Player Discussion Adam Gaudette, Pt. II

[bandwagonesque]

A cup of coffee in the NHL largely as a result of injuries to the parent club hardly constitutes an example or successful development. Perhaps at a later date, but not right now.

No one is claiming it does. An overager FA signing establishing himself as a 1st line AHLer and legitimate prospect very clearly does, however.

 

[Canucks1096]

I remember before Gaudette played his first nhl game, there was a hugh debate on his upside. Half were saying a top 6 center and half were saying bottom 6 center. I think at this point Gaudette developing into a top 6 center is slim to none. If he can develope into a good third line center than can get 30 to 40 points a season. Canucks should take that, even that is a stretch. Last season Gaudette didn't even show that he is a good 4th line center. Too many holes in his game right now. One major weakness Gaudette has is, he struggle so much with the pace of the nhl game. This is concerning considering the fact Green gave him easier match up. Maybe the AHL is the best option for him.

 

[Bad Goalie]

I remember before Gaudette played his first nhl game, there was a hugh debate on his upside. Half were saying a top 6 center and half were saying bottom 6 center. I think at this point Gaudette developing into a top 6 center is slim to none. If he can develope into a good third line center than can get 30 to 40 points a season. Canucks should take that, even that is a stretch. Last season Gaudette didn't even show that he is a good 4th line center. Too many holes in his game right now. One major weakness Gaudette has is, he struggle so much with the pace of the nhl game. This is concerning considering the fact Green gave him easier match up. Maybe the AHL is the best option for him.

All of your points are the reason the best possible thing for this season is to play the huge minutes in Utica in all situations that he should have played his rookie season. People claim Utica doesn't develop players and then they don't put them here when they should so they have the best chances to develop. It was true of McCann and Virtanen as well. Florida sent McCann down after acquiring him for developmental purposes. The guys actually sent here to play out their development, Vancouver either trades or decides they don't want them despite everything they have done to stand out in the AHL.

Benning has not been serious about any player he has sent here other than Demko, and Virtanen who he sent here for Green to make into a player of some kind thaty could be an NHL player to justify hois #6OA. Some would argue Markstrom, but markstrom was not one of his and he sent him down because the Comets needed 2 keepers. Markstrom shocked the pants off of Vancouver management.

Biega was another Benning had no idea about who was called up in a last ditch emergency and they haven't been able to get rid of him ever since. He fills a need they haven't been able to replace him with no matter how hard they have tried.

Other than those examples, he has either drafted 1st round, traded for, or signed as free agents every one of his Canucks. Who do you think he is counting on to become a replacement for anyone he will have signed to complete his 2019-20 roster. Those replacements are draft picks currently in the NCAA or draft pick currently playing in Europe. They will pass up any prospects here now. Benning has never used the farm for the purpose most NHL teams use their farms for. See how Tampa used Syracuse over the same time period and is currently stacked up once again going into this season.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Unless he (a) takes a big leap forward & (b) some of the bottom 6 junk gets cleared out, he's going to be starting the year in Utica.

 

[Frank Garrett]

I think, Gaudette could be a pretty good bottom six player. The Canucks should find a way to fit him in the lineup
If you look at who our bottom six should be, who we want to develop there (contracts aside), who brings value to the team, you have:
Virtanen, Roussel, Pearson, Leivo, Gaudette
I know people are penciling in Pearson for 2LW but in an ideal world, you have him 3LW because it gives you depth outside of the top6. (praying Baertschi is lights-out and plays a full season).
The wings are full, so i'd try to leave Gaudette at the C position. Which means, one of Sutter or Beagle has to go.

I thought it was noticeable in a good way when Gaudette got fired up and would start to play chippy. The first line is Petey's and the second is Bo's. I'd love to see an asshole/agitator/fore-check the shit out of them young Matt Cooke style 3rd line of Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen if they could build chemistry.

 

[sting101]

All of your points are the reason the best possible thing for this season is to play the huge minutes in Utica in all situations that he should have played his rookie season. People claim Utica doesn't develop players and then they don't put them here when they should so they have the best chances to develop. It was true of McCann and Virtanen as well. Florida sent McCann down after acquiring him for developmental purposes. The guys actually sent here to play out their development, Vancouver either trades or decides they don't want them despite everything they have done to stand out in the AHL.

Benning has not been serious about any player he has sent here other than Demko, and Virtanen who he sent here for Green to make into a player of some kind thaty could be an NHL player to justify hois #6OA. Some would argue Markstrom, but markstrom was not one of his and he sent him down because the Comets needed 2 keepers. Markstrom shocked the pants off of Vancouver management.

Biega was another Benning had no idea about who was called up in a last ditch emergency and they haven't been able to get rid of him ever since. He fills a need they haven't been able to replace him with no matter how hard they have tried.

Other than those examples, he has either drafted 1st round, traded for, or signed as free agents every one of his Canucks. Who do you think he is counting on to become a replacement for anyone he will have signed to complete his 2019-20 roster. Those replacements are draft picks currently in the NCAA or draft pick currently playing in Europe. They will pass up any prospects here now. Benning has never used the farm for the purpose most NHL teams use their farms for. See how Tampa used Syracuse over the same time period and is currently stacked up once again going into this season.

What are you going on about? McCann was dealt before he could go to Utica?

Gaunce Jensen Shinkaruk Grenier Cassels Subban Corrado Labate - fa Archibald Biega - via trade Markstrom Baertschi
Virtanen Demko Brisebois Juolevi Jasek Lind Gadjovich - fa MacEwen Sautner Chatfield - via trade Dahlen Goldobin

And as far as Gaudette where would he have been last year if Sutter and Beagle stayed healthy?.........yes that's right Utica. Gaudette is 22/23 he needs to play at NHL pace now not regress in the AHL. Obviously if we stayed healthy he could have played most of the year in Utica which would have been ideal but that didn't happen because of a plan it happened because of injury and he was a better option than Tanner Kero who has NHL experience. Time to have an impact with the Canucks and any other plan basically signals that Gaudette is not gonna be much good. He's not a 20/21yr old kid anymore

 

[sting101]

I remember before Gaudette played his first nhl game, there was a hugh debate on his upside. Half were saying a top 6 center and half were saying bottom 6 center. I think at this point Gaudette developing into a top 6 center is slim to none. If he can develope into a good third line center than can get 30 to 40 points a season. Canucks should take that, even that is a stretch. Last season Gaudette didn't even show that he is a good 4th line center. Too many holes in his game right now. One major weakness Gaudette has is, he struggle so much with the pace of the nhl game. This is concerning considering the fact Green gave him easier match up. Maybe the AHL is the best option for him.

What he struggled the most with was positional awareness, strength 1 0n 1 and keeping his feet moving. Gaudette is a fierce competitor i expect he will be a big suprise this year now that he got his feet wet. He will be more familiar with Greens expectations and his role. If he starts in Utica i dont expect it to be for long

 

[Bad Goalie]

What are you going on about? McCann was dealt before he could go to Utica?

Gaunce Jensen Shinkaruk Grenier Cassels Subban Corrado Labate - fa Archibald Biega - via trade Markstrom Baertschi
Virtanen Demko Brisebois Juolevi Jasek Lind Gadjovich - fa MacEwen Sautner Chatfield - via trade Dahlen Goldobin

And as far as Gaudette where would he have been last year if Sutter and Beagle stayed healthy?.........yes that's right Utica. Gaudette is 22/23 he needs to play at NHL pace now not regress in the AHL. Obviously if we stayed healthy he could have played most of the year in Utica which would have been ideal but that didn't happen because of a plan it happened because of injury and he was a better option than Tanner Kero who has NHL experience. Time to have an impact with the Canucks and any other plan basically signals that Gaudette is not gonna be much good. He's not a 20/21yr old kid anymore

Of course McCann was too young and so was Virtanen and both should have been sent back to Jrs like all the other teams do with prospects who aren't blue chip, can't miss right now, young studs. Neither was such.I would have thought you would have understood that. Sorry if you didn't.

Then a year in the minors and voila a much better pair of high draft picks. Because Vancouver was a hole, Benning kept them for publicity and stunted both of them. Jake had to be sent down for a year anyways once he was old enough and Florida did the same with McCann. Yeah, convince yourself they were ready. They proved overall they definitely were not. The production the Canucks got from those 2 kids they could have gotten from 1-yr free agents and waiver dumps.

Bet you Gaudette starts in Utica. Sutter + Beagle = Bottom six centers. Horvat + Pettersson =Top six centers. Benning believes in those 4. Gaudette was not exactly chewing up the world in the bottom 6 last season. 12 points? You had other Canucks who have center experience who would have done that. The kid got minimal minutes and didn't get special teams work. Is playing the minutes he got in Vancouver more valuable to a rookie than 20+ minutes a night as a top line center getting PP and even some PK duty? HE WAS A ROOKIE. You do realize that don't you? He was 5th round pick not a #1. He shouldn't be expected to just step right in and be a steady, dependable, productive NHL center.

He's also not a wing. He's being developed as a center. He's not going to spend time out on the wing until Sutter or Beagle play out their contracts, get traded, get hurt or die. The Canucks have bottom 6 wings coming out the ass. The last thing they need to be doing is ruining a potential center by not developing him into a pro center.

He's another kid who will not reach his potential because he isn't getting the chance to develop it. That's the difference fbetween the Lightning developing a kid in Syracuse and what he does when they bring him up from what happens with Vancouver's kids. Vancouver's are either very good NHL players right out of the gate or you are looking to get rid of them after 3 years or so when they never quite reach the potential you were aiming for.

The "plan" will never work because injuries are a fact of life. I told you last year he wouldn't be here very long and 14 was the number. It will be the same this year, but he will be the guy they send down because he can't get claimed. As soon as someone drops, hello Gaudette. Benning has lost every guy he wanted to send here and he's not going to lose another.

Gaudette in Utica will be the reason not to bring in the 3rd center the Comets do not have. Then he will be called up and that center spot will be vacant and filled with an ECHL bum just like the last 4 years. Then a Comet will go down and bingo, a center debacle in Utica. It's so ++++ing easy to plan for this ++++. You don't have to be a genius to sign one more center who will be on hand and be rotated with Hamilton the first few games until Vancouver calls Gaudette up. Then you have 4 and barely lose a beat. If a Comet center goes down you still have 3 and now you pick up loaner who just hope can tread water at #4. If Nobody goes down in Vancouver (yeah, right), great! Gaudette gets the maximum work he needs and when a Comet center goes down the extra guy rotating with Hamilton (who is the most likely to be hurt anyways) steps right in to the regular rotation and they go on without missing a beat just like is going on up in Vancouver.

 

[MS]

Gaudette's season was just a masterclass in terrible organizational development.

Gets sent to the AHL out of training camp, which is fine. Didn't have a good preseason. But then Beagle gets hurt and rather than being allowed to settle in the AHL he gets called up basically to be the #4 center (Kero could have been recalled instead) and plopped into 8-10 useless 4th line minutes/game. Which is fair for a few games to get his feet wet and see how he adjusts defensively. But they left him in that role for 3 months he just withered and was in a nothing position doing nothing.

So they send him back to the AHL for 10 games. Then immediately call him back up ... and put him right in the same spot getting 10 4th line minutes/game. He actually looked really good for stretch after coming back up and was one of our more dangerous players but was he promoted? Nope. Trundled out on the 4th line for another two months and again completely lost all momentum.

Apparently it was more important to shovel minutes at Beagle/Leivo/Granlund and the like to try and win meaningless games. And after the season is over, we know literally nothing about whether this player and where he fits in the roster going forward and have buried him under new signings.

You develop players by putting them in positions to succeed. If your rookie-allergic coach won't play him, he should have been getting 20 minutes/game as the #1 center in Utica. If the fact that Pettersson-Boeser are locked in as the top 2 centers means there isn't a spot high up the lineup for him, try him at wing with Pettersson for the back half of the season and see what happens. Couldn't possibly have produced less than Leivo and Goldobin. And if you see him as a defensive center, integrate him on the PK and give him some of Beagle's minutes. But none of that happened. There was no plan for this player and his season was mostly wasted.

 

[Askel]

Gaudette's season was just a masterclass in terrible organizational development.

Gets sent to the AHL out of training camp, which is fine. Didn't have a good preseason. But then Beagle gets hurt and rather than being allowed to settle in the AHL he gets called up basically to be the #4 center (Kero could have been recalled instead) and plopped into 8-10 useless 4th line minutes/game. Which is fair for a few games to get his feet wet and see how he adjusts defensively. But they left him in that role for 3 months he just withered and was in a nothing position doing nothing.

So they send him back to the AHL for 10 games. Then immediately call him back up ... and put him right in the same spot getting 10 4th line minutes/game. He actually looked really good for stretch after coming back up and was one of our more dangerous players but was he promoted? Nope. Trundled out on the 4th line for another two months and again completely lost all momentum.

Apparently it was more important to shovel minutes at Beagle/Leivo/Granlund and the like to try and win meaningless games. And after the season is over, we know literally nothing about whether this player and where he fits in the roster going forward and have buried him under new signings.

You develop players by putting them in positions to succeed. If your rookie-allergic coach won't play him, he should have been getting 20 minutes/game as the #1 center in Utica. If the fact that Pettersson-Boeser are locked in as the top 2 centers means there isn't a spot high up the lineup for him, try him at wing with Pettersson for the back half of the season and see what happens. Couldn't possibly have produced less than Leivo and Goldobin. And if you see him as a defensive center, integrate him on the PK and give him some of Beagle's minutes. But none of that happened. There was no plan for this player and his season was mostly wasted.

I agree completely. But guess you mean Petterson Horvat as the top 2 centers ,if you don't correct that a certain poster will call you out for a ten page argument.

 

[VanJack]

The only way Gaudette starts the season in Utica, is if Benning can't dump Sutter's contract. In fact Gaudette would be just as effective as Beagle in even a fourth-line role.

But when you have $7.5m a season tied up in two veteran centers, and Gaudette doesn't need waivers to be sent to Utica, I guess it's inevitable they'll take the easy way unless Gaudette is lights out at training camp.

 

[sting101]

Gaudette's season was just a masterclass in terrible organizational development.

Gets sent to the AHL out of training camp, which is fine. Didn't have a good preseason. But then Beagle gets hurt and rather than being allowed to settle in the AHL he gets called up basically to be the #4 center (Kero could have been recalled instead) and plopped into 8-10 useless 4th line minutes/game. Which is fair for a few games to get his feet wet and see how he adjusts defensively. But they left him in that role for 3 months he just withered and was in a nothing position doing nothing.

So they send him back to the AHL for 10 games. Then immediately call him back up ... and put him right in the same spot getting 10 4th line minutes/game. He actually looked really good for stretch after coming back up and was one of our more dangerous players but was he promoted? Nope. Trundled out on the 4th line for another two months and again completely lost all momentum.

Apparently it was more important to shovel minutes at Beagle/Leivo/Granlund and the like to try and win meaningless games. And after the season is over, we know literally nothing about whether this player and where he fits in the roster going forward and have buried him under new signings.

You develop players by putting them in positions to succeed. If your rookie-allergic coach won't play him, he should have been getting 20 minutes/game as the #1 center in Utica. If the fact that Pettersson-Boeser are locked in as the top 2 centers means there isn't a spot high up the lineup for him, try him at wing with Pettersson for the back half of the season and see what happens. Couldn't possibly have produced less than Leivo and Goldobin. And if you see him as a defensive center, integrate him on the PK and give him some of Beagle's minutes. But none of that happened. There was no plan for this player and his season was mostly wasted.

So your saying that Tanner Kero should have spent most the year in Vancouver instead of Gaudette? Are you implying that Green had better options available and didn't want to use them to the detriment of Adam Gaudette? Gaudette is a 96 born 22 yr old and they should have treated him with kid gloves despite the fact he was clearly the best C available after the top4 on their depth chart?

The plan was obvious i thought when they signed Beagle. Start in Utica and get good enough playing pro hockey to call him up down the stretch and give him NHL games....the same plan they had for Demko and Juolevi. 2 of the 3 were messed due to injuries. Who have they buried him under exactly because last time i checked they want Gaudette to be a centre?

He played his biggest minutes with Virtanen Roussel and Granlund in that order, Green was clearly trying to use him in a sheletered 3rd line role because of defensive issues which saw him sit in the 3rd period a lot. Aside from not being able to percolate in Utica for 20 or 30 games because of the season ending injury to Sutter i don't see how this was botched at all. Was Benning to tell Green that Gaudette was off limits to support an ideal development situation instead of the coach pulling the best choices in his mind to try and win?

 

[DL44]

@MS Pros and Cons to his usage last season... I obviously would have rather of not seen him last season based on what he looked like when up here... but we always hear about how valuable NHL practice/NHL ice time is for prospects to experience in any quantity for the pay off down the road.

I never had the feeling the team was screwing Gaudette over last yr. Some people would bitch about him getting 3 third period shifts.. i had no issue there, that's part if it.

The expectation now is he learned something about where he needs to be and the work he needs to put in to be an NHLer.

 

[MS]

@MS Pros and Cons to his usage last season... I obviously would have rather of not seen him last season based on what he looked like when up here... but we always hear about how valuable NHL practice/NHL ice time is for prospects to experience in any quantity.

I never had the feeling the team was screwing Gaudette over last yr. Some people would ***** about him getting 3 third period shifts.. i had no issue there, that's part if it.

The expectation now is he learned something about where he needs to be and the work he needs to put in to be an NHLer.

There was no plan.

If there's one thing I despise in prospect development it's the RUSH THE GUY TO THE ROSTER AND THEN STICK HIM ON THE BENCH/IN THE PRESSBOX thing that we did with Gaudette last year. And McCann and Virtanen a couple years before that. And bad organizations always seem to do - think of Niederreiter and NYI. It's something that happens when there is no plan behind 'get young guys on the roster'.

Either give him opportunities and put him in positions to succeed in the NHL, or if you don't want to do that or don't think he's ready, call up Kero instead and play Gaudette's balls off in the AHL.

Gaudette's year last year was basically wasted and we still have no idea what we have in this asset at age 23.

 

[MS]

So your saying that Tanner Kero should have spent most the year in Vancouver instead of Gaudette? Are you implying that Green had better options available and didn't want to use them to the detriment of Adam Gaudette? Gaudette is a 96 born 22 yr old and they should have treated him with kid gloves despite the fact he was clearly the best C available after the top4 on their depth chart?

The plan was obvious i thought when they signed Beagle. Start in Utica and get good enough playing pro hockey to call him up down the stretch and give him NHL games....the same plan they had for Demko and Juolevi. 2 of the 3 were messed due to injuries. Who have they buried him under exactly because last time i checked they want Gaudette to be a centre?

He played his biggest minutes with Virtanen Roussel and Granlund in that order, Green was clearly trying to use him in a sheletered 3rd line role because of defensive issues which saw him sit in the 3rd period a lot. Aside from not being able to percolate in Utica for 20 or 30 games because of the season ending injury to Sutter i don't see how this was botched at all. Was Benning to tell Green that Gaudette was off limits to support an ideal development situation instead of the coach pulling the best choices in his mind to try and win?

Yes, if they were going to play him 8-10 minutes/game, they absolutely should have called up an equivalent older center in Kero instead. Also Gaudette is not clearly better than Kero, and Kero is probably as good a player as Markus Granlund. The book for quite a while was that they didn't want to rush Demko to the NHL to stick him on the bench as a backup ... why should it be different for Gaudette?

Gaudette wasn't embarrassing himself defensively. Give him minutes. Give him opportunity. Try him on the wing on a scoring line. Or if not, play him in Utica. Instead, what they gave him was 8-10 minutes on a hodgepodge 4th line with a nightly 3rd period benching. 2 games out of 56 where he played 15 minutes. And you could see his confidence getting destroyed - especially after his second callup where he was flying for the first several games and one of our most dangerous guys, and just kept getting benched.

This player had no direction and no plan. It was a waste. But clearly, giving guys like Beagle/Granlund/Leivo huge minutes on a team way out of the playoffs was more important. I'm glad we did that.

 

[DL44]

There was no plan.

If there's one thing I despise in prospect development it's the RUSH THE GUY TO THE ROSTER AND THEN STICK HIM ON THE BENCH/IN THE PRESSBOX thing that we did with Gaudette last year. And McCann and Virtanen a couple years before that. And bad organizations always seem to do - think of Niederreiter and NYI. It's something that happens when there is no plan behind 'get young guys on the roster'.

Either give him opportunities and put him in positions to succeed in the NHL, or if you don't want to do that or don't think he's ready, call up Kero instead and play Gaudette's balls off in the AHL.

Gaudette's year last year was basically wasted and we still have no idea what we have in this asset at age 23.

So for you, the only value/reflection to a plan is game action?

 

[MS]

So for you, the only value/reflection to a plan is game action?

It's the best one. I believe in guys playing and being put in situations where they can succeed and excel. And where they have a clear direction and responsibilities.

Again, I despise putting young players on NHL rosters and sticking them in the pressbox or in limited 4th line minutes. And history tells us it doesn't work very well.

The way Gaudette was yo-yoed between the NHL and AHL and the scattered limited pointless minutes he was given does not indicate a plan. His usage was basically McCann all over again.

 

[sting101]

It's the best one. I believe in guys playing and being put in situations where they can succeed and excel. And where they have a clear direction and responsibilities.

Again, I despise putting young players on NHL rosters and sticking them in the pressbox or in limited 4th line minutes. And history tells us it doesn't work very well.

The way Gaudette was yo-yoed between the NHL and AHL and the scattered limited pointless minutes he was given does not indicate a plan. His usage was basically McCann all over again.

So what do you tell Green when he wants Gaudette his next best C to come up from Utica then?

And how do you know how things beyond the games are progressing in terms of off ice training, practice, video, getting familiar with his coaches and teammates. Does this factor in or have value?

And how would you have dealt with the loss of Sutter for the year and Beagle for 27 games?

 

[MS]

So what do you tell Green when he wants Gaudette his next best C to come up from Utica then?

And how do you know how things beyond the games are progressing in terms of off ice training, practice, video, getting familiar with his coaches and teammates. Does this factor in or have value?

And how would you have dealt with the loss of Sutter for the year and Beagle for 27 games?

You tell Green that either Gaudette gets substantial top-9 minutes or he stays in Utica and we call up Kero. That's, like, how it works. When we've had goalie injuries in the past we've called up Bachman instead of Demko for literally that exact reason. Goldobin in 17-18 wasn't called up when he was the best option because they wanted to have him get a long stretch down there working on his defense and then only call him up once, for keeps.

I don't know what's happening behind the scenes, obviously. But a) history tells us that calling up young players and not playing them isn't good for them b) Gaudette would have still had all those supposed positives if they were actually playing him in real minutes and c) these guys - especially after the Virtanen/McCann disaster - haven't really earned the benefit of the doubt on this.

As for the loss of Sutter and Beagle? Actually play Gaudette significant minutes or call up Kero, who is a completely capable player at the NHL level and - again - probably at least as good as Markus Granlund.

 

[sting101]

You tell Green that either Gaudette gets substantial top-9 minutes or he stays in Utica and we call up Kero. That's, like, how it works. When we've had goalie injuries in the past we've called up Bachman instead of Demko for literally that exact reason. Goldobin in 17-18 wasn't called up when he was the best option because they wanted to have him get a long stretch down there working on his defense and then only call him up once, for keeps.

I don't know what's happening behind the scenes, obviously. But a) history tells us that calling up young players and not playing them isn't good for them b) Gaudette would have still had all those supposed positives if they were actually playing him in real minutes and c) these guys - especially after the Virtanen/McCann disaster - haven't really earned the benefit of the doubt on this.

As for the loss of Sutter and Beagle? Actually play Gaudette significant minutes or call up Kero, who is a completely capable player at the NHL level and - again - probably at least as good as Markus Granlund.

Points taken but i don't feel its any worse to bench Gaudette in the 3rd than it is to bench Virtanen or Goldobin or whoever looks like they may cost you the game because they are making poor decisons on the ice, especially without any proven track record of paying off in terms of production. There is zero chance in the first half of the season a coach is not gonna do whats best for the team.

You dont force minutes because of one players development and again were talking about 20-30 games here. It looked to me like Adam would start out each game with a decent chance to succeed and play his way to the bench. Not the 4th line no opportunity that you are talking about for the most part.

Biggest issue here unlike Virtanen is that the circumstance was driven by injury. The past has no bearing on that.

His development was a positive for me. The negative was he had to be rushed and probably got a big dose of reality in how tough a league the NHL is quicker than we would have liked. If there is one thing we know about Gaudette is don't look for that to be negative. This kid has an extremely high compete level and the 50 plus games he played will give him plenty of motivation to get to another level.

 

[MS]

Points taken but i don't feel its any worse to bench Gaudette in the 3rd than it is to bench Virtanen or Goldobin or whoever looks like they may cost you the game because they are making poor decisons on the ice, especially without any proven track record of paying off in terms of production. There is zero chance in the first half of the season a coach is not gonna do whats best for the team.

You dont force minutes because of one players development and again were talking about 20-30 games here. It looked to me like Adam would start out each game with a decent chance to succeed and play his way to the bench. Not the 4th line no opportunity that you are talking about for the most part.

Biggest issue here unlike Virtanen is that the circumstance was driven by injury. The past has no bearing on that.

His development was a positive for me. The negative was he had to be rushed and probably got a big dose of reality in how tough a league the NHL is quicker than we would have liked. If there is one thing we know about Gaudette is don't look for that to be negative. This kid has an extremely high compete level and the 50 plus games he played will give him plenty of motivation to get to another level.

Gaudette was regularly, automatically benched in the 3rd period in pretty much every game (excluding blowouts) regardless of how well he played. There were multiple games in which we were commenting/expressing frustration that he'd looked like one of the most dangerous players on the team in his 8 or 10 shifts in the first half of the game and was then parked the rest of the way.

I have no issues with benching a player if he's performing poorly or in the last 5 minutes of a 1-goal game. But auto-benching young players for the 3rd period every night when you're miles out of a playoff spot just completely sucks and I fail to see any benefit to it.

 

[Nazzlind]

Gaudette was regularly, automatically benched in the 3rd period in pretty much every game (excluding blowouts) regardless of how well he played. There were multiple games in which we were commenting/expressing frustration that he'd looked like one of the most dangerous players on the team in his 8 or 10 shifts in the first half of the game and was then parked the rest of the way.

I have no issues with benching a player if he's performing poorly or in the last 5 minutes of a 1-goal game. But auto-benching young players for the 3rd period every night when you're miles out of a playoff spot just completely sucks and I fail to see any benefit to it.

Doesn’t pretty much every coach do this with most young players though ?

 

[VanJack]

If you look at the history of Hobey Baker winners in the NHL, most arrive sooner rather than later. In fact few recent winners have spent much time in the minors at all.

Like a lot of Canuck watchers, I'd like to see Gaudette start the season in the NHL. It's really the only way he's going to get better, faster facing the best competition night after night.

 

[MS]

Doesn’t pretty much every coach do this with most young players though ?

No, actually. At least not the good coaches, and not on teams this bad who are competing for nothing. Jon Cooper and Joel Quenneville are two guys very well known for putting young players in positions to succeed and giving them responsibility.

There are plenty of 22 y/o rookies around the league who were given much more of a look than Gaudette was last year. And Virtanen was treated similarly in 17-18, when literally nothing he could do would get him more than 10 minutes/game, and then in 18-19 when he was playing much worse there was nothing he could do to get under 13-14 minutes/game.

 

[alternate]

It's the best one. I believe in guys playing and being put in situations where they can succeed and excel. And where they have a clear direction and responsibilities.

Again, I despise putting young players on NHL rosters and sticking them in the pressbox or in limited 4th line minutes. And history tells us it doesn't work very well.

The way Gaudette was yo-yoed between the NHL and AHL and the scattered limited pointless minutes he was given does not indicate a plan. His usage was basically McCann all over again.

So what if playing Gaudette in the 3rd period wasn't putting him in a situation to "succeed and excel?" You seem to be taking the position that ice time = being put into a situation to succeed and excel. Extra ice time can also mean putting a player in position to fail.

Over Gaudette's last 20 NHL games (From Feb 23), AG played 9:xx minutes twice, and 10:xx minutes twice, and 16 games with 11+ minutes. This includes a high of 16:26, his final 7 games all being over 12mins, and his last 3 being 14+ mins. 12 of his last 20 were over 12 mins. This idea that Gaudette just sat, lonely and forgotten, at the end of the bench is a false narrative.

Nothing is worse for a young player's confidence than being throw in over his head, and have a screw up cost the team a game late in the third. I thought Green did a good job down the stretch of rewarding AG when his play warranted it, while balancing putting him in situations where his inevitable mistakes didn't directly cost the team games.

I'd be fine with starting AG in Utica. But I expect he'll be a positive in our bottom 6 by end of the season.