AHL West Part II - ADK, MAN, NOR, OKC, & WOR

go comets

Registered User
Jul 10, 2013
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A lot of things do not make sense in this whole mess. Some cities will hold out trying to keep an AHL team, others will grab a echl team. Some current cities will have a AHL team that maybe shouldn't.... Its going to be a mixed up mess for a few years......
 

Hoodaha

Registered User
Aug 8, 2014
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A lot of things do not make sense in this whole mess. Some cities will hold out trying to keep an AHL team, others will grab a echl team. Some current cities will have a AHL team that maybe shouldn't.... Its going to be a mixed up mess for a few years......

Things will settle over time. As for cities that shouldnt have AHL teams, the ECHL teams moving to the AHL draw better than the current AHL teams that they are taking. San Jose is a short term gamble and may be a floo, but San Diego drew well in previous incarnations.
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk
Manchester
Adirondack
Utica
Worcester

These are 4 possible landing places.


Dude - you're the one who suggested Utica, not me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk
Thunder Bay is not necessarily an easier call up than St. John's.

Do you know where Thunder Bay is located? Thunder Bay is a 1-hour flight to Winnipeg, and a 1-hour flight to Toronto. The only time it's not an easier call-up is if the Jets are on the road in the Northeastern US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk
There are 41 games the Jets play on the road. It would be easier to get to almost all those locations from the northeast than from St. Johns.

The Jets are in the West, not the East. So, only 16 of those road games are in the East. Like I said before, the overlap between the AHL and NHL schedules is so small that the advantage would be in the range of 10 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy Hawk
There are 4 flights from Syracuse where a player would be able to get to Chicago in time for a 7 PM game. Two are barely in time but still in time.

And how many times do they play in Chicago? Twice?

My point, from the first post, is not that the Jets wouldn't move from St. John's, but rather that there's no obvious landing spot - unlike every other move we've seen. There's no destination that is clearly better for them than St. John's, because none of the potential destinations are very close to Winnipeg. That's all.

Yes I did suggest Utica so not sure your point. Axe said Utica would have to deal with the local owners. I was correcting Axe (was of the few times needed) that Utica is owned by the Canucks. Sticking with my statement. Never wavered on it.

Yes I do know where thunder bay is. On northwest side of lake superior. It is not the flight time that matters for squat, its the NUMBER of flights. If there is 1 flight a day it is not convenient for call ups especially considering it is a 7 hour drive through difficult country. It a closer drive to Minneapolis than Winnipeg.

And there are much better spots for the Jets AHL team than St. John's and they are all MUCH closer to Winnipeg and winnipeg's opponents.

And Chicago, Nashville, Denver, St. Louis, Dallas, and Minnesota are in Winnipeg's division so they play about 15 road games against them. They play about 16 against the eastern conference. So 31 or so of their games it is easier to get from anywhere in the northeast to the opponent. Basically, it is easier to get to ANY nhl city from anywhere in the northeast than it is from St. John's. And that doesn't even count the ridiculous travel fr the other AHL cities to play them.

So pretty much anywhere is a better place for call ups than St. Johns. They call it the rock for a reason.
 

MiamiHockey

Registered User
Sep 12, 2012
2,087
187
Yes I do know where thunder bay is. On northwest side of lake superior. It is not the flight time that matters for squat, its the NUMBER of flights. If there is 1 flight a day it is not convenient for call ups especially considering it is a 7 hour drive through difficult country. It a closer drive to Minneapolis than Winnipeg.

So pretty much anywhere is a better place for call ups than St. Johns. They call it the rock for a reason.

Well then I have happy news for you because there are at least 5 direct flights a day from TBay to Winnipeg.

Many times on this board it has been discussed - and generally agreed - that for a player to be called up on the day of a game they need to be within either driving distance or a short direct flight. None of the cities you mention offer that to Winnipeg. That's been my point all along. Yes, they are physically closer, but no they do not give Winnipeg the option of calling up a player on the day of a game UNLESS the Jets are in the Northeastern US (i.e., east of Chicago). Given that a team in St. John's is on the road to the Northeastern US for half their season, the advantage is minimal (10 games or less).

And it's called The Rock because of the geology, not the location. But please don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 

Tommy Hawk

Registered User
May 27, 2006
4,223
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Well then I have happy news for you because there are at least 5 direct flights a day from TBay to Winnipeg.

Many times on this board it has been discussed - and generally agreed - that for a player to be called up on the day of a game they need to be within either driving distance or a short direct flight. None of the cities you mention offer that to Winnipeg. That's been my point all along. Yes, they are physically closer, but no they do not give Winnipeg the option of calling up a player on the day of a game UNLESS the Jets are in the Northeastern US (i.e., east of Chicago). Given that a team in St. John's is on the road to the Northeastern US for half their season, the advantage is minimal (10 games or less).

And it's called The Rock because of the geology, not the location. But please don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I am glad there are 5 flights a day from Thunder Bay to Winnipeg. How many to Chciago, St. Louis, New York, etc where Winnipeg plays half their games? But we are not talking Thunder Bay here.

You asked where is a better landing spot than St. John's and you have provided no information to show that St. John's is better for the NHL team or the AHL team than the 4 places I listed. And getting from there to anywhere is much more difficult than from the locations in the northeast that have been mentioned for both call ups and for AHL games.

I know why it is called the Rock as well. THe firm I work for has an office there. The place is an island andis the bout the farthest east you can get on the continent. A 30 hour drive to Montreal.

Not sure how you think being so far away from everything makes it a better place for a hockey team than Worcester, Manchester, Glens Falls, etc.
 

MiamiHockey

Registered User
Sep 12, 2012
2,087
187
You asked where is a better landing spot than St. John's and you have provided no information to show that St. John's is better for the NHL team or the AHL team than the 4 places I listed. And getting from there to anywhere is much more difficult than from the locations in the northeast that have been mentioned for both call ups and for AHL games.

Not sure how you think being so far away from everything makes it a better place for a hockey team than Worcester, Manchester, Glens Falls, etc.

I didn't say it was a better place than the places you mentioned. I said there are no obviously better places than St. John's for the Jets.

But, since you ask, here's two easy ones:

1) Winnipeg is a small, cold, remote city requiring extensive travel. St. John's is a small, cold, remote city requiring extensive travel. Given than young NHLers often struggle to adapt to the challenges of the NHL schedule - particularly the Western Conference teams - it's not a bad thing to have them preparing for that in the minors.

2) Being in a spotlight. In the winter there is nothing else going on in Winnipeg than the Jets. Ditto for St. John's and their hockey franchise. It's a city of just over 100,000 people that averages nearly 6000 per game attendance. Just as Jets players cannot be anonymous in Winnipeg, IceCaps players can't be anonymous in St. John's. That's good for development.
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
4,223
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I didn't say it was a better place than the places you mentioned. I said there are no obviously better places than St. John's for the Jets.

But, since you ask, here's two easy ones:

1) Winnipeg is a small, cold, remote city requiring extensive travel. St. John's is a small, cold, remote city requiring extensive travel. Given than young NHLers often struggle to adapt to the challenges of the NHL schedule - particularly the Western Conference teams - it's not a bad thing to have them preparing for that in the minors.

2) Being in a spotlight. In the winter there is nothing else going on in Winnipeg than the Jets. Ditto for St. John's and their hockey franchise. It's a city of just over 100,000 people that averages nearly 6000 per game attendance. Just as Jets players cannot be anonymous in Winnipeg, IceCaps players can't be anonymous in St. John's. That's good for development.

That's your opinion. ANY PLACE is obviously better than St. John's. Easier travel schedules for both call ups and for AHL travel. Lower travel costs for both. Easier access to major metropolitan areas. Less chance of being trapped like rats on a sinking ship considering the limited number of ways to access the rock.

Our company treats travel to and from the rock from the US like going to Europe. 2 weeks on site, one week off.

I am glad you think so highly of Winnipeg where nothing else is going on in the winter. Nothing.

The Winnipeg and the St. John's players are as anonymous as they want to be. I have friends that played for the Original Jets, the Moose, the Current Jets, the St. John's Leafs, the Ice Caps, Fredricton, Halifax, Saint John, PEI, as well as a number of people who grew up there that work for the company I work for and EVERYONE I talked to says the rigor to get to and from the Rock is absolutely brutal.
 

Canadienjet

Registered User
Dec 7, 2006
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As someone who has lived in St.John's all of his life,it can be very difficult to get in and out of here.

Like I mentioned in the older thread the Jets will play out this year and next and go to wherever.

After that..who knows?
 

CHRDANHUTCH

Registered User
Mar 4, 2002
35,232
4,218
Auburn, Maine
Regarding the rumors surrounding Worcester:

Isn't it true, the primary reason the Sharks were bounced from Cleveland in 2006, is the proximity to both Portland and Manchester having Pacific Division affiliations?

it lasted even when Buffalo arrived after the inglorious 3 year breakup of the Sabres and Rochester....

Ray Edwards was asked during his weekly press conference, and said there's no knowledge that the Sharks are going anywhere, and any reports to the contrary are just that...
 

HansH

Unwelcome Spectre
Feb 2, 2005
5,294
482
San Diego
www.mib.org
A lot of things do not make sense in this whole mess. Some cities will hold out trying to keep an AHL team, others will grab a echl team. Some current cities will have a AHL team that maybe shouldn't.... Its going to be a mixed up mess for a few years......

Minor league hockey has ALWAYS been a mixed up mess. That won't change after a few years -- some other thing will happen that will "not make sense" to people who aren't in the middle of trying to make their business venture succeed, and we'll be off on this discussion again. The reason the Death Pool Report was as well-read as it was was because of the constant change and upheaval in minor pro hockey.

"A mixed-up mess" is just the normal state. Embrace it.
 

Tommy Hawk

Registered User
May 27, 2006
4,223
104
Minor league hockey has ALWAYS been a mixed up mess. That won't change after a few years -- some other thing will happen that will "not make sense" to people who aren't in the middle of trying to make their business venture succeed, and we'll be off on this discussion again. The reason the Death Pool Report was as well-read as it was was because of the constant change and upheaval in minor pro hockey.

"A mixed-up mess" is just the normal state. Embrace it.

So MUM's the word? (mixed up mess)?
 

zetajerk

Registered User
Jan 1, 2015
738
589
So, is it likely that many of the ECHL teams will trade places with the AHL once all this nonsense is settled?

Having the ECHL ADK Flames is more appealing than the AHL Devils.
 

PCSPounder

Stadium Groupie
Apr 12, 2012
2,852
564
The Outskirts of Nutria Nanny
A lot of things do not make sense in this whole mess. Some cities will hold out trying to keep an AHL team, others will grab a echl team. Some current cities will have a AHL team that maybe shouldn't.... Its going to be a mixed up mess for a few years......

I ask you to change your perception of who should and shouldn't have an AHL team, because it will change.

If you want to blame the NHL for this, no problem.
 

Hoodaha

Registered User
Aug 8, 2014
923
0
I ask you to change your perception of who should and shouldn't have an AHL team, because it will change.

If you want to blame the NHL for this, no problem.

Yep. The AHL is changing. Nobody's got a divine right to an AHL team.
 

MiamiHockey

Registered User
Sep 12, 2012
2,087
187
That's your opinion. ANY PLACE is obviously better than St. John's. Easier travel schedules for both call ups and for AHL travel. Lower travel costs for both. Easier access to major metropolitan areas. Less chance of being trapped like rats on a sinking ship considering the limited number of ways to access the rock.

Our company treats travel to and from the rock from the US like going to Europe. 2 weeks on site, one week off.

I am glad you think so highly of Winnipeg where nothing else is going on in the winter. Nothing.

The Winnipeg and the St. John's players are as anonymous as they want to be. I have friends that played for the Original Jets, the Moose, the Current Jets, the St. John's Leafs, the Ice Caps, Fredricton, Halifax, Saint John, PEI, as well as a number of people who grew up there that work for the company I work for and EVERYONE I talked to says the rigor to get to and from the Rock is absolutely brutal.

Yes, that's my opinion, just as it's your opinion that other places are better. I never claimed it to be anything more.

Other places have their merits, but there are few AHL markets that offer the level of support that St. John's does. The Baby Leafs were there for 15 seasons, which is remarkable given its remoteness.

My family is from Newfoundland, and I have Aunts / Uncles / Cousins in St. John's, and yes I have personally traveled there many times, just as I have been in Winnipeg in the winter, and I have traveled to Thunder Bay. I am not generating my opinion out of ignorance, but rather out of personal experience.

Perhaps you could agree to disagree, rather than responding to each of my comments as if you're the only person with knowledge of these matters.
 

Disengage

Registered User
Nov 11, 2007
931
10
Regarding the rumors surrounding Worcester:

Isn't it true, the primary reason the Sharks were bounced from Cleveland in 2006, is the proximity to both Portland and Manchester having Pacific Division affiliations?

it lasted even when Buffalo arrived after the inglorious 3 year breakup of the Sabres and Rochester....

Ray Edwards was asked during his weekly press conference, and said there's no knowledge that the Sharks are going anywhere, and any reports to the contrary are just that...

Kind of like how there was absolutely, positively no AHL franchises for sale?
 

wildcat48

Registered User
Jul 16, 2005
4,273
300
Portland, Maine
Regarding the rumors surrounding Worcester:

Isn't it true, the primary reason the Sharks were bounced from Cleveland in 2006, is the proximity to both Portland and Manchester having Pacific Division affiliations?

it lasted even when Buffalo arrived after the inglorious 3 year breakup of the Sabres and Rochester....

Ray Edwards was asked during his weekly press conference, and said there's no knowledge that the Sharks are going anywhere, and any reports to the contrary are just that...

Huh?:shakehead
 

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