Adam Fox, Cale Makar or Miro Heiskanen?

[avsfan9]

Explain on Fox… every single metric backs up his exceptional defense. It’s even more obvious watching the games that he’s the best defensive defender on the ice every night.

Where are all the fancy charts and stats that show that he’s so much better defensively then everyone else. He s a great young d man and no one is saying he isn’t but the way some act is that he’s head and shoulders above every one else. When I watch him play I don’t see him being much different than Makar, Heiskanen, Mcavoy or any of the other young d men in the league. I do notice he’s getting more pp points this year but that’s it. The biggest argument is “ well…. Just watch him play…” I did and I do and I don’t see any better player than those I listed above. He is certainly not as impressive as Makar from the eye test.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Where are all the fancy charts and stats that show that he’s so much better defensively then everyone else. He s a great young d man and no one is saying he isn’t but the way some act is that he’s head and shoulders above every one else. When I watch him play I don’t see him being much different than Makar, Heiskanen, Mcavoy or any of the other young d men in the league. I do notice he’s getting more pp points this year but that’s it. The biggest argument is “ well…. Just watch him play…” I did and I do and I don’t see any better player than those I listed above. He is certainly not as impressive as Makar from the eye test.

lol eye test. so basically Makar is a better skater = better from the eye test.

 

[avsfan9]

lol eye test. so basically Makar is a better skater = better from the eye test.

Better skater, better shot, better goal scorer, better passer, better carrying pucks out of his own end, elusive…. Just better!

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Better skater, better shot, better goal scorer, better passer, better carrying pucks out of his own end, elusive…. Just better!

You are the only one trashing anyone here, so you are creating a straw man. Nobody said Fox is a lot better. It’s you that is suggesting your team’s player is a lot better.

 

[avsfan9]

You are the only one trashing anyone here, so you are creating a straw man. Nobody said Fox is a lot better. It’s you that is suggesting your team’s player is a lot better.

Not trashing just having a little fun. Everyone thinks their guy is better and nothing wrong with it. These players are really close right now and that’s the ways it will be throughout their careers. Enjoy your player

 

[QJL]

Where are all the fancy charts and stats that show that he’s so much better defensively then everyone else. He s a great young d man and no one is saying he isn’t but the way some act is that he’s head and shoulders above every one else. When I watch him play I don’t see him being much different than Makar, Heiskanen, Mcavoy or any of the other young d men in the league. I do notice he’s getting more pp points this year but that’s it. The biggest argument is “ well…. Just watch him play…” I did and I do and I don’t see any better player than those I listed above. He is certainly not as impressive as Makar from the eye test.

Your eyes have deceived you. Makar’s skating and gamebreaking plays are otherworldly, but Fox is ahead of him in almost every major advanced category. His style is more subtle but his effectiveness has a definitive edge. Evolving Hockey and Natural Stat Trick have the numbers. Surprisingly, the gap between Fox’s offensive advanced stats and Makar’s is even greater than the defensive advanced stats.

 

[avsfan9]

Your eyes have deceived you. Makar’s skating and gamebreaking plays are otherworldly, but Fox is ahead of him in almost every major advanced category. His style is more subtle but his effectiveness has a definitive edge. Evolving Hockey and Natural Stat Trick have the numbers. Surprisingly, the gap between Fox’s offensive advanced stats and Makar’s is even greater than the defensive advanced stats.

20 games into the season when Makar was clearly injured at the beginning are skewing the numbers. Makars one game against the caps where he was a -6 is throwing his numbers way off. If you go back the 8 games where Mackinnon was injured I guarantee the numbers tell a whole different story. The numbers are what they are but if Makar was not injured to start the season it looks a lot different. If you look at career numbers it’s a lot different as well

 

[QJL]

20 games into the season when Makar was clearly injured at the beginning are skewing the numbers. Makars one game against the caps where he was a -6 is throwing his numbers way off. If you go back the 8 games where Mackinnon was injured I guarantee the numbers tell a whole different story. The numbers are what they are but if Makar was not injured to start the season it looks a lot different. If you look at career numbers it’s a lot different as well

If you are going to guarantee based on numbers, go find the numbers to back your guarantee.

 

[avsfan9]

If you are going to guarantee based on numbers, go find the numbers to back your guarantee.

Adam Fox 148 gp 114 pts playoff 3 gp 0 pts

Cale Makar 119 gp 115 pts playoff 35 gp-31 pts

I like to look at the whole picture not a 20 game sample size, where one player was injured and missed all of training camp but you do you! I will leave it at that!

 

[GettingYourMoms]

I am voting for Fox, i think he has highest upside and is already best player from those three. Also i hate Rangers, so no bias.

 

[The S5]

Most of the discussion seems to be about offence rather than defence. Personally, I think defence is more important when assessing defencemen, and as far as defensive play goes, Adam Pelech is far better than either Fox or Makar.

But talking team defence (as though Makar was the only defenceman on the team) makes team offence as relevant, and probably more so, as offence seems to be the main point.

Rangers are scoring 0.38 more goals per game than they are allowing. Avs are scoring 0.7 more.

If you want to blame Makar for the Avs' allowing more goals, you should also credit him with their scoring more, and also for their better GF - GA.

Hahahahahahahahahha!!!
Pelech is starting to be way over rated. Good player. Any team would love to have him but slow your roll. He isn't way better than any of the D mentioned here.

 

[Jugitsu]

I like Makar’s skillset and talent the most. But I picked Fox because Makar can’t stay healthy even if his life depended on it. I’m a Heiskanen fanboy through and through but he’s not in the same ballpark as a dynamic offensive juggernaut as the other two.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Voted Heinskanen but was very close with Fox. Makar is up there with them but can’t seem to be able to stay healthy for more than 10 games so he’s out of the race for me

 

[rangersfansince08]

20 games into the season when Makar was clearly injured at the beginning are skewing the numbers. Makars one game against the caps where he was a -6 is throwing his numbers way off. If you go back the 8 games where Mackinnon was injured I guarantee the numbers tell a whole different story. The numbers are what they are but if Makar was not injured to start the season it looks a lot different. If you look at career numbers it’s a lot different as well

This going to be the excuse every year?

 

[rangersfansince08]

Adam Fox 148 gp 114 pts playoff 3 gp 0 pts

Cale Makar 119 gp 115 pts playoff 35 gp-31 pts

I like to look at the whole picture not a 20 game sample size, where one player was injured and missed all of training camp but you do you! I will leave it at that!

Fox's rookie season drags this down because he was on PP2 behind Deangelo. But you knew that.

And what are you faulting Fox for? For his team not making the playoffs?

 

[rangersfansince08]

Voted Heinskanen but was very close with Fox. Makar is up there with them but can’t seem to be able to stay healthy for more than 10 games so he’s out of the race for me

Makar's not injury prone or anything. Its east coast bias.

 

[Vide]

Love both Makar and Heiskanen but Fox is the best right now.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Hahahahahahahahahha!!!
Pelech is starting to be way over rated. Good player. Any team would love to have him but slow your roll. He isn't way better than any of the D mentioned here.

Purely defensively, yes he is.

(I see you only responded to the least relevant part of my post.)

 

[rangersfansince08]

Purely defensively, yes he is.

(I see you only responded to the least relevant part of my post.)

Some people like two way D and forwards not just purely defensive guys like Pelech (and apparently Barazl-something needs to explain his regressing numbers right?)

 

[notDatsyuk]

Some people like two way D and forwards not just purely defensive guys like Pelech (and apparently Barazl-something needs to explain his regressing numbers right?)

So do I, but that little throw-away comment seems to have been the only thing that poster noticed.

Not sure what Barzal has to do with anything in a discussion about defencemen.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Just noticed something funny. Makar loves to beat up on the bad, non-playoff teams but has trouble scoring goals on the good, playoff teams...

Scored goals vs:
Philly
Habs
Dallas
Ducks
Ott (2x)
Sea (2x)
Stl
Vegas

Only one team out of those is in the top 8 of their conference.

He actually only has 5 of his points 22 points vs playoffs teams (and 3 came in 1 game vs Nashville)

 

[notDatsyuk]

Just noticed something funny. Makar loves to beat up on the bad, non-playoff teams but has trouble scoring goals on the good, playoff teams...

Scored goals vs:
Philly
Habs
Dallas
Ducks
Ott (2x)
Sea (2x)
Stl
Vegas

Only one team out of those is in the top 8 of their conference.

He actually only has 5 of his points 22 points vs playoffs teams (and 3 came in 1 game vs Nashville)

I pointed out the same thing about Fox last year:

Against the three worst teams, he had 2 goals and 29 assists, and was +22.
Against the three best teams, he had 1 goal and 8 assists, and was even.

I was told I was 'cherry picking', and that scoring is irrelevant.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Fox. Maybe a bit worse offensively than Makar but still super elite there. He is simply a much better defender and has less health concerns. He is exactly what comes to mind when I try and picture a perfect defenseman. Better defensively than offensively, but tops in the league at both, smart with and without the puck and tilts the ice. Heiskanen isn't on the same level as the other 2.

 

[Spilot23]

Just noticed something funny. Makar loves to beat up on the bad, non-playoff teams but has trouble scoring goals on the good, playoff teams...

Scored goals vs:
Philly
Habs
Dallas
Ducks
Ott (2x)
Sea (2x)
Stl
Vegas

Only one team out of those is in the top 8 of their conference.

He actually only has 5 of his points 22 points vs playoffs teams (and 3 came in 1 game vs Nashville)

Well somebody has to score goals since Mack and Rants combined have the same amount of goals as Makar

 

[hockeydog23]

Makar AINEC. Adam Fox is already -1 tonight. So much for that great defense. Just terrible, five minutes into the game and -1 already! End of discussion.