Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXXV: Trotzyism in Action

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Someone please explain me to how trading MaJo + Green for Helm + Kindl makes us a better team. Green > Kindl and Johansson > Helm.

It improves the PK, gives the team the best 3rd line in the league, and at this point, Green's likely not getting more than 17-18 minutes per game. Before Niskanen? Yeah it'd be a tough trade to swallow. After? It's one of those 'build a team' trades, rather than a 'win the trade' trade.

And Johansson is not better than Helm.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Darren Helm is not a 2C. If we're targeting centers from Detroit, I'd rather go all in on someone like Zajac with Green and Mojo+. Or go all in with a lot of +++ for Henrique.

Uh, what?

 

[Carlzner]

And Johansson is not better than Helm.

Yes he is.

He's also 4 years younger. Helm was a rookie at Mojos age.

 

[strungout]

Yes he is.

Uh...no...he's not.

If you are basing this argument off of total points...you're not going to win.

 

[442]

Uh...no...he's not.

If you are basing this argument off of total points...you're not going to win.

Agree w strung and would also add that Helm seems like a perfect Trotz system guy.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

The only thing Johansson's done better than Helm is get into a scoring line role.

Helm's got better production/TOI rates, and is far superior in every non-offense hockey area.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Helm had as many shorties last year as Johansson had ESG.

 

[Capathetic]

Could we not complain about Green's injuries if we plan on trading him for a guy that is banged up even more?

Sheesh 45 games in the last three years? I do love his speed and feistiness but how long can he hold up?

 

[Vabeachblue]

Helm is a better player. Mojo is a *****

 

[Hivemind]

HFBoards Caps fans' hatred of Johansson is a parody of itself at this point.

 

[strungout]

HFBoards Caps fans' hatred of Johansson is a parody of itself at this point.

I'd love for the kid to be a player...he can skate with the best of them...but his lack of physical play and board work is not going to work with a Trotz coached team or any team for that matter.

Call that hatred if you want....but its a legit concern with him as a player.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

It improves the PK, gives the team the best 3rd line in the league, and at this point, Green's likely not getting more than 17-18 minutes per game. Before Niskanen? Yeah it'd be a tough trade to swallow. After? It's one of those 'build a team' trades, rather than a 'win the trade' trade.

And Johansson is not better than Helm.

I don't agree with anything you wrote. It's a terrible idea on every level to trade 2 better players for 2 worse ones. Yes, Johansson is better than Helm. He's more versatile, is younger, and has a higher ceiling. And even if I grant you that Helm is slightly better than Johansson, Green >>>> Kindl.

A "build a team trade" does not entail sending out better players than the ones you receive. Kindl/Orlov is a garbage 3rd pairing. Kindl/Orpik is worse. Trading MJ90 for Helm does nothing to address our 2nd line, and in fact gives us little to no insurance to injuries in the top 6.

It's one of those "terrible use of assets trade" which would be right up our alley. If it was Green for Kindl + Helm, I'd consider it. Adding MJ90 is a joke.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Johansson was good on the PK 4 years ago. He's barely played there since then scaling gradually to a career low of 26 minutes last year.

This is blatantly wrong. He was one of the team leaders for forwards at PK TOI last season. Can't find the stats but I believe he was behind only Nicky and Ward.

 

[Liberati0n*]

This is blatantly wrong. He was one of the team leaders for forwards at PK TOI last season. Can't find the stats but I believe he was behind only Nicky and Ward.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....t=avgShortHandedTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

10th, :19/game

Granted, Latta only played 17 games, so by total time Johansson is all the way up to 9th among forwards.

Sidenote: Interesting that they had Latta PKing. I didn't remember that.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

This is blatantly wrong. He was one of the team leaders for forwards at PK TOI last season. Can't find the stats but I believe he was behind only Nicky and Ward.

Yeah, this is real tricky information to find. Tell us more about what you believe about Johansson.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=shortHandedTimeOnIce&viewName=timeOnIce

 

[Hivemind]

I'd love for the kid to be a player...he can skate with the best of them...but his lack of physical play and board work is not going to work with a Trotz coached team or any team for that matter.

Call that hatred if you want....but its a legit concern with him as a player.

The focus is so much on what Johansson can't do rather than what he brings to the table. Johansson was a bigger possession boost to Ovechkin and Backstrom than they were to him, scored at a healthy clip, and is incredibly affordable on a cap strapped team. He's one of the few remaining fast players on the team and one of the fewer still skilled players on the team. He was miscast as a F1 and down low presence by Oates, as quite possibly miscast as a LW as well, so much of what he doesn't do well was emphasized.

You're never going to field a roster of 18 complete players. Johansson is a quality role player, just like Darren Helm. However, filling Johansson's role tends to be much more expensive, both in terms of cap space and trade assets, than filling Helm's.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

HFBoards Caps fans' hatred of Johansson is a parody of itself at this point.

Not particularly. I'm one that said he had Zetterberg-like upside in year 1 or 2. He's proven since then that he can't compete physically in the dirty areas. If you can't win battles in the NHL, you're not much of a player unless you've got elite offensive skills (e.g., Mike Green). He's a European ice player, not a North American ice player.

 

[SkinsFan09]

People going to the woodshed to defend Mojo? He can skate, that's it. Nothing else he brings to the table is more than average at best. And he is a miserable finisher, that's for sure.

For a legit 2C I'd prefer someone else over either of them but if we are just asking who the better NHL player is, it's Helm.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Yeah, this is real tricky information to find. Tell us more about what you believe about Johansson.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=shortHandedTimeOnIce&viewName=timeOnIce

Eh, I was wrong. He was 6th in 2012-2013, and 9th last year. Coincidently, his PP/TOI and ES/TOI increased as well which would explain the decrease in PK/TOI.

I believe what I've said all along. He's young with 2C upside, he was rushed into a role he wasn't ready for, he plays out of position, he's versatile, and the hatred for him around here is comical.

Tell me more about trading +++ assets for another RW.

 

[usiel]

Long live roman numerals!

 

[Hivemind]

All aboard USS Grinders!

 

[ChibiPooky]

I feel like a lot of the reason people are down on Johansson is his epically (and unsustainably) low shooting percentage last season.

 

[trick9]

Wings fans have massive thread about Green on their boards.

Some of them would be willing to offer 1st ('16) + Tatar + Kindl. Even if Kindl is nowhere close to Green right now i would still take that deal and run.

 

[Brian23]

Uh, what?

Brain Phart. Still, Helm isn't someone I'd be going for at all. I'd rather play Fehr at 3C again then trade Green for Helm.

 

[Blades of Steel]

It's been quoted that Trotz wants to play an up-tempo in your face kind of game. (like the kings.) Can anyone picture Mojo making the cut in LA? Uh, doubt it. He's way way too soft.

I wish him the best, and I hope he gets better, but he's nothing special.