Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIX

[Mothra]

His offensive talent is still there and hasn't waned, stats and the eye test back that up to where his ability isn't a point of contention.

Holding back is a strong way to put something I didn't even imply, but now that you mention it I find it really impressive he's been able to produce the way he has without a proven NHLer on his pairing all year. All I'm saying is his play will improve with a partner who's willing to let him be the catalyst offensively, as opposed to a guy like Orlov.

you must be kidding.....

at his peak he was a PPG player.....stats alone make it a point of contention, the eye test confirms he is a shell of that player

 

[kmdoom]

I think you mean Andy Greene.

In the same way I meant Daley and not Goligoski, I meant Matt Greene. Adding another PMD doesn't fully compliment Green's skill set.

 

[Burakovsky95*]

In the same way I meant Daley and not Goligoski, I meant Matt Greene. Adding another PMD doesn't fully compliment Green's skill set.

Matt Greene has been horrendous this year

 

[kmdoom]

you must be kidding.....

at his peak he was a PPG player.....stats alone make it a point of contention, the eye test confirms he is a shell of that player

So you're saying leading all defenceman in goals last year and putting up 30 pts this year with a good chunk of the season left (and unbelievably bad luck with the crossbar early on) don't prove he's still an offensive force?

Watch the two goals he scored against Buffalo on the 28th and tell me he is just a shell of his 08 self. Not saying he'll return to that but ffs man wise up.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

In the same way I meant Daley and not Goligoski, I meant Matt Greene. Adding another PMD doesn't fully compliment Green's skill set.

Matt is the Kings 6th defenseman, and he's just a step up from Erskine. And he's a righty at that, and has missed more games than Mike the last two seasons.

Andy is the #1 defenseman on the team with the 4th lowest GAA in the league. He plays over 24 and a half minutes a night, including over 3 and a half a night on the top PK in the league. Oh, and he's a lefty.

If we want a Greene, it's Andy, not Matt.

 

[Mothra]

So you're saying leading all defenceman in goals last year and putting up 30 pts this year with a good chunk of the season left (and unbelievably bad luck with the crossbar early on) don't prove he's still an offensive force?

Watch the two goals he scored against Buffalo on the 28th and tell me he is just a shell of his 08 self. Not saying he'll return to that but ffs man wise up.

Yes....he is absolutely a shell of the player he was several years ago. He is made of glass, both physically and mentally.....

im not blown away by him having 1 or 2 more goals than several other players in a shortened season. Durability is a huge problem with this player....let him play a full season and see where he ranks. He isnt even top 20 this season in D scoring....he used to be the top player in terms of that, but you said that his play in that area "hasnt waned" and that "stats" back that up.....what stats? One lockout shortened season where he had 1 more goal than another player?

oh...thats right, he hit the crossbar a couple times and scored against the worst team in the NHL....what am I thinking. Clearly his play is still that of a Norris Finalist and 1st team all-star

 

[hb12xchamps]

I'm all in for trading Green if we can get a #1 or #2 pair guy back. We don't just move him for scraps or picks and prospects because that won't make us a contender.

 

[Mothra]

I'm all in for trading Green if we can get a #1 or #2 pair guy back. We don't just move him for scraps or picks and prospects because that won't make us a contender.

Im of the opinion that getting his 6 mil a year contract off the books and using that money on a better player will help. Thats too much money for a guy that misses so many games.

Missing hockey games is about the most consistent part of his game

 

[Hivemind]

I'm thinking someone with those same characteristics and a little more mobility than Phillips would be ideal. A defensive minded guy that can play on the second pairing and let Green do his thing offensively should be our target at the deadline. Players like Trevor Daley, Matt Greene, or in a perfect world Hjalmarsson/Oduya.

Daley is a LHD who plays better on the right side. Nor is he a particularly great defenseman. Would he be an upgrade over our 3LD candidates? Absolutely. Would he be an upgrade compared to Orlov? Meh.

what does that mean exactly?

Any player on the ive cant ignore his basic defensive responsibility.....in either case what is preventing from 52 "doing his thing" now? other than being injured, again, what is holding him back from doing his thing? What is "his thing"? He had a stretch where he was a dynamic player with the puck but thats been years now.....he seems to be made of glass, and even more fragile mentally. It sounds like you are saying the system or his partner are holding him back. To me a 6 mil a year payer should be able to do his thing, to some degree. I dont see adding a Oduya or the like turning 52 into a 1st team all-star again. Maybe im wrong

If you don't see how playing with Orlov and Schmidt has altered Green's game this year, I'm curious as to what team you've been watching. There's a reason it's always Green getting caught in the 2-on-1s, and not his partner. Because he's been taking fewer risks, been pinching less, and been trying to be more responsible to cover for the aggression of his partners. While Green should play with someone who can move the puck to relieve the pressure applied on Green, his partner should also be willing to let Green be the playmaker on the pairing. He's had to neuter much of what makes him special in the offensive zone to protect his partner.

In the same way I meant Daley and not Goligoski, I meant Matt Greene. Adding another PMD doesn't fully compliment Green's skill set.

Matt Greene is a younger John Erskine, and a RHD. He's ideally suited for a 3rd pairing, and tends to get over matched when left in higher roles for extended periods. Would I mind him as 3RD? Not necessarily, provided Erskine is ditched and they don't overspend. He'd be an utter disaster as Green's partner, though.

Calling Andy Greene a PMD is misleading. He plays against the other team's top forwards and has been a top notch shutdown D for a couple years in New Jersey. Given how much the other teams target Green now, he needs a partner capable of handling the puck capably to relieve pressure. It doesn't have to be a full-on PMD like Orlov, but someone who's good enough with the puck to make the other team pay for over extending their forecheck to pursue Green. An all-around guy like Hjalmarsson or Oduya, as you suggested earlier, makes a lot of sense. So does Andy Greene. It's not as if Oduya is renowned for his defensive zone coverage.

And, fwiw, if we got Andy Greene or Hjalmarsson, they would most likely be 1st pairing defensemen ahead of Alzner.

 

[Mothra]

If you don't see how playing with Orlov and Schmidt has altered Green's game this year, I'm curious as to what team you've been watching. There's a reason it's always Green getting caught in the 2-on-1s, and not his partner. Because he's been taking fewer risks, been pinching less, and been trying to be more responsible to cover for the aggression of his partners. While Green should play with someone who can move the puck to relieve the pressure applied on Green, his partner should also be willing to let Green be the playmaker on the pairing. He's had to neuter much of what makes him special in the offensive zone to protect his partner.

as always....52's poor play or lack of production is never really on him....the list is, his partners, his coach, the GM, fans boo, he wasnt picked for team canada in 2010....its reason after reason

its not always 52 that is defending 2-on-1's....its just that it stands out so much when he does because he is plays them poorly, of course that cant be his fault

I know I know....its also not his fault he is terrible in the corners and along the boards

He isnt a special player anymore....he is a one dimensional player who needs open ice to be at his best. Teams have figured this out for some time now and he hasnt been able to adjust. Until he adjusts and figures out how to play against that, this wont change...teams will continue to take the body and limit his open ice with the puck, which is his strength...skating with the puck in open ice. This is exactly why he has never been the player in the playoffs that he was in the regular season....everything is tight and thats not where his game excels, or at least used to excel

add to that he doesnt protect himself well...gets hurt...misses games or is ineffective when banged up.

Call me crazy but a 6 mil a year guy should be effective regardless who he plays with. Sure, most players should do better playing along side another good player.....but for 6 mil a year you should be able to pair him with just about anyone and still expect good play. The way you describe it youd think 52 was the rookie....and its not as if he has played every shift (when he actually plays) with 2 rookies

 

[Raikkonen]

Would like to start with my impressions after seeing medal round in person.

First about the defense.

Carlson seemed out of place, as I already said probably. Misfit or misused - can't say. Not much icetime, often on PK though. USA had exactly 2 defenders as I thought before the tournament. McD and Suter. They played each 2nd shift literally.

Bylsma didn't use John in offensive role until the game was over. But then he unleashed him but it was too late. Both times =) Carlson-Orpik and whoever else used was a bad pair. No chemistry. I hope it's a good learning experience for JC.

Fowler was okish, much TOI given. Faulk - nothing, Shattenkirk - invisible to me. So they played with Suter and McD and coudn't get any zone possessions other than Kane/Kessel's individual efforts or just dumping. Many "leaders" invisible and ineffective. Kane and Kessel were the best overall by 2 matches. 0 goals though.

Back to defense. I've tried to watch Edler a bit. He was playing 1st pair with Karlsson (instead of OEL). So this is a young offensive and mistake prone player (Green-like if you want). I did not see much problem with Edler. He was solid I think. I do believe he could be solid on small rinks also.

Then Finland. #nonamegoodqualitydefense. Maatta was very good. Hehe. Bad news guys =)

Then Canada. Their D dominated. JayBo was solid and visible, I think even better than AP27. Keith-Weber - no comments. And another pair. Doughty. And I don't even know who played with him. I didn't recognize that D. Absolutely invisible. Probably it was Vlasic. Very good D overall. Price was good also. The rest is history. They just dominated.

So these impressions got me thinking the common problem is coaching. JayBo was called useless and so on. Edler's got his "damaged goods / regressed" status recently also. On the other hand some Ds who are viewed as good didn't play like that obviously.

What else? Good news is Pens got Bylsma. They will lose eventually. Nothing was changed by Dan until the endmatch siren. Very good.

Bad news - we will lose earlier probably, because Oates doesn't seem to be good fit either.


PS: Had a little chat with Shero. Said Letang is better, Vokoun is maybe this season and he said something like he doesn't expect another D, they have enough depth on position. Said he would like a winger but in this market it's very hard to get one. I thought last thing should be interesting for you guys, GMGM should remember this words and reproduce them later =)

 

[Raikkonen]

Now to forwards.

Will not say much about OV. It's crapshoot now. Next month will show everything. I guess coaching was the main reason.

Lets get back to Backstrom and Mojo.

Obviously it was 1 game Backstrom for me in the semis. Looked good. Fast enough, calm and effective. Not much like this season's Caps version of NB. Overall Sweden controlled the game with Finns (IMHO) and was able to up their game a bit more to score fast 2 goals after Jokinen scored that strange goal in the 2nd. In the 3rd there was not doubt in my mind Finns are toast. And Backstrom was right there in the middle of things. Now I will not point my finger on Oates, you should got that already =)

MJ played with Landeskog and Silfverberg both games I think and did pretty well. Quality passing stood out. He is not the ****ing winger =) In the final he was last swedish playmaking center I think so their chances were slim from the beginning. Still MJ was active and visible. Managed to play even against best of the best (Canadians). Their line was generating some offense for sure.

And I can't say the same about the likes of Backes, Kesler, Stastny and some others (to some degree, even Toews and Getzlaf were not that impressive, Crosby was very good).

So MJ didn't look like he's playing over his head. He played like he belongs. I mean he's not Zetta or Henrik Sedin, I understand, but he played in Marts system and was OK in Olympics final. Guy can play. That's my main impression.

By the way, our friend Romao checked H.Sedin's stats from his first years. Both MJ and HS came to NHL 1 year after the draft.

1st 4 years HS: 318 games, 44 goals, 102 assists, 146 points, PPG = 0.46
1st 4 years MJ: 242 games, 40 goals, 91 assists, 131 point, PPG = 0,54

Sedin is 10 years older. Sounds like a good comparable?

The main thought about our swedish forwards after Sochi: don't trade them, fix the team/coaching/gm.

Also, I can't say anything about Erat. Didn't see matches with him at all.


PS: Backstrom's absence was shocking. Was disappointed like hell. Didn't knew anything until after the game. Even now I think it's hard to predict the mental state of both NB and OV.

 

[Raikkonen]

[PROPHET MODE ON]

I told you Russia will lose and there will be meltdown.

[PROPHET MODE OFF]

Now lets talk about Russia a bit. We know for sure now that we are lacking world-class coaches, do not have good coaching implemented in KHL (mostly), no good defense school and very few centerforwards. Even if FHR/Tretyak/etc could realize all these problems that will require many years to fix. Like 8-10 years.

Sad to see Datsyuk without deserved medal but we can easily see the same picture next 2 tournaments. Best young russians in Tarasenko and Nichushkin were none factors. And both are wingers. Anisimov isn't much young anymore and was not effective at all. There is no bright future even for russian offense. Defense is even worse. It's nothere near top-4. And will not be there in 4 years. You can't fix this mess fast enough even with Babcock I guess.

So in 8 years OV will be like 36? No shot at gold again? He better concentrate on Maria, kids and Stanley Cups.

So lets get back to Caps. Caps are nothere (nowhere?) near the Russian kind of fail. Caps don't need to build 1000 rinks and grow 10000 kids and teach 10 coaches.

One good manager should be able to fix the team at least to the ECF level quality. And it should be done in this next several years while OV is still young enough.

That's why you can view Miller trade as a step to build foundation (tm). I think it could have some wheels in the end. We do know that our goalies aren't TOO BAD. But that's not enough.

Miller should be capable to play 2-4 seasons more on a good level. So is OV. One could go for it and never look behind. There is nothing good there. So I would seriously consider it at least.

The cap goes up. Miller's contract is not the biggest problem. But if he will provide us with good goaltending - it's a good start. It's a foundation =) Also he should be tradeable.

Behind Miller we have Grubauer. He could be 2nd Kolzig in the making. He's German and that's always good for the athlete. Work ethic and stable mentality. Germans are good in team sports.

In other words... if you have to pick whose career to save - Ovi's or Holtby's - I think the answer is obvious. If you think Holtby will be better than Miller... you do not do it.

Also there is no guarantee that new set of eyes will do a better work of evaluating Holtby. So I would risk with Miller as much more known master =)))

After goalie problem being sold you have a few quality assets to dangle: Carrick, Bowey, Burakovsky, Wilson maybe, Barber. Roster guys are well known. Those with big contracts and leaders letters. It should be fully possible to get 1-2 forwards (and we have Kuz already, I believe in him) and the last problem is a good set of PK forwards (could be cheap and 4th linish) and 1-2 more vet D.

With all assets, prospects, draft picks and cap space it is possible to fix the roster. Then you fix the coaching and there is a team at least.

Now it's a mess there OG Finals Quality centerman is playing in Tankus Johansson's power winger role.


PS: I liked our tank from the earlier.

 

[Raikkonen]

I think my words were not very clear in that part where I described Canada's offense.

They could not score because their wingers and centers who were in positions to shoot couldn't get it past goalies. But they generated enough shots, a good part of them shots from scoring positions. So I can't say wingers sucked just that they wasn't accurate in games I watched. In that sense offense were not very effective and defense was much better and did everything they needed.

I don't think there was an offense better than Canada's overall. Very good goalies for all top-4 teams, big rinks and not much opportunities to score. But Crosby and Co generated chances for sure.

In the end I think god D was part of the plan by Babcock.

PS: They should have took Neal.

 

[kmdoom]

Matt Greene is a younger John Erskine, and a RHD. He's ideally suited for a 3rd pairing, and tends to get over matched when left in higher roles for extended periods. Would I mind him as 3RD? Not necessarily, provided Erskine is ditched and they don't overspend. He'd be an utter disaster as Green's partner, though.

Calling Andy Greene a PMD is misleading. He plays against the other team's top forwards and has been a top notch shutdown D for a couple years in New Jersey. Given how much the other teams target Green now, he needs a partner capable of handling the puck capably to relieve pressure. It doesn't have to be a full-on PMD like Orlov, but someone who's good enough with the puck to make the other team pay for over extending their forecheck to pursue Green. An all-around guy like Hjalmarsson or Oduya, as you suggested earlier, makes a lot of sense. So does Andy Greene. It's not as if Oduya is renowned for his defensive zone coverage.

And, fwiw, if we got Andy Greene or Hjalmarsson, they would most likely be 1st pairing defensemen ahead of Alzner.

Ok thanks for the insight on Andy. Between him and Hjalmarsson he might be a better target, considering we'd have to give up a major asset to land Hjalmarsson from Chicago. NJ would love a first rounder from us for sure.

 

[MW6]

@MikeHumeESPN: #Caps GMGM to @CraigCustance: If you’ve got chance to do something, you’re all in and you get what you need. What you pay is secondary.

 

[HunterSThompson]

@MikeHumeESPN: #Caps GMGM to @CraigCustance: If you’ve got chance to do something, you’re all in and you get what you need. What you pay is secondary.

That smells, but could also be out of context. An ESPN Insider will have to read the whole story.

 

[MW6]

That smells, but could also be out of context. An ESPN Insider will have to read the whole story.

True! I hope someone can copy-paste it to all of us in here?

 

[NoMoreChoking]

I can't wait to see everyone rage when we get miller

 

[RandyHolt]

Miller yep it would be a colossal screw up by George. His noob coaches in half of one season make him bail on his attempts to develop a G from within. Tanks their potential trade value (think Neuvy), and the kicker overpays for Miller to fix a problem.

A problem mind you, that just got fixed, by letting our goalies play their angles naturally. Can you imagine how maddening it was for our Gs to play angles Oates way, and goal after goal be scored on them?

But I will stick to my prediction, Miller with the gold medal becomes a cap. No gold, no miler.

 

[HunterSThompson]

I can't wait to see everyone rage when we get miller

For me it all depends on what would be given up, what else those things could have been used for, whether they sign him, and whether they move Neuvirth/Holtby/Grubauer for help elsewhere.

If you plan on signing Miller for five years, all three of those goalies become trade pieces. Maybe you hold on to Grubauer.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Here's the context of the quote:

If he believes his team is capable of making a run, history shows he’ll do his part to boost their efforts.

“If you’ve got a chance to do something, you’re all in and you get what you need. What you pay for it is secondary. You get what you need,†McPhee said. “We had some real good clubs here for a number of years. And we paid a lot over the years to add to the club at the deadline. You owe that to your team and your fanbase.â€

Hopefully, he's just talking about what he's done historically.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Here's the context of the quote:

Hopefully, he's just talking about what he's done historically.

On the other hand, history has shown that he either has no idea when he's close or he's willing to make a panic move. Whichever you'd like to believe. And neither is reassuring.

 

[RandyHolt]

Sounds like is eradicating err Eratting again, targeting one player and is willing to overpay.

Speaking of Erat, he is on a hot streak. Non Empty Net Selfies included... or something like that.

 

[marcel snapshot]

I'm thinking someone with those same characteristics and a little more mobility than Phillips would be ideal. A defensive minded guy that can play on the second pairing and let Green do his thing offensively should be our target at the deadline. Players like Trevor Daley, Matt Greene, or in a perfect world Hjalmarsson/Oduya.

Matt Greene is the guy we should be targeting - unless he's physically compromised. Kings need scoring, and Greene seems to be somewhat redundant there. Wonder if Lombardi would bite on one of our wingers that is supposed to score goals but can't put the puck in the net - unfortunately, Lombardi is sort of smart. If only Paul Holmgren were GM of the Kings.

But a Green-Greene pairing would be pretty good - and it would send Joe B. into stuttering paroxsyms of "no relation".