Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIX

[strungout]

We had success with run and gun players under a run and gun coach. There was no reason other than HALAK!! caving to outside pressures that made us turn away from that.

Added that.

And now we have him.

Time is a flat circle.

 

[Carlzner]

Not one successful team got there without failing one way, trying something else, failing that way, trying something else, failing there, then eventually succeeding after running out of ways to fail. That includes changing coaches, GMs, draft strategies, on ice strategies, player development strategies, scouting strategies, UFA pursuit and evaluation strategies, trading strategies, extracurricular activities of players, sleep cycle of players, having a team pet... everything. Nothing is sacred. Not Ovechkin, not rare Mike Green, not Leonsis' business savvy. You can fall on your face, spectacularly, but it's also the only way to win. Boston traded Thornton, traded Kessel, traded Seguin. Each of those had more potential for blowback than anything McPhee had ever done, and some backfired spectacularly (at least on paper). Yet they're one of the winniest teams in the league now, because they figured out what strategy works and put all their resources into pursuing that strategy. Same deal with Chicago. Pittsburgh is actually more in our boat, they just have a lot more talent but comfort zones they let get in the way of winning (Fleury, Letang, Bylsma). Blues and Sharks are also trending towards Boston/Chicago.

I think the trend of teams doing well is more that their GMs have a very good vision and sometimes make huge trades to fit that vision. Not necessarily just making big trades for the sake of making big trades like it seems some on here are suggesting. I don't see how Chicago made huge or ballsy moves to become as successful as they are, they pretty much drafted their entire core... It just took them awhile to do it.

Boston is kind of an odd example because with the Thornton trade they got a very poor return and didn't reap the "benefits" until much much later. It's questionable to use the Thornton trade in support of their cup win because it happened so much later. We don't have the benefit of waiting a long time because of Ovechkin's age and status, unless we want a clean slate which would mean getting rid of Ovechkin. And that pretty much means rebuild.

I just don't see how keeping Ovechkin and trading someone like Backstrom is the ballsy kind of move that could lead us closer to a cup. Yeah, that works for some teams but... not as many as people on here keep mentioning.

 

[BobRouse]

Added that.

And now we have him.

Time is a flat circle.

haha

It could be said that Pitt getting Halaked hurt them too. They were supposed to be a dynasty in the making.

But...Jagr...he killed us every year and took the title from Lemieux when Mario retired. Then we got him....I hope Halak turns out differently

 

[RandyHolt]

I eat off of a flat circle

 

[RandyHolt]

I think the trend of teams doing well is more that their GMs have a very good vision and sometimes make huge trades to fit that vision.....

I think a GM has to recognize that a roster is going stale, and balance moving select players out to address it, or the coach.

He clearly axed Bruce only after minor tweaks to our roster, moving an injured Clark, and then Flash.

We as fans are in a tough spot to grade our players. I threw out the speculation about Nick. Maybe if we got Bengt as a coach instead, that Nick is in the running for MVP. Finally, a coach that understands me.

The roster has largely gone stale, but George's preference for noob coaches makes it tougher to pin point where the true problem lies. Green may be an all star reborn under Bruce Jr. Ovi, the same.

Fans out of frustration eventually are willing to discuss any possible trade scenario. I suspect a good GM doesn't let it get to that point, by refreshing the roster in somewhat frequent retools of core.

I am curious to see which teams/GMs won by staying the course with their core, Detroit aside.

 

[BobRouse]

RH,

Chicago is a clear example.

But in the past teams like Colorado and NJ, who won multiple cups, did it with the backbone of their team largely drafted.

Yes Colorado got Roy. But the trade that made them really they were forced into since Lindros wouldn't play for Quebec,

NJ didn't actively trade for Scott Stevens. They got him b/c the NHL essentially backlashed against Caron. However guys like Broudeur, Niedermeyer, Daneyko, Elias, Madden etc were all drafted.

I don't know if there is enough of a sample size post lockout(s) tho.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I am curious to see which teams/GMs won by staying the course with their core, Detroit aside.

Detroit added a #1 dman via free agency. Rafalski is a bigger add than any we've made since Ovechkin. The year they won they also added Stuart who is a top 4 dman. The year before they won they rolled the dice on Hossa.

Chicago is probably the closest but they gambled on some big UFAs like Huet and Campbell. They also shed key parts like Byufuglasdlkgjaldkgj and Versteeg.

No one has stayed the course except for Washington.

 

[BobRouse]

Detroit added a #1 dman via free agency. Rafalski is a bigger add than any we've made since Ovechkin. The year they won they also added Stuart who is a top 4 dman. The year before they won they rolled the dice on Hossa.

Chicago is probably the closest but they gambled on some big UFAs like Huet and Campbell. They also shed key parts like Byufuglasdlkgjaldkgj and Versteeg.

No one has stayed the course except for Washington.

Detroit was a heavyweight before Rafalski. Anytime you have a top 3 defenseman in NHL history on your roster you are looking good. And that guy was drafted.

Chicago was FORCED to trade Buff, Versteeg and Ladd weren't they? Didn't that debacle cost Tallon his job? Huet and Campbell if anything impeded their progress towards winning a cup and they won inspite of them one can say (Huet for suckitude and Campbell for horrible contract)

But the point stands that McPhee's downfall has been that he has never replaced Tinordi and if anything made things worse by Witt departing. The last vestiges of physical dmen dissappeared under his watch and he was (and is?) egotistical to the point where he doesn't believe he needs them.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

RH,

Chicago is a clear example.

But in the past teams like Colorado and NJ, who won multiple cups, did it with the backbone of their team largely drafted.

Yes Colorado got Roy. But the trade that made them really they were forced into since Lindros wouldn't play for Quebec,

NJ didn't actively trade for Scott Stevens. They got him b/c the NHL essentially backlashed against Caron. However guys like Broudeur, Niedermeyer, Daneyko, Elias, Madden etc were all drafted.

I don't know if there is enough of a sample size post lockout(s) tho.

Yeah. Colorado never made a big move like trading away Owen Nolan or acquiring 2 hall of fame defensemen.

Ditto NJ. They never traded for hall of famers like Mogilny and Langenbrunner.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Detroit was a heavyweight before Rafalski. Anytime you have a top 3 defenseman in NHL history on your roster you are looking good. And that guy was drafted.

Chicago was FORCED to trade Buff, Versteeg and Ladd weren't they? Didn't that debacle cost Tallon his job? Huet and Campbell if anything impeded their progress towards winning a cup and they won inspite of them one can say (Huet for suckitude and Campbell for horrible contract)

But the point stands that McPhee's downfall has been that he has never replaced Tinordi and if anything made things worse by Witt departing. The last vestiges of physical dmen dissappeared under his watch and he was (and is?) egotistical to the point where he doesn't believe he needs them.

So did they make those moves or didn't they?

I'd love to have some UFAs screw us into two cups.

 

[BobRouse]

Side note:

I watched the LA vs Philly game last night on Comcast.

Mike Richards was their 4th line center. He only has 10 goals this year and apparently struggling some with inconsistent play.

His cap hit is a bit staggering at 5.75 mil per thru 2020 but over the 6 years he is actually getting paid $29 million.

I have to believe he still has gas in the tank as he's not yet 30. Haven't seen much of him since he left Philly tho.

Most likely he can be had for cheap as the Kings would have to make a summer decision on him as to whether to buy him out or not.

Thats a big cap hit and commitment but I'd investigate a trade possibility involving a guy like Brooks Laich.

 

[Marshall]

Added that.

And now we have him.

Time is a flat circle.

OT - the second season cannot come fast enough.

 

[strungout]

OT - the second season cannot come fast enough.

I know right. TV is very...ghetto...right now.

"It's all one ghetto, man. A giant gutter in outer space."

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Semin better than Brouwer.

Miss playoffs that year without Semin and not beat Bruins.

Missing playoffs bad for long term confidence and establishing winning culture.

Fire bad...bread good.

Just saying that Semin was necessary that year and the Brouwer is not on his level.

As the skill from our top 9 has eroded so has our record and possession stats.

Maybe b/c we got rid of guys like Flash, Fedorov and Semin it signalled the shift to more north south hockey (which in the Caps sense is dump and trap).

Kuznetsov and Burakovsky may shift that back b/c I sure as heck can't see any creative players thriving under this "system"

I don't see why you guys hang onto that lone Semin/Playoff crutch. If he was moved earlier, his replacement could have had the same success but we'll never know because we gave away a valuable/near elite talent for a few home playoff games and nothing more.

You guys like to say we would have missed the playoffs, I like to say a competent GM would have never let it get to that point.

 

[BobRouse]

I don't see why you guys hang onto that lone Semin/Playoff crutch. If he was moved earlier, his replacement could have had the same success but we'll never know because we gave away a valuable/near elite talent for a few home playoff games and nothing more.

You guys like to say we would have missed the playoffs, I like to say a competent GM would have never let it get to that point.

The specific move (or non-move) by GMGM was perfectly justified.

I can skewer him about a zillion other things (ex. Corvo instead of Seidenberg? REALLY?) but not that one. So in that sense I agree with you. His past has been littered by mistakes. For every good thing he's done (improved drafting) there seems to be bad even moreso.

But he's staying. You know it. I know it. We have to live with it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Maybe it's time to take your meds and another 2 month HFboards vacation Tinner.

 

[BobRouse]

Maybe it's time to take your meds and another 2 month HFboards vacation Tinner.

Not just yet. I have more venting to do and more masses to educate!!

Besides my Thorazine is on backorder...

 

[Ridley Simon]

We went through a slight slump in the 2010-11 year which suddenly saw us switch to the trap after the embarrassing loss in NY.

Just a few games into that streak we saw a philosophical shift with moving Flash out to bringing in Hannan. Flash was Bruce's guy so I have a hard time believing he liked that move.

I believe GMGM forced the shift on BB. The Montreal series started it because they listened to the talking heads about "not playing the right way"

GMGM, I suspect, has long been behind the scenes whispering into coaches ears about playing this junk hockey.

That's all hyperbole to fit your theory. Any proof?

BB himself has been quoted as saying that George was a very hands off GM, so working for Anaheim and their GM is a very different experience for him, as their GM is much more interactive and hands on. Not sure that coincides with your narrative.

And you keep bringing up Poile and his failures. If you do that from one side, you MUST admit that McPhee is a kindred spirit. He has some pluses, but can not win the brass ring. Poile was also forced to trade, a lot, by Polins tight purse strings. He wasn't doing those trades in a vacuum, Bob.

 

[BobRouse]

That's all hyperbole to fit your theory. Any proof?

BB himself has been quoted as saying that George was a very hands off GM, so working for Anaheim and their GM is a very different experience for him, as their GM is much more interactive and hands on. Not sure that coincides with your narrative.

And you keep bringing up Poile and his failures. If you do that from one side, you MUST admit that McPhee is a kindred spirit. He has some pluses, but can not win the brass ring. Poile was also forced to trade, a lot, by Polins tight purse strings. He wasn't doing those trades in a vacuum, Bob.

I have absolutely zero proof that this is happening. But McPhee has the beady eyes....

Poile is the exact opposite of McPhee. Aggressive on the trade front and suffering on the drafting front. Both have issues.

That said both have built tremendous teams and revived hockey in Washington (Poile with Langway and GMGM with Ovie and young guns). I give them credit for that.

I don't like trapping hockey and figure its easy to blame GMGM. We blame him for everything else so why not this?

 

[Ridley Simon]

The specific move (or non-move) by GMGM was perfectly justified.

I can skewer him about a zillion other things (ex. Corvo instead of Seidenberg? REALLY?) but not that one. So in that sense I agree with you. His past has been littered by mistakes. For every good thing he's done (improved drafting) there seems to be bad even moreso.

But he's staying. You know it. I know it. We have to live with it.

Not if they miss the playoffs. Which I must admit, they are very much in the race for. The next 2 games will be telling, but a lot of teams are backing up here (Toronto, Columbus, and even the Rags and Wings to some degree)

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not just yet. I have more venting to do and more masses to educate!!

Besides my Thorazine is on backorder...

 

[Ridley Simon]

I have absolutely zero proof that this is happening. But McPhee has the beady eyes....

Poile is the exact opposite of McPhee. Aggressive on the trade front and suffering on the drafting front. Both have issues.

That said both have built tremendous teams and revived hockey in Washington (Poile with Langway and GMGM with Ovie and young guns). I give them credit for that.

I don't like trapping hockey and figure its easy to blame GMGM. We blame him for everything else so why not this?

Poile is the exact same as McPhee in that he is a good GM (globally), who just couldn't get the brass ring after almost 2 decades of trying with Washington.

Caps need to get their 3rd "career GM" in my time as a Caps fan... before I die.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That's all hyperbole to fit your theory. Any proof?

BB himself has been quoted as saying that George was a very hands off GM, so working for Anaheim and their GM is a very different experience for him, as their GM is much more interactive and hands on. Not sure that coincides with your narrative.

And you keep bringing up Poile and his failures. If you do that from one side, you MUST admit that McPhee is a kindred spirit. He has some pluses, but can not win the brass ring. Poile was also forced to trade, a lot, by Polins tight purse strings. He wasn't doing those trades in a vacuum, Bob.

Hell, McPhee has been quoted recently saying he doesn't butt into coaching decisions unless asked.

 

[BobRouse]

Rids,

I'll believe a GMGM firing when I see it. I don't sense anything is imminent on that whether we make the playoffs or not.

CCF,

For all I know GMGM is a great Mind F'er.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I have absolutely zero proof that this is happening. But McPhee has the beady eyes....

Poile is the exact opposite of McPhee. Aggressive on the trade front and suffering on the drafting front. Both have issues.

That said both have built tremendous teams and revived hockey in Washington (Poile with Langway and GMGM with Ovie and young guns). I give them credit for that.

I don't like trapping hockey and figure its easy to blame GMGM. We blame him for everything else so why not this?

Ok. Can we safely remove this from your narrative then, Bob? GM picks the crappy coaches, and then allows them to make the crappy decisions (see; Cassidy, Bruce; Hanlon, Glen; Oates, Adam)