Player Discussion Adam "the Magician" Larsson

[McFlyingV]

A top four of Larsson/Klefa/Davidson/Sekera ain't that bad.

Fayne on the third pairing is serviceable.

Nurse/Oesterle/Reinhart to battle for the final two defence spots.

It would still be nice to bring a good 4/5D in. That protects the top four from injury and doesn't force allows for those three to battle for one final spot. Competition is good.

There should be some decent competition for that bottom pairing/7D spot with Nurse/Reinhart/Fayne/Oesterle/Musil. If I had to guess I'd expect one of Nurse or Reinhart to start in the AHL unless they both look very good in camp.

Really excited to see our D this year as there's a lot of younger guys who have a ton of potential that have been on good development curves. Could be some big leaps by a few of them.

 

[shoop]

There should be some decent competition for that bottom pairing/7D spot with Nurse/Reinhart/Fayne/Oesterle/Musil. If I had to guess I'd expect one of Nurse or Reinhart to start in the AHL unless they both look very good in camp.

Really excited to see our D this year as there's a lot of younger guys who have a ton of potential that have been on good development curves. Could be some big leaps by a few of them.

Agreed.

Now that the team has two RHD it really opens up who we can look at for winning a camp job and/or adding a new body by other means.

If you look back at the glory days Oilers the team never rolled with 3 RHD. I guess since the Penguins won with that it's the new norm.

 

[duul]

Keep in mind our #1 minute munching Dman in Justin Schultz is a #6 guy on a contending team. Sekera is probably a #5, Klefbom is a #4-5 or so. Same with Davidson. The rest of our D wouldn't play at all with Fayne into the #7 or #8 spot on contending teams. Larsson is way better than any D we have had in the past 10 years IMO. Much better at the defensive game than Viz or Souray. Won't put up as many points.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Keep in mind our #1 minute munching Dman in Justin Schultz is a #6 guy on a contending team. Sekera is probably a #5, Klefbom is a #4-5 or so. Same with Davidson. The rest of our D wouldn't play at all with Fayne into the #7 or #8 spot on contending teams. Larsson is way better than any D we have had in the past 10 years IMO. Much better at the defensive game than Viz or Souray. Won't put up as many points.

we knew schultz wasnt a number one and was just getting spoon fed minutes. this is a real stretch in logic.

sekera was already a #3 on a contender. petry was a #2/3 on a playoff team and you might be able to make a case that klef is better than petry.

too bold.

 

[duul]

we knew schultz wasnt a number one and was just getting spoon fed minutes. this is a real stretch in logic.

sekera was already a #3 on a contender. petry was a #2/3 on a playoff team and you might be able to make a case that klef is better than petry.

too bold.

Sekera played #4 minutes at best in L.A. and they floundered. Visually he is a #4 at the very best. He is incapable of carrying a line. He's too slow at doing things.

Petry played #3 minutes on a team with one good defenceman and one still decent but aging defenceman with the rest of the D being crap. Montreal is known to have a poor defensive group aside from Subban. Schultz would be a #3 on Montreal too.

Klefbom has more potential than Petry maybe, but he sure hasn't proven himself to be that way yet on the ice.

 

[Aerchon]

Larson and Sekera are 2/3 on most teams at least with Larson trending higher.

Klefbom by eye test to me looks like a 2/3 to me as well to finish the year but a very small sample size.

Fayne is criminally under rated, for good reason. He had a terrible year and provides so little offense overall but also finished decent and IMO is a 4/5 typically.

Davidson had an outstanding year and looks like a 3/4/5, small sample size.

Nurse, Reinhart, and Osterle all can fight for the 6/7/8 spots although I would prefer Gryba in that mix as well at least.

 

[Mr Positive]

Sekera played #4 minutes at best in L.A. and they floundered. Visually he is a #4 at the very best. He is incapable of carrying a line. He's too slow at doing things.

Petry played #3 minutes on a team with one good defenceman and one still decent but aging defenceman with the rest of the D being crap. Montreal is known to have a poor defensive group aside from Subban. Schultz would be a #3 on Montreal too.

Klefbom has more potential than Petry maybe, but he sure hasn't proven himself to be that way yet on the ice.

LA loved Sekera and would have re-signed him if they could have. LA's struggles go back to before the Sekera trade, which is why they made the trade. He only got to play 16 games with them before the injury, and he impressed the team and the fans. Before that, the Sekera-Faulk pairing was great in Carolina.

It's also kind of odd that visually you say he is a #4 at best, but you say that after a season where he was playing in the #1 slot, and seemingly the only player that didn't spend signficant time on LTIR. It seems a lot more likely to me that he was barely treading water because he was playing with guys like Nurse and an inconsistent Fayne, or Schultz who gave up, and with equal turmoil at forward and in net.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

Even people big into analytics have a hard time ranking a defensive defenceman like Larsson, who not only took the hardest minutes, but the hardest minutes by a staggering margin even compared to the next hardest minute defenceman (him and Greene).

I think his effect on GA and High danger scoring chances show an elite defensive player.

This might be an exaggeration but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a top 10 defensive player in the league. His offense leaves much to be desired, but his defense is top notch.

 

[bobbythebrain]

This might be an exaggeration but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a top 10 defensive player in the league. His offense leaves much to be desired, but his defense is top notch.

Not a stretch. Wasn't he #1 last year?

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

This might be an exaggeration but I wouldn't be surprised if he was a top 10 defensive player in the league. His offense leaves much to be desired, but his defense is top notch.

And the thing about his offense.. don't have the numbers on me but he started some crazy % in the D zone and did PK but no PP.. was utilized as a total shutdown guy and still finished positive on +/- (on a minus team) even though he wasn't used in an offensive role. Sounds like a stud to me.
Bet his points go up playing for us, he'll at least get a look on the PP, all he has to do is hit the net and avoid the shin pads.

 

[McOvechking]

We still don't really know what we have in Klefbom, but if I had to assess our dmen:

Larsson - #1
Klefbom - #3
Sekera - #3
Davidson - #4
Nurse - #6/7
Fayne - #5

I see us as having four top-4 defensemen, with one on the fringe (Fayne). Klefbom could easily develop into a #2 or even a #1 as early as this season.

 

[shoop]

We still don't really know what we have in Klefbom, but if I had to assess our dmen:

Larsson - #1
Klefbom - #3
Sekera - #3
Davidson - #4
Nurse - #6/7
Fayne - #5

I see us as having four top-4 defensemen, with one on the fringe (Fayne). Klefbom could easily develop into a #2 or even a #1 as early as this season.

Reinhart? Oesterle?

I don't think Nurse should be considered a lock for that 6/7 role. Would be a little disappointed in Chia if there are no more additions to the defence squad, even if it's to compete for that 6/7 spot.

 

[bobbythebrain]

Sekera played #4 minutes at best in L.A. and they floundered. Visually he is a #4 at the very best. He is incapable of carrying a line. He's too slow at doing things.

Petry played #3 minutes on a team with one good defenceman and one still decent but aging defenceman with the rest of the D being crap. Montreal is known to have a poor defensive group aside from Subban. Schultz would be a #3 on Montreal too.

Klefbom has more potential than Petry maybe, but he sure hasn't proven himself to be that way yet on the ice.

You obviously have no idea how good he was in Carolina

Visually? He played both sides on the worst dcore in the NHL. He made Nurse look bad as opposed to terrible. He made Fayne look like Weber. He also scored 30 points. Who was the last Edm dman to do that? And you are basically calling him a #5. Visually, he looked outstanding

 

[bobbythebrain]

We still don't really know what we have in Klefbom, but if I had to assess our dmen:

Larsson - #1
Klefbom - #3
Sekera - #3
Davidson - #4
Nurse - #6/7
Fayne - #5

I see us as having four top-4 defensemen, with one on the fringe (Fayne). Klefbom could easily develop into a #2 or even a #1 as early as this season.

This looks pretty accurate imo

 

[shoop]

You obviously have no idea how good he was in Carolina

Visually? He played both sides on the worst dcore in the NHL. He made Nurse look bad as opposed to terrible. He made Fayne look like Weber. He also scored 30 points. Who was the last Edm dman to do that? And you are basically calling him a #5. Visually, he looked outstanding

That's a bit of a positive evaluation. Let's split the difference between 'visually he was terrible' and your grading.

I think Sekera is a good solid 3D in this league. Maybe four or five teams he wouldn't fill that role on.

If Klefa is as advertised and can pair effectively with Larsson then Sekera is good and playing where he should be. Possibly a touch overpaid, but Larsson and Klefa are great value.

Would you trade Petry for Sekera straight up?

Maybe MacTerrible could have signed Petry to a better deal, but they are essentially on the same contract now. Petry is due half a million more over the life of his contract. They are both UFAs in 21/22.

 

[Panda Bear]

For this upcoming season, I'd have:

Larsson: #2, could be #1
Klefbom: #3, could be #2
Sekera: #3
Davidson: #4, could be #5
Fayne: #5
Reinhart: #6, could be #4
Nurse: #6, could be #5
Oesterle: #6, could be AHL

AHL surprises sometimes don't maintain their initial level of play because they eventually get scouted and don't have the tools to adapt.

A team may not know yet that a player is really weak on his backhand or isn't good at banking it off the boards, you know? That can change how you forecheck someone.

Players in their first few seasons can have a big, unprecedented jump in the quality of their play. It happened with Klefbom who jumped from being a #5/6 to a #3/4 to a potential #2 this very season.

The question as to whether a player is a certain number isn't just in the quality of play during a streak, but how long and how consistently they can maintain that level play after they become a known quantity.

 

[bobbythebrain]

That's a bit of a positive evaluation. Let's split the difference between 'visually he was terrible' and your grading.

I think Sekera is a good solid 3D in this league. Maybe four or five teams he wouldn't fill that role on.

If Klefa is as advertised and can pair effectively with Larsson then Sekera is good and playing where he should be. Possibly a touch overpaid, but Larsson and Klefa are great value.

Would you trade Petry for Sekera straight up?

Maybe MacTerrible could have signed Petry to a better deal, but they are essentially on the same contract now. Petry is due half a million more over the life of his contract. They are both UFAs in 21/22.

I take Sekera everyday and twice on Sundays!! When have we seen Petry play the other side? When have we seen Petry carry a decrepit d partner for 30 games. Sekera was a great signing to this point. He is a mentor and a utility player. In a couple years he might be a questionable signing, but right now, this point, he is Chia's best move. Ayoung team looking to take the next step?? Sekera is a blessing imo

 

[VainGretzky]

For this upcoming season, I'd have:

Larsson: #2, could be #1
Klefbom: #3, could be #2
Sekera: #3
Davidson: #4, could be #5
Fayne: #5
Reinhart: #6, could be #4
Nurse: #6, could be #5
Oesterle: #6, could be AHL

AHL surprises sometimes don't maintain their initial level of play because they eventually get scouted and don't have the tools to adapt.

A team may not know yet that a player is really weak on his backhand or isn't good at banking it off the boards, you know? That can change how you forecheck someone.

Players in their first few seasons can have a big, unprecedented jump in the quality of their play. It happened with Klefbom who jumped from being a #5/6 to a #3/4 to a potential #2 this very season.

The question as to whether a player is a certain number isn't just in the quality of play during a streak, but how long and how consistently they can maintain that level play after they become a known quantity.

Davidson is a very smart player and a good skater I see him even better this season with his feet wet now these players keep trending up. I expect a great season from him.

 

[Still DRAI]

I take Sekera everyday and twice on Sundays!! When have we seen Petry play the other side? When have we seen Petry carry a decrepit d partner for 30 games. Sekera was a great signing to this point. He is a mentor and a utility player. In a couple years he might be a questionable signing, but right now, this point, he is Chia's best move. Ayoung team looking to take the next step?? Sekera is a blessing imo

Not to cry over spilled milk or anything, but Petry carried Smid (who he made look like an NHL defensman after his body had failed him) and Marincin (who's a #6 on the leafs who was playing as a #3 on the Oilers) quite successfully.

He's gone now and there's no point rehashing how bad MacT screwed up, but Petry is proven to be able to carry weaker partners.

 

[McOvechking]

Reinhart? Oesterle?

I don't think Nurse should be considered a lock for that 6/7 role. Would be a little disappointed in Chia if there are no more additions to the defence squad, even if it's to compete for that 6/7 spot.

Both AHL defenders at this point in my opinion.

And I agree that Nurse shouldn't be a lock for that role, but no question he is currently good enough to fill it. The question becomes to we want him as a #1 in the AHL, or as a #6/7 in the NHL.

That's a bit of a positive evaluation. Let's split the difference between 'visually he was terrible' and your grading.

I think Sekera is a good solid 3D in this league. Maybe four or five teams he wouldn't fill that role on.

If Klefa is as advertised and can pair effectively with Larsson then Sekera is good and playing where he should be. Possibly a touch overpaid, but Larsson and Klefa are great value.

Would you trade Petry for Sekera straight up?

Maybe MacTerrible could have signed Petry to a better deal, but they are essentially on the same contract now. Petry is due half a million more over the life of his contract. They are both UFAs in 21/22.

Sekera was our #1 guy for all of last year. He didn't do too terribly in the role, either. I don't see why it's a stretch at all that he is a legitimate #3 guy.

For this upcoming season, I'd have:

Larsson: #2, could be #1
Klefbom: #3, could be #2
Sekera: #3
Davidson: #4, could be #5
Fayne: #5
Reinhart: #6, could be #4
Nurse: #6, could be #5
Oesterle: #6, could be AHL

AHL surprises sometimes don't maintain their initial level of play because they eventually get scouted and don't have the tools to adapt.

A team may not know yet that a player is really weak on his backhand or isn't good at banking it off the boards, you know? That can change how you forecheck someone.

Players in their first few seasons can have a big, unprecedented jump in the quality of their play. It happened with Klefbom who jumped from being a #5/6 to a #3/4 to a potential #2 this very season.

The question as to whether a player is a certain number isn't just in the quality of play during a streak, but how long and how consistently they can maintain that level play after they become a known quantity.

Yep, lots of question marks on defense right now. I'd argue the maybe's should go both ways, though:

Klefbom - #3; maybe #2 or maybe #4
Davidson - #5; maybe #4 or maybe #6
Nurse - #6; maybe #7 or maybe #5

etc.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

For this upcoming season, I'd have:

Larsson: #2, could be #1
Klefbom: #3, could be #2
Sekera: #3
Davidson: #4, could be #5
Fayne: #5
Reinhart: #6, could be #4
Nurse: #6, could be #5
Oesterle: #6, could be AHL

AHL surprises sometimes don't maintain their initial level of play because they eventually get scouted and don't have the tools to adapt.

A team may not know yet that a player is really weak on his backhand or isn't good at banking it off the boards, you know? That can change how you forecheck someone.

Players in their first few seasons can have a big, unprecedented jump in the quality of their play. It happened with Klefbom who jumped from being a #5/6 to a #3/4 to a potential #2 this very season.

The question as to whether a player is a certain number isn't just in the quality of play during a streak, but how long and how consistently they can maintain that level play after they become a known quantity.

This is generally how I see it.

 

[duul]

You obviously have no idea how good he was in Carolina

Visually? He played both sides on the worst dcore in the NHL. He made Nurse look bad as opposed to terrible. He made Fayne look like Weber. He also scored 30 points. Who was the last Edm dman to do that? And you are basically calling him a #5. Visually, he looked outstanding

I do know he was good in Carolina. That was a few years ago. Either he has regressed due to age or he simply had a bad year. Most of you are hoping he had a down year but I have no idea how the player I saw last season is going to start making faster plays with the puck and figure out how to hit our forwards in stride with the puck.

He was given #1 minutes most of the year until Davidson started doing the heavy lifted when coach realized he was a far more capable player. Unless Davidson regresses and Sekera improves his play next year, Davidson is a more worthwhile player to be giving minutes too.

 

[Senor Catface]

I do know he was good in Carolina. That was a few years ago. Either he has regressed due to age or he simply had a bad year. Most of you are hoping he had a down year but I have no idea how the player I saw last season is going to start making faster plays with the puck and figure out how to hit our forwards in stride with the puck.

He was given #1 minutes most of the year until Davidson started doing the heavy lifted when coach realized he was a far more capable player. Unless Davidson regresses and Sekera improves his play next year, Davidson is a more worthwhile player to be giving minutes too.

He was in Carolina only 1.5 years ago, not a few.

 

[duul]

He was in Carolina only 1.5 years ago, not a few.

The point I'm making is that it won't be ideal to have a #4 defenceman on a 5.5 mil salary. Although it may not be awful because our top pairing won't be making too much.

It will be very much like Carolina in 06 if we find any sort of success - a complete defence by committee. There's a reason that has only worked once in the past 20+ years, so I'm not very hopeful.

 

[MessierII]

The point I'm making is that it won't be ideal to have a #4 defenceman on a 5.5 mil salary. Although it may not be awful because our top pairing won't be making too much.

It will be very much like Carolina in 06 if we find any sort of success - a complete defence by committee. There's a reason that has only worked once in the past 20+ years, so I'm not very hopeful.

Meh I think the 2009 pens also did it without a true number 1. Gonchar was their best guy but they didn't have a really dominant guy or pairing.