Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap Part XL

[Capitlols]

I've never been terribly impressed with Keith and I still think that Seabrook is the best dman on that team. Keith is basically Wideman to me.

That's pretty ridiculous.

I love the way Orpik has played in here but let's not kid ourselves. He simply doesn't belong in that group overally. And in what world has Carlson not proven to be able to carry a pairing and Seabrook has? The guy has played with Duncan Keith for most of his career and right now Hjalmarsson is better than him despite playing with Oduya rather than Keith.

I'd take Carlson over most of those guys, especially if we are still discussing this season. Pietrangelo lives off of some reputation that big, well-skating D's are elite #1D's. Even when he was at his best he was never considered elite shutdown D, but rather offensive guy with great size. Chara has declined alot since his glory days and he's no longer even on the top-15 (in my opinion). I don't think i even need to argue over Seabrook, he's not even the 2nd best D on the 'hawks. That leaves just about the number of guys i've mentioned, and you could cut Suter too for this season. His ES GA/60 is pretty terrible 2.74 (Carlson 2.22) and that while facing easier competition and providing far less offense.

Not saying Orpik does, just saying it's not that Carlson has had crap partners during his time. There were often times that Seabrook was the better partner and vice versa, hard to say since they've had limited time apart. During the Carlzner days, Carlson was pretty atrocious away from Alzner.

I wouldn't, I just don't value Carlson nearly as high as others. If you value strictly this year, then I could see a case, but no way I'd put Carlson ahead of a guy like Suter.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Not saying Orpik does, just saying it's not that Carlson has had crap partners during his time. There were often times that Seabrook was the better partner and vice versa, hard to say since they've had limited time apart. During the Carlzner days, Carlson was pretty atrocious away from Alzner.

I wouldn't, I just don't value Carlson nearly as high as others. If you value strictly this year, then I could see a case, but no way I'd put Carlson ahead of a guy like Suter.

Carlson is well on his way to Norris consideration if he continues this path of development. We thought Trotz could do good things for Green but he's done wonders for Carlson.

Also, Shattenkirk has been better than Pietrangelo this year.

 

[BobRouse]

Man with each game it sure looks more and more like Trotz wants a 1RW.

Personally I liked both Bura and Wilson there but Trotz clearly isn't convinced. Now MJ is there. I'm pretty confident I know how thats going to work out...

8 different guys there? sheesh

Seems like he wants a 1RW far more than a 2C which Kuz has been entrenched.

Could use an upgrade over Hillen as well truth be told.

So back to pondering...I think Rids made a case for Jagr and now I'm leaning towards that again. Trotz is not trusting the young guys and Beagle there is pretty awful.

Going to have to brainstorm more RWs on expiring contracts who maybe available.

 

[Carlzner]

Carlson has been getting Norris chatter this season.

If you don't think he's a #1D... you're wrong.

 

[Zoidberg Jesus]

Shame they can't just give him a back-diving contract and take the cap recapture risk.

After seeing what a slap on the wrist those teams got with just the possibility of a recapture penalty (which can be totally avoided by just sticking those guys on LTIR when they want to retire), I really wish McPhee had made some of those contracts. I can't believe they're just letting the teams that did those continue to get away with it.

For instance, the ******** years on the end of the Hossa and Keith contracts save the Hawks 3.5M per year against the cap. That's a huge advantage! Coincidentally, the first summer after those two contracts were signed was when they matched the Sharks' 3.5M/year offer sheet on Hjalmarsson. Without the cap circumvention they would've lost him, and he's been a huge part of their team since then, especially during the 2013 Cup run when he was playing 23+ minutes a night. I've never understood why that wasn't a bigger story, and why no one complains about how they and others continue to reap the benefits of those back-diving contract.

Imagine what the Caps could've done if they'd had an extra 3.5M in cap room over the last four seasons. I wonder how Semin would've looked playing with Ribeiro and Brouwer.

 

[BobRouse]

After seeing what a slap on the wrist those teams got with just the possibility of a recapture penalty (which can be totally avoided by just sticking those guys on LTIR when they want to retire), I really wish McPhee had made some of those contracts. I can't believe they're just letting the teams that did those continue to get away with it.

For instance, the ******** years on the end of the Hossa and Keith contracts save the Hawks 3.5M per year against the cap. That's a huge advantage! Coincidentally, the first summer after those two contracts were signed was when they matched the Sharks' 3.5M/year offer sheet on Hjalmarsson. Without the cap circumvention they would've lost him, and he's been a huge part of their team since then, especially during the 2013 Cup run when he was playing 23+ minutes a night. I've never understood why that wasn't a bigger story, and why no one complains about how they and others continue to reap the benefits of those back-diving contract.

Imagine what the Caps could've done if they'd had an extra 3.5M in cap room over the last four seasons. I wonder how Semin would've looked playing with Ribeiro and Brouwer.

Equallly unfair were those 2 compliance buyouts that allowed teams like Philly to slide out of terrible contracts and not be penalized for them.

GMGM said as much and he was right. The Caps and smart teams got penalized since their competition (Rangers with Richards, Tampa with Lecavalier etc) gained a competitive advantage.

 

[Raikkonen]

Hehe, logical move by Trotz to see if Mojo can do smth there. I told you he will try!

Maybe he can be OK. Then Bura-Kuz-Bro line is the real 3rd.


PS: Caps cant get Jagr. No space. Trading Green to get Jagr - sounds stupid IMHO.

 

[Mothra]

they don't need 52 on the pp per say. Carlson's minutes jump to 27/28 without him. What they are going to miss is that even strength offense that starts on his stick. look at his even strength points per game.

we get whining and complaining about the non-ov esg right now when it seems like every other non ov esg has a 52 assist on it.

trotz benched hillen for a lot of the 3rd period. when 52 is gone he is benching both 3rd pair players.
but....that said, what bmac maclellan said at all star time had everyone thinking green was not being traded. bmac bobby mac didn't say anything to indicate anything is happening in that venue.

I think a lot of you have had your hopes raised and are going to be disappointed.

My hope aren't raised and I wont be disappointed at all, either way

As for ice-time...the point I have made is if a serviceable dman can be brought in to replace 52 on the 3rd line and can take a PK shift Carlson's ice-time shouldn't need to jump drastically. Getting top PP minutes at the expense of top PK minutes should favor the PP time as its generally less taxing as well

Im speaking more long term here, to be clear. Doubt they can turn 52+ into a responsible D who can PK and a forward for the top 6 by the TDL

What they need, and im not a fan of trading 90, is a Gartner\Murphy for Rouse\Dino sort of move....

 

[txpd]

you would have to find a defenseman that was better than Carlson on the pk in order to replace him. He is on the 1pk. Green takes a pk shift every time one of the four pk d takes a penalty. he has been on the ice for just 1 ppga all season. Green is not on the regular pk because he cant. He is because that is the way trotz splits up the minutes.

 

[Mothra]

recapping quickly. Green is currently 13th in the NHL in esp among the d. He is 1pt from 8th. This done in on average 7 fewer games. He is 5th on the Capitals overall in esp.
What about that says pp specialist?

I believe that I also saw where Green who is on the pk whenever a pk d is in the box has been on the ice for 1 ppga so far this season. If true his pk has been just fine as well.

youre missing the point....on this that is essentially what he is. If at all possible he doesn't get the tough minutes and he is put on the top PP unit. This is good coaching (and team mgmt.) and the player has responded by producing. None of that changes his role on the team...he may be getting more icetime than the typical 3rd pair guy but in order of depth he is well down the line

I believe any real evaluation of 52 comes at the end of the season...how he holds up and how much of a factor he is down the stretch and when it really matters. This is a player whose best hockey is generally around this time of the season. We've seen this before....you personally have reminded us how great he was in the shortened season, when in reality he had one hot month.

 

[Mothra]

19pts in 20 games. not overpaid.

he earned last months paycheck....do you want to go back and play this game?

 

[Mothra]

Kuznetsov got 1 goal in last 3 games, that's almost 30 goal pace, right?


EDIT: I will clarify, so you dont have to argue.

There is John Carlson who's our #1D. He got more points than Green with the toughest assignments and little PP.

He's got almost 4M caphit (2M less than Green) and missed exactly 0 (zero) games in his career. He's very young too and still progressing. Also with his durability he's got big size unlike Green.

Here is what confuses me in all of this....

I felt like I was on an island last year in my support of Carlson on the top PP. To this day some people still act like this was a bad decision and some sort of injustice to 52

I viewed this as another homegrown top prospect, who had steadily progressed, getting a shot at well earned additional responsibility. The PP thrived. How this was viewed otherwise is totally beyond me and again people act like it was wrong. Since that time Carlson has improved and in a couple years is going to be one hell of a player

 

[Mothra]

Speaking with Mike Vogel last month, Capitals GM Brian MacLellan rejected the idea of trading an impending UFA like Green unless it made the team better now. “What message does that send to the team if you’re sending Mike Green away for a prospect and a pick heading into the playoffs?†MacLellan continued, “I’m not going to do that. I want to win. He’s a part of our team. It’s a luxury to have him as a fifth defenseman who can move up and who is a first power play guy.â€

BMac has stated over and over and over again that he isn't trading Green.

well I read that as he wouldn't trade him for futures....but I agree I dont think they trade him if they are in the mix. I also don't expect him to be here next season...taking our personal opinions of the player out of it, I just don't see how they can

 

[Mothra]

Kuz is driving play on that line in a real way, not just an analytics shot-heavy way.

His linemates can't keep up with him, can't get open, and can't finish. If he had wingers who would shoot and could score he'd have a lot of points and maybe more goals because he wouldn't need to skate through 3 defenders all the time. It's reminiscent of rebuild-era Ovechkin, but without the avalanche of shots.

The boxcar stats for Kuz do not tell the story. If he had PP1 time in Mojo or Brouwer's slot all year he'd have their points and then some.

We can't talk about how Green needs the right partner and ignore who Kuz has been playing with.

He certainly is...totally agree

 

[Mothra]

He's not elite. He's not someone that'll shutdown opposing top lines on a consistent basis, especially not in the playoffs.

Still young and developing, but he's not there yet. Point being though, it's hard for me to see so much $ tied up to the defense if we still won't have a bonafide #1D.

Did you watch the Boston series?

 

[EroCaps]

Not trading Green would be another ****** asset management situation.

If they weren't going to re-sign him they should have traded him in the offseason. Or any of the last three years.

They're going to lose half of their Young Guns for nothing. That's what losers do.

 

[Capitlols]

Did you watch the Boston series?

Yup, also watched the Tampa series.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Yup, also watched the Tampa series.

The series he played as a 21 year old with 109 games of experience?

 

[Capitlols]

The series he played as a 21 year old with 109 games of experience?

How about the most recent Rangers series. Even in the Boston series, it had a lot more to do with 50+ save Holtby than anything.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

**** it. Keep Green. Backstrom and Ovie may never hit this level again. Orpik could be smoked in a year or two. Just go for it.

 

[EroCaps]

**** it. Keep Green. Backstrom and Ovie may never hit this level again. Orpik could be smoked in a year or two. Just go for it.

They said the same thing with Semin, who is not a Cup type player, and then let him walk.

I really hope this isn't the mentality.

 

[Mothra]

you would have to find a defenseman that was better than Carlson on the pk in order to replace him. He is on the 1pk. Green takes a pk shift every time one of the four pk d takes a penalty. he has been on the ice for just 1 ppga all season. Green is not on the regular pk because he cant. He is because that is the way trotz splits up the minutes.

I don't think Carlson is irreplaceable on the PK

Ive seen enough 52 to know he isn't a regular PKer...of course he takes a shift when all the regulars are in the box or otherwise unable

 

[txpd]

he was on the pk again tonight. no ppga. another assist. 20pts in 21 games. onward

 

[Langway]

The problem isn't losing half of the Young Guns potentially for nothing. It would be not replacing them with similar impact ability or restructuring well enough. That doesn't have to happen by trading them. That impact has had to come from within and that takes time (and development).

If their best lineup possible features Green then keep Green absent an offer that significantly enhances their chances beyond this season. It seems pretty simple to me. A second rounder and a B- prospect and cap space doesn't do a whole lot for me unless they've got something else up their sleeve.

 

[Bananas]

Two options:

You either trade Green now while his value is sky high or you bolster the team significantly for a cup run.

Pretty simple.

Quite frankly I'm leaning pretty strongly towards option B.