession a lot but there's nothing Stapleton can do about and that's why he plays the way he plays and is quite successful at it.

 

[Hilly1]

Justin Williams has never had a 35-goal season, so.. There's that but never mind it because:

Perry a sniper? Come on What about Lucic, also a sniper?

Perry is a power forward and has 5 100+ PIMs seasons to back it up. There is huge difference between Iginlas, Lucics and Perrys, Hossas, Williamses and Semins, and Gaboriks, Carters aaand.. Stapletons.

Definition goalscorer wasn't invented to define Perrys and Hossas, it was invented to define Bures, Ovechkins, Bossys, Hulls and Stapletons - people who can score but not much else. Those guys existed back then and they continue to play now, nothing wrong with it.

Also, how does 191 cm Perry compare to 173 cm Stapleton? Yes, size is something that helps to drive possession a lot but there's nothing Stapleton can do about and that's why he plays the way he plays and is quite successful at it.

Lol Hb Ovechkin? Stamkos? Steen? are they power forwards too cuz again they all are possession drivers. Patty Kane? Marleau? I can go on and on and if you classify Perry and Lucic in the same category then you should get your hockey knowledge fixed! lol Sure they get penalty minutes but has Lucic had a 50 G season or even a 40 G season. Gallagher is shorter then Stapleton and is a possession stud along with Zuccarelo.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Lol Hb Ovechkin? Stamkos? Steen? are they power forwards too cuz again they all are possession drivers. Patty Kane? Marleau? I can go on and on and if you classify Perry and Lucic in the same category then you should get your hockey knowledge fixed! lol Sure they get penalty minutes but has Lucic had a 50 G season or even a 40 G season. Gallagher is shorter then Stapleton and is a possession stud along with Zuccarelo.

I think you are talking about apples and I'm about oranges.

I can just give you a few examples of people who also need to get their hockey knowledges fixed:

wikipedia description:

In ice hockey, power forward (PF) is a loosely applied characterization of a forward who is big and strong, equally capable of playing physically or scoring goals and would most likely have high totals in both points and penalties.[1] It is usually used in reference to a forward who is physically large, with the toughness to dig the puck out of the corners, possesses offensive instincts, has mobility, puck-handling skills,[2][3] may be difficult to knock off the puck[4] and willingly engage in fights when he feels it's required.[5] Possessing both physical size and offensive ability, power forwards are also often referred to as the 'complete' hockey player.

[6][7]Players who have been described as power forwards are Brendan Shanahan,[10][11] Clark Gillies,[12] Jarome Iginla,[5] Kevin Stevens,[13] Mark Messier,[14] Joe Thornton,[15] Ryan Getzlaf,[16] Wendel Clark,[17][18] Milan Lucic[19] and Ryan Smyth,[20]

Getzlaf and Thornton with Lucic and Smyth, who would have thought

I even found this in wikipedia talk:

If you honestly believe that Ovechkin doesn't fall into the category of "power forward," you quite frankly know absolutely nothing about hockey. Ovechkin scored 65 goals last season, he's 6'2", 217 lbs, and ranked #9 in the entire NHL with 220 checks. If he isn't a power forward, then there is no such thing as a power forward. Please, be serious here.

Which is an obvious misconception because no, Ovechkin, Stamkos or
Steen obviously don't fit the description.

Corey Perry, however fits the bill perfectly as mentioned in, for example, this article by Winnipeg media:

From Lucic to Backes, the Best Power Forwards in the NHL

Today, the power forward needs to be three things – big, tough and relatively young. Yes, Jaroma Iginla, Joe Thornton and Scott Hartnell are classic power forwards, but they aren’t the same types of players they were 10 years ago. Milan Lucic, David Backes and Corey Perry, on the other hand, are exactly what Thornton and Iginla were a decade ago.

And you will find so many of those, you can just google "Corey Perry power forward".

At the end of the day what I wanted to say was, since it's Ak Bars' thread, that Stapleton is a goalscorer and an abundance of those are crappy possession players but that doesn't matter because they aren't paid to do that and it's not a problem for Ak Bars of any kind. Possession is made of size, speed and two-way play (possessing one those qualities might be enough like you mentioned with Zuke) while goalscorer is defined by his ability to score, meaning mostly shot and getting open, finding open ice in the offensive zone.

The list of top 10 natural goalscorers in the league just to put a better picture in your head, Vanek, Nash and Gaborik above Perry.

Really can't understand how that turned into this but here we have it.

 

[Hilly1]

I think you are talking about apples and I'm about oranges.

I can just give you a few examples of people who also need to get their hockey knowledges fixed:

wikipedia description:

In ice hockey, power forward (PF) is a loosely applied characterization of a forward who is big and strong, equally capable of playing physically or scoring goals and would most likely have high totals in both points and penalties.[1] It is usually used in reference to a forward who is physically large, with the toughness to dig the puck out of the corners, possesses offensive instincts, has mobility, puck-handling skills,[2][3] may be difficult to knock off the puck[4] and willingly engage in fights when he feels it's required.[5] Possessing both physical size and offensive ability, power forwards are also often referred to as the 'complete' hockey player.

[6][7]Players who have been described as power forwards are Brendan Shanahan,[10][11] Clark Gillies,[12] Jarome Iginla,[5] Kevin Stevens,[13] Mark Messier,[14] Joe Thornton,[15] Ryan Getzlaf,[16] Wendel Clark,[17][18] Milan Lucic[19] and Ryan Smyth,[20]

Getzlaf and Thornton with Lucic and Smyth, who would have thought

I even found this in wikipedia talk:

If you honestly believe that Ovechkin doesn't fall into the category of "power forward," you quite frankly know absolutely nothing about hockey. Ovechkin scored 65 goals last season, he's 6'2", 217 lbs, and ranked #9 in the entire NHL with 220 checks. If he isn't a power forward, then there is no such thing as a power forward. Please, be serious here.

Which is an obvious misconception because no, Ovechkin, Stamkos or
Steen obviously don't fit the description.

Corey Perry, however fits the bill perfectly as mentioned in, for example, this article by Winnipeg media:

From Lucic to Backes, the Best Power Forwards in the NHL

Today, the power forward needs to be three things – big, tough and relatively young. Yes, Jaroma Iginla, Joe Thornton and Scott Hartnell are classic power forwards, but they aren’t the same types of players they were 10 years ago. Milan Lucic, David Backes and Corey Perry, on the other hand, are exactly what Thornton and Iginla were a decade ago.

And you will find so many of those, you can just google "Corey Perry power forward".

At the end of the day what I wanted to say was, since it's Ak Bars' thread, that Stapleton is a goalscorer and an abundance of those are crappy possession players but that doesn't matter because they aren't paid to do that and it's not a problem for Ak Bars of any kind. Possession is made of size, speed and two-way play (possessing one those qualities might be enough like you mentioned with Zuke) while goalscorer is defined by his ability to score, meaning mostly shot and getting open, finding open ice in the offensive zone.

The list of top 10 natural goalscorers in the league just to put a better picture in your head, Vanek, Nash and Gaborik above Perry.

Really can't understand how that turned into this but here we have it.

Nash is the definition of a power forward bud soooo and can you get players who are actually currently TOP 10 goal scorers .. I don't get why you think Stapleton somehow defies the stats with his "amazing two way ability" even though the guy is a bad possession player who really isn't that amazing. I'm not going to sit here and argue about sonething stupid that you completely changed into defining powerforwards. In the end the guy produces but it's not Belovs fault that Stapleton brings his linemates down. Please don't respond talking about something stupid like Stapletons intangibles so please spare me.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Nash is the definition of a power forward bud soooo and can you get players who are actually currently TOP 10 goal scorers .

Again, that's the thing, we were not talking (correction, I'm not talking) about the actual top 10 scorers, we were talking about definitions or, in other words, types of players. But ok, enough of it.

I don't get why you think Stapleton somehow defies the stats with his "amazing two way ability" even though the guy is a bad possession player who really isn't that amazing. I'm not going to sit here and argue about sonething stupid that you completely changed into defining powerforwards. In the end the guy produces but it's not Belovs fault that Stapleton brings his linemates down. Please don't respond talking about something stupid like Stapletons intangibles so please spare me.

Where on Earth did I say Stapleton defies stats and furthermore, has an amazing two-way ability? It's ridiculous, he doesn't and he really doesn't. All I've said that many teams pay the price for having guy who can put the biscuit in the jar and not much else and there shouldn't be the problem because at the end of the day it's a five man unit on ice. Thus the Gaborik example because he was "bringing his linemates down" too but I don't really see anyone complain about it. Kings is still the best puck-possession team in the world because it's not about one player, it's about group of players and making them successful which is Belov's job and it's not being done very well, at least in my eyes.

You make it sound like hey, Belov is of the hook, because Stapleton is THE problem which is just crazy.

 

[Hilly1]

Again, that's the thing, we were not talking (correction, I'm not talking) about the actual top 10 scorers, we were talking about definitions or, in other words, types of players. But ok, enough of it.



Where on Earth did I say Stapleton defies stats and furthermore, has an amazing two-way ability? It's ridiculous, he doesn't and he really doesn't. All I've said that many teams pay the price for having guy who can put the biscuit in the jar and not much else and there shouldn't be the problem because at the end of the day it's a five man unit on ice. Thus the Gaborik example because he was "bringing his linemates down" too but I don't really see anyone complain about it. Kings is still the best puck-possession team in the world because it's not about one player, it's about group of players and making them successful which is Belov's job and it's not being done very well, at least in my eyes.

You make it sound like hey, Belov is of the hook, because Stapleton is THE problem which is just crazy.

Advance stats show that when Stapleton is on the ice in 5on5 the other team has more shots for then against and i'm not saying Stapleton brings Belov down i'm saying that when you said players like Stapleton should have played better with Belov, it's not Belovs fault that Stapleton has always had bad possession stats and the 2 way thing was an example. Your basing a player like Gaborik on a small smaple size and shouldn't be in this discussion because a player like Kopitar makes any winger better but a lot of good snipers can be very good without a good center example Kessel

 

[SoundAndFury]

Advance stats show that when Stapleton is on the ice in 5on5 the other team has more shots for then against and i'm not saying Stapleton brings Belov down i'm saying that when you said players like Stapleton should have played better with Belov, it's not Belovs fault that Stapleton has always had bad possession stats and the 2 way thing was an example. Your basing a player like Gaborik on a small smaple size and shouldn't be in this discussion because a player like Kopitar makes any winger better but a lot of good snipers can be very good without a good center example Kessel

But you don't have Kessel, you have Stapleton If you could get Kessel to replace him I'd say sure, fire that useless hobbit all the way to Helsinki where he has played before and they will be more than happy to take him of your hands. The thing is - you can't.

And explain me how is that Stapleton and his poor "advanced stats" managed to be a leading scorer with KHL juggernaut Dinamo and he can't even match them while playing with Burmistrov? And where exactly are you getting these "advanced stats" from since you are evidently willing to bet your house on them because I would be extremely interested to see them too.

P.S. Also, how is Gaborik a small sample-size? His career is like 8 seasons already.