AHL to cut 10 games from schedule?

[aparch]

What 50 game schedule?

D1 college basketball players play 30-35 games, they are not prepared to play 82 games.

The range of games played varies from 31 to 43, depending on exemptions, tournament, and championship games played; with a majority of the schools playing 36 to 40 games a year.

While it's not as "grueling" as an 76 or 82 game schedule, they play almost exclusively on back-to-back weekends, which is more suited to the ECHL/AHL scheduling format.

The Major Junior kids who play 80 games spread throughout the season are usually complaining about the scheduling in the ECHL/AHL.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

What 50 game schedule?

D1 college basketball players play 30-35 games, they are not prepared to play 82 games.

72 games is not a college schedule, it is 5 less home games, probably the equivalent of 7-8 more practices. I understand the point about not caring about the number of games but getting season over with....Based on that 26 week template it could even end sooner.

Keep in mind 14 out of the 30 BOG are NHL team executives. The NHL is making all the decisions here.

The fact is the NHL should be playing 72 games and the east should never meet the west until the Stanley Cup Finals. Understand it will never happen but the product would be so much better.

Why are you talking Basketball? What I am saying is that playing 66 to 72 games in the AHL does not prepare a player for playing 82 games in the NHL.

And Wisconsin college hockey plays 35 to 43 games, European leagues play about 50-55.

The range of games played varies from 31 to 43, depending on exemptions, tournament, and championship games played; with a majority of the schools playing 36 to 40 games a year.

While it's not as "grueling" as an 76 or 82 game schedule, they play almost exclusively on back-to-back weekends, which is more suited to the ECHL/AHL scheduling format.

The Major Junior kids who play 80 games spread throughout the season are usually complaining about the scheduling in the ECHL/AHL.

Major Junior does not play 80 games, they play 68.

So the AHL will play less (if they go to 66) game than Major Junior teams and the ECHL.

 

[MM658]

Biggest problem is the fact that the AHL has to wait for the NHL season to start so they make their final cuts..... Mid Oct start is about all they can do....

AHL teams practice and play pre-season games before the final cuts, no reason they can't start the season before them. We're probably talking about 3 games, tops, anyway.

Or alternatively, go with a 25 week template instead of 26. Start whenever rosters are set, and end by 3/31.

Either approach is an improvement. A regular season that eats up half (or more) of April, and a post-season that'ss still going on when people are making their 4th of July BBQ plans is beyond silly. As are most things AHL-related, admittedly...

 

[Tommy Hawk]

AHL teams practice and play pre-season games before the final cuts, no reason they can't start the season before them. We're probably talking about 3 games, tops, anyway.

Or alternatively, go with a 25 week template instead of 26. Start whenever rosters are set, and end by 3/31.

Either approach is an improvement. A regular season that eats up half (or more) of April, and a post-season that'ss still going on when people are making their 4th of July BBQ plans is beyond silly. As are most things AHL-related, admittedly...

The AHL want that man games that close together. They want practice.

 

[MM658]

The AHL want that man games that close together. They want practice.

(I will assume you meant "the AHL doesn't want that many games that close together.")

Nowhere in there did I mention a number of games, just a number of weeks. That was intentional.

My point was: create a calendar framework (or 'template,' to use the word that the AHL aparently likes to use) and AFTER THAT, determine a number of games based on what fits in that template, taking all things into account (travel, # of practices, player preparation for NHL schedule, revenue lost to teams, fan demand, etc) . If 90 games are what makes sense, play 90. If 30 games make sense, play 30. (Exaggerated examples to illustrate the point.)

They should:
* Start as early as is feasible in October. Six months (or slightly less) of regular season games is plenty -- it gets you done by end of March.
* Two months in which to fit the playoffs is more than enough. End by Memorial Day.
* Work backward from there to figure out the optimal # of regular season games and appropriate # of games in each playoff round.

Of course, they won't do this, because AHL.

 

[axecrew]

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the one thing that almost all AHL teams think about...revenue.
Most if not all teams are concerned with putting butts in the seats...albany excluded of course, by providing a template like you have, you are also cutting the possible revenue streams of some if not most teams. There are only so many weekends per season as it is now, and those dates are premium dates. if you use that template on this season alone, you've cut 6 possible revenue dates at the optimum time....the second half of the season when attendance usually has it's uptick.

If you don't like the way it's done now there is a simple solution...instead of changing the whole league to suit you....just don't attend any games after your personal cut off date. If you don't want to go to games in may or june....ok that's a persons choice...then don't go...no one is forcing anyone to attend a game if they don't want to go.

 

[go comets]

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the one thing that almost all AHL teams think about...revenue.
Most if not all teams are concerned with putting butts in the seats...albany excluded of course, by providing a template like you have, you are also cutting the possible revenue streams of some if not most teams. There are only so many weekends per season as it is now, and those dates are premium dates. if you use that template on this season alone, you've cut 6 possible revenue dates at the optimum time....the second half of the season when attendance usually has it's uptick.

If you don't like the way it's done now there is a simple solution...instead of changing the whole league to suit you....just don't attend any games after your personal cut off date. If you don't want to go to games in may or june....ok that's a persons choice...then don't go...no one is forcing anyone to attend a game if they don't want to go.

The playoffs drag on forever because everyone wants Friday and Saturday home games......

 

[HansH]

72 regular-season games might happen. 66 won't, in my opinion -- that's just too radical a reduction, less than any of the Major Junior teams, and less than any league other than the lowest level (SPHL and lower).

Someone may have floated the idea once, and all of a sudden a newspaper takes it and sensationalizes it and people think there's a genuine movement when it may just have been one person thinking out loud. Less than 72 games in the AHL season won't happen until and unless the NHL goes to 72 games or less -- that's _my_ prediction.

 

[axecrew]

The playoffs drag on forever because everyone wants Friday and Saturday home games......

You are 100% correct....I purpose that ALL playoffs rounds be a 1 game 1 and done series then we can finish the season by May 1st.

The AHL does the playoff schedule so that it is fair for all teams involved and also it is based on building availability. You don't get to "pick" when your games are with the exception to the penalty round where you have to choose between 2 or 3 home games and are essentially penalized for being good.
After that the ahl schedules the games whenever they want to and without regard to weekday vs. weekend.

 

[Jussi]

Then don't watch hockey at all. The NHL isn't ccutting its schedule. The European leagues start in August/ September and end in February/March.

The regulars season end in late February/early March, the playoffs end in mid-to-late April. E.g. the last possible date for game 7 of the Finnish league finals in April 25th.

 

[axecrew]

(I will assume you meant "the AHL doesn't want that many games that close together.")

Nowhere in there did I mention a number of games, just a number of weeks. That was intentional.

My point was: create a calendar framework (or 'template,' to use the word that the AHL aparently likes to use) and AFTER THAT, determine a number of games based on what fits in that template, taking all things into account (travel, # of practices, player preparation for NHL schedule, revenue lost to teams, fan demand, etc) . If 90 games are what makes sense, play 90. If 30 games make sense, play 30. (Exaggerated examples to illustrate the point.)

They should:
* Start as early as is feasible in October. Six months (or slightly less) of regular season games is plenty -- it gets you done by end of March.

They've done this....last season started Oct 3rd...can't get much earlier then that, season still ended on June 17th

* Two months in which to fit the playoffs is more than enough. End by Memorial Day.
Season ended mid april and playoffs ended mid june last year...they did this one also since mid april to mid june is 2 months

* Work backward from there to figure out the optimal # of regular season games and appropriate # of games in each playoff round.

Of course, they won't do this, because AHL.

See above comments

 

[MM658]

They've done this....last season started Oct 3rd...can't get much earlier then that, season still ended on June 17th

Yep..and they're talking about REDUCING the season. So, yeah. Start early Oct and be done by Memorial Day. That's a...reduction. That's my suggestion. You may not like it (which seems to be the case), and you don't have to. It is, after all, one fan's suggestion.

Or, they could extend the season through Labor Day -- lots of optimal revenue weekend dates in July, August and early September that are being totally underutilized!

* Two months in which to fit the playoffs is more than enough. End by Memorial Day.
Season ended mid april and playoffs ended mid june last year...they did this one also since mid april to mid june is 2 months

I didn't say two months for playoffs would be a change/reduction. I said it was more than enough. Plenty of time. Sufficient. Good. Keep it there; do not extend.

 

[wildcat48]

72 regular-season games might happen. 66 won't, in my opinion -- that's just too radical a reduction, less than any of the Major Junior teams, and less than any league other than the lowest level (SPHL and lower).

Someone may have floated the idea once, and all of a sudden a newspaper takes it and sensationalizes it and people think there's a genuine movement when it may just have been one person thinking out loud. Less than 72 games in the AHL season won't happen until and unless the NHL goes to 72 games or less -- that's _my_ prediction.

I think a 66-game schedule is a very real option. I’m not sure if it was on this thread or on another thread, but there was a time when I was speaking with Brian Burke and he kept mentioning that he felt 76 games were way too many for AHL teams to be playing because of the wear and tear it places on prospects. He kept saying that he’d like to see the AHL play a 60-game schedule and he cited college hockey which plays approx. 40-to-45 games per season and their development does suffer. He further explained/argued his point that players coming out of college hockey are better prepared for the rigors for the NHL because they are healthier, better trained and haven’t been overworked.

While I don’t believe we’ll ever see a 60-game schedule because private owners are not going want to give up that revenue I do think that there is enough of an NHL influence now on the Board of Governors that they could pass a 66-game schedule. Maybe private owners from Hershey, Chicago, Providence and Portland can convince the board to a comprise of 70 or 72 games, but I think the AHL is heading for full shock and awe structural changes for next season.

To that point I’ll add that I wouldn’t be shocked that when the CBA between the AHL and PHPA expire there isn’t some upheaval as NHL teams look to reduce the number of vets. They’ll look to fill those spots with a change in the agreement between the NHL/CHL where junior players must stay in the CHL until their 20 y/o or played 4 yrs of junior.

 

[aparch]

To that point I’ll add that I wouldn’t be shocked that when the CBA between the AHL and PHPA expire there isn’t some upheaval as NHL teams look to reduce the number of vets. They’ll look to fill those spots with a change in the agreement between the NHL/CHL where junior players must stay in the CHL until their 20 y/o or played 4 yrs of junior.

That's a pretty simple fix: quit signing or assigning veterans TO the AHL. The AHL rules limit how many veterans can be on the playing roster, but it doesn't state that you NEED to have veterans on the roster.

 

[RFA]

I don't see the AHL season ending much before the first round of NHL playoffs. I believe it's cheaper to keep the "Black Aces" playing under their SPC in the AHL than paying them extra, plus house them in the NHL...plus you've got to keep them busy and out of trouble.

I was going to comment on the season's length but then realized that there's a decent chance my opinion is worthless between Adirondack going out west and Albany's lease is up. I used to like a long season but now being one of 5 in the household my vote only carries about 20% of its previous weight, and that's on a good day.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

That's a pretty simple fix: quit signing or assigning veterans TO the AHL. The AHL rules limit how many veterans can be on the playing roster, but it doesn't state that you NEED to have veterans on the roster.

Actually, you are wrong. There is NO LIMIT on how many can be on the roster. The limit is how many can suit up for the game.

 

[aparch]

Sorry. Thought it was clear by qualifying roster with the word playing.

Either way, if NHL teams wanted so badly to eliminate veterans, then they'd quit signing them.

 

[RFA]

I never understood the veteran crock. I know the numbers etc, but in effect it devalues a guy who goes and plays in the AHL out for Jrs from say 20-25 while increases the value of the same guy if he goes and plays in Europe, NCAA, etc for a similar time period.

 

[axecrew]

I never understood the veteran crock. I know the numbers etc, but in effect it devalues a guy who goes and plays in the AHL out for Jrs from say 20-25 while increases the value of the same guy if he goes and plays in Europe, NCAA, etc for a similar time period.

Not to mention the veteran guys on your AHL teams mentor the young guys about how to be a pro on and off the ice. Keep screwing with the rules concerning this and my question will be....Who is mentoring the mentors? How can you expect a 22/23 yr old kid to be able to "teach" his teammates how to be a pro when he's still learning himself?

While I agree with the concept of your point there are a couple of things you have wrong...if a player plays in europe in one of the Elite league....say DEL or Swedish elite then those games count against the veteran rule. As for the NCAA...yes it's an advantage for a guy who plays all 4 years, but truthfully how many draft picks actually do that? Most draftees are gone by their jr years to the ahl or nhl.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

(I will assume you meant "the AHL doesn't want that many games that close together.")

Nowhere in there did I mention a number of games, just a number of weeks. That was intentional.

My point was: create a calendar framework (or 'template,' to use the word that the AHL aparently likes to use) and AFTER THAT, determine a number of games based on what fits in that template, taking all things into account (travel, # of practices, player preparation for NHL schedule, revenue lost to teams, fan demand, etc) . If 90 games are what makes sense, play 90. If 30 games make sense, play 30. (Exaggerated examples to illustrate the point.)

They should:
* Start as early as is feasible in October. Six months (or slightly less) of regular season games is plenty -- it gets you done by end of March.
* Two months in which to fit the playoffs is more than enough. End by Memorial Day.
* Work backward from there to figure out the optimal # of regular season games and appropriate # of games in each playoff round.

Of course, they won't do this, because AHL.

Again, this is all scheduling limitations by the AHL. There have been times when playoff series ended for both teams and they wait over a week to start the next round. I have also seen a week of time between games 2 and 3 or 5 and 6 of rounds. Ridiculous. Round 1 should be 7 days max. Round 2 should be 14 round 3 should be 14 and finals 14 days. This puts the championship finishng by the first week of june.

Perhaps they should do like the SEL - you know when each game of each round will be played. Fixed schedule. This is then incentive for the team to get the better seed with the preferred schedule.

The regulars season end in late February/early March, the playoffs end in mid-to-late April. E.g. the last possible date for game 7 of the Finnish league finals in April 25th.

The Austrian league regular season ends mid Feb I think, SEL early march,

Yep..and they're talking about REDUCING the season. So, yeah. Start early Oct and be done by Memorial Day. That's a...reduction. That's my suggestion. You may not like it (which seems to be the case), and you don't have to. It is, after all, one fan's suggestion.

Or, they could extend the season through Labor Day -- lots of optimal revenue weekend dates in July, August and early September that are being totally underutilized!




I didn't say two months for playoffs would be a change/reduction. I said it was more than enough. Plenty of time. Sufficient. Good. Keep it there; do not extend.

It is plenty of time if each team didn't want all their playoffs games on the weekend. So this will never happen.

Sorry. Thought it was clear by qualifying roster with the word playing.

Either way, if NHL teams wanted so badly to eliminate veterans, then they'd quit signing them.

You mixed your terminology in your statement. Sometimes it is not the NHL teams signing but the AHL teams signing. There was a big blow up with the Americans a few years ago with this situation in that the NHL team was supposed to sign x number to two-way contracts and didn't.

Fact is you can have 40 players on the AHL roster with 20 veterans but only 4 or so can be on the bench when the game starts.

Not to mention the veteran guys on your AHL teams mentor the young guys about how to be a pro on and off the ice. Keep screwing with the rules concerning this and my question will be....Who is mentoring the mentors? How can you expect a 22/23 yr old kid to be able to "teach" his teammates how to be a pro when he's still learning himself?

While I agree with the concept of your point there are a couple of things you have wrong...if a player plays in europe in one of the Elite league....say DEL or Swedish elite then those games count against the veteran rule. As for the NCAA...yes it's an advantage for a guy who plays all 4 years, but truthfully how many draft picks actually do that? Most draftees are gone by their jr years to the ahl or nhl.

Right you are!!! The SEL, DEL, Finnish, KHL, Swiss, and Austrian league games all count toward the veteran rule. NCAA and Juniors do not.

Players from the NCAA definitely have an advantage if they play to the max eligibility in college. For the most part, would you take a 24 year old player or a 20 year old player?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I never understood the veteran crock. I know the numbers etc, but in effect it devalues a guy who goes and plays in the AHL out for Jrs from say 20-25 while increases the value of the same guy if he goes and plays in Europe, NCAA, etc for a similar time period.

it was to reduce the glut of players.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

it was to reduce the glut of players.

If you want to reduce the "glut" of players, reduce the number of people playing and the teams at all the lower levels. 30-30-30-30-30-30-30-30 all the way down to peewee hockey worldwide

 

[adsfan]

@Tommy: I could be wrong, but I thought that the AHL Veteran rule was 4 skaters and 1 goalie are allowed to dress for a game?

 

[Disengage]

@Tommy: I could be wrong, but I thought that the AHL Veteran rule was 4 skaters and 1 goalie are allowed to dress for a game?

You're allowed to dress 5 veteran (321+ pro games played at start of season) and 1 "exempt" veteran (261-320 pro games played at start of season). Goalies are not counted in the rule. Also, exempt vets can be dressed as a normal vet (i.e. 4+2 instead of 5+1).

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

The ECHL and AHL would both likely benefit from going to 66 game schedules. What they should do are try to eliminate weekday games...if not Sundays too. 4 in 5 is awful and 3 in 3 is no better. Sunday games look like free skates and are boring. Weekday games nobody goes. The schedule is too long. The playoff races in minor league hockey aren't good enough to say cutting games would be a had deal.

I don't really care about competing with baseball. That only matters if you're a baseball fan and not every city has a baseball team anyway. What I hate the most are the games where you know teams aren't gunna give 100%. Back in the day 56 games against your division sounded great. But that's when we had actually rivalries and stuff and cores of teams stayed together and what not. Now minor league hockey is all about developing versus the actual team.