AHL West Part II - ADK, MAN, NOR, OKC, & WOR

[Elliot Williams]

As a fan who's been to Manchester numerous times and has a lot of friends in the area, I was pissed to see them leave, but I'm truly curious about this. What do you think the gov't (powers that be, as you've ID'ed them) could've done to stop this, and what team do you think could've come into Manchester to replace the Kings?

Great questions. I don't have the answers either. I know there is a lease with the Kings, but nothing in civic government is frozen in ice, so to speak. I have absolutely no doubt that the city could have negotiated out of it if they cared or understood the difference between ECHL and AHL (or between hockey and bowling, for that matter). As you say, Manchester is a very, well, to put it mildly, "frugal" place. Doubt they considered even for one second having the place go dark for a year.

In any event: Arizona Coyotes (Portland's franchise) just signed to move to Springfield!!! Which ranks in the bottom three for attendance in the AHL East (Manchester is always in the middle, around 15th.) And Portland gets the AHL franchise for the Florida Panthers.

Manchester sells out its hockey fans to keep activity going at the Verizon Wireless Center. They don't understand -- or care -- that several NCAA Division I hockey teams in driving distance play more interesting, passionate, and exciting games than the ECHL "monarchs" will.

I guess all this is to say a truism: money talks, the rest walk.

 

[offkilter]

Great questions. I don't have the answers either. I know there is a lease with the Kings, but nothing in civic government is frozen in ice, so to speak. I have absolutely no doubt that the city could have negotiated out of it if they cared or understood the difference between ECHL and AHL (or between hockey and bowling, for that matter). As you say, Manchester is a very, well, to put it mildly, "frugal" place. Doubt they considered even for one second having the place go dark for a year.

In any event: Arizona Coyotes (Portland's franchise) just signed to move to Springfield!!! Which ranks in the bottom three for attendance in the AHL East (Manchester is always in the middle, around 15th.) And Portland gets the AHL franchise for the Florida Panthers.

Manchester sells out its hockey fans to keep activity going at the Verizon Wireless Center. They don't understand -- or care -- that several NCAA Division I hockey teams in driving distance play more interesting, passionate, and exciting games than the ECHL "monarchs" will.

I guess all this is to say a truism: money talks, the rest walk.

You don't really understand how the AHL works do you? Springfield, Portland, and San Antonio are independantly owned teams. Florida, Arizona, and Colorado do not own an AHL franchise. That is why they went to Portland, Springfield, and San Antonio. To be blunt there is no way in hell Manchester was going to get an AHL team if the ECHL deal wasn't there and you wouldn't have any hockey period. You really want to go dark like Worcester?

 

[Nightsquad]

You don't really understand how the AHL works do you? Springfield, Portland, and San Antonio are independantly owned teams. Florida, Arizona, and Colorado do not own an AHL franchise. That is why they went to Portland, Springfield, and San Antonio. To be blunt there is no way in hell Manchester was going to get an AHL team if the ECHL deal wasn't there and you wouldn't have any hockey period. You really want to go dark like Worcester?

The Monarchs fans have become too used to the goodlife. Unlike other AHL like Rochester and Albany which have been around for quite sometime (Albany has had the AHL Devils, Rats, and nearby Capital District Islanders for over two decades) Manchester has had very good teams over the years. I remember a large group of Monarchs fans I got to spend time with few years back at a game down in Providence. They were actuall all buttered and bent thet the Monarchs missed the playoffs the previous year. Really, your team misses the playoffs once in a few years and your that upset in a whole new season, absurd. Not sure what qualifies Manchester to be among the elite or special. Do they deserve to host an AHL club?? Absolutely they do. Has the market truly been tested with adversity as say a market like Albany, Springfield, Portland, or Adirondack, hell no! If Manchester had to sit through five or ten seasons of hockey whereby their team doesnt even qualify for the playoffs would they get the support they do? Honestly, can someone answer that? If they say otherwise and that most people really go to enjoy a night out then what does that really say about the Manchester area? Does it assert it is not really a strong hockey market or there is nothing else going on inthe Manchester-Concord area?

The worst thing Manchester "fans" can do is vent their rage and protest the ECHL all they want. Is it a step down, sure it is, I get that but what they will still get is some players who do find their way to the NHL. I dont think the Kings Organization is doing justice by playing as if nothing has changed but in reality at the end of the day the Monarchs are still there and the people in the front office whom are members of your community are to. The stupidest thing the fan base can do is kill the support and ultimately kill the market, that could happen. After a while fans will sit home, do other things, attend college hockey, etc. So much apathy will develop only a select few will recall the good years of Monarchs hockey and they will fade into New England hockey history......Support what you have in front of you, make your case that the fan base is hardcore and loyal, and deserving of the next level. Everyone forget that Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, and Charlotte are former ECHL cities???? Now home to the NHL and AHL respectively.....Think about that Manchester?

 

[Hoodaha]

The Monarchs fans have become too used to the goodlife. Unlike other AHL like Rochester and Albany which have been around for quite sometime (Albany has had the AHL Devils, Rats, and nearby Capital District Islanders for over two decades) Manchester has had very good teams over the years. I remember a large group of Monarchs fans I got to spend time with few years back at a game down in Providence. They were actuall all buttered and bent thet the Monarchs missed the playoffs the previous year. Really, your team misses the playoffs once in a few years and your that upset in a whole new season, absurd. Not sure what qualifies Manchester to be among the elite or special. Do they deserve to host an AHL club?? Absolutely they do. Has the market truly been tested with adversity as say a market like Albany, Springfield, Portland, or Adirondack, hell no! If Manchester had to sit through five or ten seasons of hockey whereby their team doesnt even qualify for the playoffs would they get the support they do? Honestly, can someone answer that? If they say otherwise and that most people really go to enjoy a night out then what does that really say about the Manchester area? Does it assert it is not really a strong hockey market or there is nothing else going on inthe Manchester-Concord area?

The worst thing Manchester "fans" can do is vent their rage and protest the ECHL all they want. Is it a step down, sure it is, I get that but what they will still get is some players who do find their way to the NHL. I dont think the Kings Organization is doing justice by playing as if nothing has changed but in reality at the end of the day the Monarchs are still there and the people in the front office whom are members of your community are to. The stupidest thing the fan base can do is kill the support and ultimately kill the market, that could happen. After a while fans will sit home, do other things, attend college hockey, etc. So much apathy will develop only a select few will recall the good years of Monarchs hockey and they will fade into New England hockey history......Support what you have in front of you, make your case that the fan base is hardcore and loyal, and deserving of the next level. Everyone forget that Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, and Charlotte are former ECHL cities???? Now home to the NHL and AHL respectively.....Think about that Manchester?

Yep, the only way that Manchester guarantees never to see an AHL team again is to protest and not support the ECHL team. Watch the ECHL for a few years, cross your fingers, and wait. Odds are Manchester will have AHL again if the attendance doesn't take a nosedive.

 

[Elliot Williams]

Yep, the only way that Manchester guarantees never to see an AHL team again is to protest and not support the ECHL team. Watch the ECHL for a few years, cross your fingers, and wait. Odds are Manchester will have AHL again if the attendance doesn't take a nosedive.

Thank you everyone for all the advice.

I was a STH for the Monarchs. I'm not in the mood to spend my time and money on ECHL hockey. And I am not terribly fond, either, of being preached to, excuse me for saying so.

The Verizon Wireless Center is a great venue, the fan base is in the top half of the AHL attendance, and other AHL teams would (and HAVE in the past) voiced interest in moving here. The Kings may have (I am only repeating what I heard at the last home game) conned the city starting more than a year ago by hedging their bets about the West Coast AHL league. So they may have forced the city governors into a difficult place when they could have (easily) gotten another AHL team and not had to settle for less.

But as one of you implied, we have many choices nearby, including Providence or Springfield once or twice a season -- they aren't that difficult a drive away. And, of course this conversation is all apart from the Bruins (where I had been a season ticket holder for many years). And to top all that off, Class I NCAA hockey is all around us, which is a cut about ECHL in many respects.

So, the Monarchs did exactly what they wanted, and I along with other ex-Monarch fans will do what we want. That's the way things work. No regrets at all. Great ride. But also, no cheers or dollars forthcoming.

 

[HansH]

AFAIU, the hockey history will indeed end on the Island, once the Islanders move to Brooklyn

You do know that Brooklyn is still on the same island, right?

 

[RowdyFan42]

I was a STH for the Monarchs. I'm not in the mood to spend my time and money on ECHL hockey. And I am not terribly fond, either, of being preached to, excuse me for saying so.

Apologies, but given that Worcester isn't even getting an ECHL consolation prize and many fans here have gone through the "losing a team" situation before or seen it happen to friends, perhaps a little preaching is in order. Bottom line, you'll still have professional hockey. If you choose not to support it, that's your deal, but you forfeit the right to complain if they leave and no one else is tripping over themselves to replace them.

The Verizon Wireless Center is a great venue, the fan base is in the top half of the AHL attendance, and other AHL teams would (and HAVE in the past) voiced interest in moving here.

The key word here is PAST. The AHL is undergoing its biggest change since the IHL absorption, and by all accounts, it's not over yet. Franchises are at a premium, and an independent owner could probably get more money by selling out to a western NHL team than they could by moving to Manchester. Hey, maybe you'll get lucky and Springfield's owners will decide they can make a better go of it in New Hampshire. Maybe you'll get unlucky and the Devils will try to take another shot at operating in Bruins territory. But please, don't act like Manchester is any more entitled to the AHL than any other city.

 

[JungleJON]

Everyone forget that Nashville, Raleigh-Durham, and Charlotte are former ECHL cities???? Now home to the NHL and AHL respectively.....Think about that Manchester?

You can throw in Columbus (Former Columbus Chill).

 

[Tommy Hawk]

You do know that Brooklyn is still on the same island, right?

No its not and no AHL teams are for sale and the pacific division will not come to being until the 16-17 season at the earliest and no team will move because they have a lease and no teams can change affiliation because they have an affiliation agreement and no that never gets old.

 

[Rumblick]

You do know that Brooklyn is still on the same island, right?

This may be true geographically, but no Long Islander wants to say they're part of Brooklyn, and no Brooklynite would ever admit to being a Long Islander.

 

[PCSPounder]

Brooklyn is more culturally connected to my Portland than to Long Island.

(Hmmmmmm...)

 

[mmazz22]

Would one assume in the Kings / Manchester agreement that there is a clause in there that if an AHL franchise wants to relocate in Manchester Kings Echl team is out??

 

[HansH]

Would one assume in the Kings / Manchester agreement that there is a clause in there that if an AHL franchise wants to relocate in Manchester Kings Echl team is out??

I wouldn't ASSUME that. Maybe, but you'd have to get a hold of the lease agreement to find out. If I were the Kings, I wouldn't want to be forced to find a new home for my ECHL team without input as to whether it was being forced out of Manchester, and would likely push for a reduction in payment in exchange for putting that clause in. But that's just how I would negotiate it.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Would one assume in the Kings / Manchester agreement that there is a clause in there that if an AHL franchise wants to relocate in Manchester Kings Echl team is out??

I am not sure. Not sure if that 6 year lease has an out clause. I think Manchester fans have the right to be annoyed. Sure they have pro hockey there but it just isn't the same. Yet folks in charge of ticket sales seem to think we are all dumb and there is no difference between the E and the AHL.
Of course I have heard many complaints over the years from the people in the front office. Acting like the way they do is nothing new. If they don't drop their prices there is no way anyone should expect the loyal fans to stick around. I have been going to the games since day 1 and I have seen the change in attitude in the front office. It was great for the first half dozen years. Since then they have had issues in that front office. Was a STH for the first 6 seasons and dropped out because of money and work issues was making it difficult to go to the games as much as I would of liked. I think I went to 5 games this past year. Will go to a playoff game or 2 if they manage to win the Portland series.

 

[Peter6625]

It's easy to sit back and bash Monarchs fans, like we are acting above every other AHL city. You cannot compare Manchester to Raleigh, Charlotte, Columbus, and Nashville. Those places weren't even on the hockey map and didn't have any hockey competition in the market. All Monarchs fans are mentioning is that New England is really competitive with hockey fans. I might go to one or two ECHL, but I would rather support my school UML. In Manchester you can't find a $10 seat like you did in Worcester, or Springfield. Our prices are more expensive than Portland. I live closer to Manchester and I work closer to Worcester. Worcester no doubt could support ECHL, there are no Hockey East teams to compete with, the closet one is Lowell. I'm sure the die hards are going to cheer for Springfield's AHL team. As for Manchester, they have UML, UNH, Merrimack and Dartmouth within driving distance. ECHL would work in Worcester, especially a Bruin's affiliated team. I was a Monarchs season ticket holder for numerous years in Manchester and found the past few years wasn't worth it. I don't trust the Kings, the reason why they aren't banging that place out anymore is they totally stuck it to season ticket holders. They use to give season ticket holders a cup that you could refill for $1, midway through the season they took it away from us. The ticket packages are a joke, there is little to no savings tied into it. I would rather see the Verizon Wireless dark than with an ECHL team, it's being honest. How much rent is an ECHL team going to pay the city? I know when the Devils left Lowell, the arena turned a profit. Hockey eats up key weekend dates that could be filled with shows.

 

[210]

How much rent is an ECHL team going to pay the city?

For 15-16, the exact same amount the AHL Monarchs were. There is one year remaining on the lease. It did not have an out clause so AEG would have had to pay the full amount to get out of the lease.

 

[wildthing202]

Ding, Dong, Worcester's dead.

 

[Chockey Hockey]

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_yl...ss&ei=UTF-8&p=do you know the way to san jose

 

[wildthing202]

After round 1
Norfolk, Worcester, Adirondack - R.I.P
OKC and Manchester - Still kicking.

 

[Bastulon]

after round 1
norfolk, worcester, adirondack - r.i.p
okc and manchester - still kicking.

OKC! OKC! Didn't think they'd sweep SA but here we are.

 

[tigervixxxen]

So when do we expect alignment news?

 

[HansH]

The schedule usually seems to come out around August 1, give or take, if my memory doesn't fail me.

PERHAPS they'll announce an alignment before then, but I wouldn't hold my breath, personally.

 

[axecrew]

So when do we expect alignment news?

I would expect the alignment news to come out in June, after the board meetings here in Chicago.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

The schedule usually seems to come out around August 1, give or take, if my memory doesn't fail me.

PERHAPS they'll announce an alignment before then, but I wouldn't hold my breath, personally.

Pretty sure they always announce alignment before the schedule.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I would expect the alignment news to come out in June, after the board meetings here in Chicago.

Alignment doesn't matter. The California teams will only play themselves, the Midwestern teams will only play the midwestern teams and any team east of Cleveland will only play teams east of Cleveland.