Adam Johnson passed away after accident during game - Mod edit: Do not post the incident in the forum

[Ugene Magic]

I'll put it this way, if the guy in question was like Sidney Crosby, who played the game the right way that's decidedly different than say a Matt Cooke or Chris Simon.

Not all of his bad play has been penalized. But he does have a reputation.

 

[Ryder71]

Not all of his bad play has been penalized. But he does have a reputation.

Well, then that sheds a different light on it. I wasn't aware of anything beyond THAT video. My bad for not looking deeper into it, however I think you need to take into account the players history, if other incidents were reported or at least reviewed.

 

[Shrimper]

As someone who has lived in the UK for 25 years... what happened today is standard operating procedure here in the UK. Because it was a work place death--everyone knew this was going to happen

Could it end up as Death by Misadventure?

 

[Fordy]

he’s definitely closer to a matt cooke than a crosby

 

[Ryder71]

he’s definitely closer to a matt cooke than a crosby

Well, then that definitely needs to be considered.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Could it end up as Death by Misadventure?

not likely

in the UK death by misadventure usually us due to

1) Drinking beyond reasonable control _(Bon Scott ACDC)
2) Trying to take a selfie from a dangerous position --a youtube died a couple of years ago in Wales(I think) by trying to take a photo hanging off of a cliff

Death by misadventure is usually used when the person who died sort of caused their death

 

[Jacob]

Matt Cooke was scrambling brains several times a season.. this guy has 3 suspensions and 1.. trip?.. in 16 years? That’s just a normal career for a guy that’s not super talented and needs to do other stuff to stay in the lineup.

 

[Turin]

It absolutely deserves review. The guy has done similar things in the past including being banned from the goon league, ECHL, with nobody saying why. The way it looks on video, it looks like a bad hockey player attempting a really stupid and reckless maneuver to try to get a piece of the puck carrier. His interaction with the player throwing the pick does not seem to warrant his subsequent movement at all.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Matt Cooke was scrambling brains several times a season.. this guy has 3 suspensions and 1.. trip?.. in 16 years? That’s just a normal career for a guy that’s not super talented and needs to do other stuff to stay in the lineup.

In 34 games he has 145 PIM's and in 54 he has 129 sandwiching a 9 game with 10 penalty minutes season.

A a defenseman. While he's not a Matt Cooke or a Tom Wilson, he does reach for a lot of plays.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

As someone who has lived in the UK for 25 years... what happened today is standard operating procedure here in the UK. Because it was a work place death--everyone knew this was going to happen

Thanks for stating this.

The challenge many will have is there is a different process in the UK than in the US. In the US, arrests are directly tied to criminal charges being filed. In the UK, it's part of the investigative process and an arrest does not mean charges are coming.

 

[Jacob]

In 34 games he has 145 PIM's and in 54 he has 129 sandwiching a 9 game with 10 penalty minutes season.

A a defenseman. While he's not a Matt Cooke or a Tom Wilson, he does reach for a lot of plays.

Yeah but in NA he’d never reached triple digits. So did he lose his head these past 2 seasons or is it just a European thing? Are they trips and roughings and misconducts for scrums or clipping and kneeing and elbowing.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Thanks for stating this.

The challenge many will have is there is a different process in the UK than in the US. In the US, arrests are directly tied to criminal charges being filed. In the UK, it's part of the investigative process and an arrest does not mean charges are coming.

That is the big thing that people are overlooking.

The person arrested was involved in the death. He was arrested as part of the procedure. In Canada and the US--you get arrested and charged with a certain crime. Here you get arrested as part of the investigation

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

I don’t see involuntary manslaughter as a stretch here. Obviously, nobody is trying to kill anyone during a hockey game. But there is nothing natural about how the guy’s feet leave the ice. It just looks like an extremely reckless play where he was trying to get a piece of somebody, and lacked consideration for the safety of other players around him. It’s absolutely worth investigation and discussion. Anyone writing it off or judging others for entertaining the conversation is being extremely closed minded and judgmental.

 

[Ryder71]

I don’t see involuntary manslaughter as a stretch here. Obviously, nobody is trying to kill anyone during a hockey game. But there is nothing natural about how the guy’s feet leave the ice. It just looks like an extremely reckless play where he was trying to get a piece of somebody, and lacked consideration for the safety of other players around him. It’s absolutely worth investigation and discussion. Anyone writing it off or judging others for entertaining the conversation is being extremely closed minded and judgmental.

If you're suggesting the guys feet didn't leave the ice ''naturally'' or something along those lines than you're suggesting intent. And that's a pretty big leap to take.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah but in NA he’d never reached triple digits. So did he lose his head these past 2 seasons or is it just a European thing? Are they trips and roughings and misconducts for scrums or clipping and kneeing and elbowing.

Who knows? I'm not gonna go that deep. That league is not a high profile league as the NHL. Probably more lenient, for sure. Plus, he wasn't all that good, or fast, or he would be in the NHL.

Doing whatever it takes certainly reads of Petgrave's skill to keep playing and crossing the pond.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

If you're suggesting the guys feet didn't leave the ice ''naturally'' or something along those lines than you're suggesting intent. And that's a pretty big leap to take.

It’s not suggesting intent to murder. It is suggesting intent to make a ridiculously unsafe play. The way his feet left the ice and the motion of his legs made it look like he either got turnstiled, or was going for a big hit, realized he didn’t line the player up correctly, and then tried to take, as you said, a “big leap” as he was chasing a hit that he was behind on. Which is a dangerous play and resulted in his skates being unnaturally high off the ice.

It’s not a wild assumption, and it’s not crazy to investigate or have the conversation. We see players make unsafe plays in an attempt to be unnecessarily physical often, and it’s something that needs to be coached out of the game.

 

[Ryder71]

It’s not suggesting intent to murder. It is suggesting intent to make a ridiculously unsafe play. The way his feet left the ice and the motion of his legs made it look like he either got turnstiled, or was going for a big hit, realized he didn’t line the player up correctly, and then tried to take, as you said, a “big leap” as he was chasing a hit that he was behind on. Which is a dangerous play and resulted in his skates being unnaturally high off the ice.

It’s not a wild assumption, and it’s not crazy to investigate or have the conversation. We see players make unsafe plays in an attempt to be unnecessarily physical often, and it’s something that needs to be coached out of the game.

I've actually spent more time reviewing that hit, and while I don't believe he tried to kill anyone, it was reckless, careless and he probably did want to get a piece of Johnson, he just went too high. It was a regrettable act. That's pretty much all I can say. He wanted to hit him, I just think he lost his balance and it became deadly.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

I've actually spent more time reviewing that hit, and while I don't believe he tried to kill anyone, it was reckless, careless and he probably did want to get a piece of Johnson, he just went to high. It was a regrettable act. That's pretty much all I can say. He wanted to hit him, I just think he lost his balance and it became deadly.

I agree with this. The question is whether this is enough to consider a penalty for involuntary manslaughter. In my mind, it certainly could be. If this was the determination that was made and it happened outside of an ice rink, wouldn’t it be? A reckless, unnecessary, overly aggressive action that resulted in the death of another person.

 

[Ryder71]

I agree with this. The question is whether this is enough to consider a penalty for involuntary manslaughter. In my mind, it certainly could be. If this was the determination that was made and it happened outside of an ice rink, wouldn’t it be? A reckless, unnecessary, overly aggressive action that resulted in the death of another person.

I believe there should be some form of a penalty, The player in question for example should be made to pay in a civil court. It doesn't bring AJ back but if a portion of his paycheck is given to AJ's family for a specified duration of time at least he's reminded of his negligence and pays a price for it.

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

I believe there should be some form of a penalty, The player in question for example should be made to pay in a civil court. It doesn't bring AJ back but if a portion of his paycheck is given to AJ's family for a specified duration of time at least he's reminded of his negligence and pays a price for it.

In my mind, a fine isn’t enough if it is determined to be involuntary manslaughter. I would think there should be a certain amount of jail time. If I were AJ’s parents, and someone was reckless and inconsiderate and killed my kid, I would want to know that the person who did this was forced to lose a portion of their life in jail knowing that their actions led them there. Just my opinion.

And I can certainly understand where people would say this wasn’t involuntary manslaughter. It’s really hard call to make.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Id rather the guy have to put money towards youth hockey and safety in hockey programs more than jail

Jail isn't going to bring anyone back. I only worked in one for a decade, and it doesn't work. Usually the victims don't even actually feel better afterwards

But you can make him invest in things that will improve countless other lives. Make trust or estate pay into an Adam Johnson Foundation

I suppose you could go for both.

 

[blindpass]

Well, then that sheds a different light on it. I wasn't aware of anything beyond THAT video. My bad for not looking deeper into it, however I think you need to take into account the players history, if other incidents were reported or at least reviewed.

Don't take that guy's word for anything. He takes a lot of penalties, that's true, but I don't believe he had a bad reputation and players on Johnson's team vouched for him. They didn't blame him.

 

[Shrimper]

Released on bail at the moment

 

[BusinessGoose]

Released on bail at the moment

That's what the process is for

 

[blindpass]

For those pointing out his penalty minutes: he's also been one of the highest scoring defensemen in that league, so not just a goon.