Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXVII

[Langway]

not really. he is the only caps defenseman that will punch you in the mouth.

Other than a boarding minor and a puck in the stands, they were all obstruction penalties.

 

[twabby]

Other than a boarding minor and a puck in the stands, they were all obstruction penalties.

Gritty, hard-nosed obstruction penalties that will make opponents scared of him.

Just think how scared Crosby will be when he gets hooked, held, and tripped after forcing an Orpik turnover.

 

[Blades of Steel]

Gritty, hard-nosed obstruction penalties that will make opponents scared of him.

Just think how scared Crosby will be when he gets hooked, held, and tripped after forcing an Orpik turnover.

I think you're in the minority here if you don't like Orpik.

 

[Siludin]

Any word on when Orpik is due back?

 

[Dr John Carlson]

I think you're in the minority here if you don't like Orpik.

I'm not sure I disagree with him. Orpik is pretty slow and this leads to a lot of penalties that a faster guy like Schmidt might not take. I'd have Orpik on a pretty short leash when he gets back (especially if he gets back close to the playoffs starting), having him at the form he showed early on in the season would be a pretty big liability at 19+ min. per night against a fast team.

People love to pile on Dan Girardi, but Orpik early on in this season was basically playing Girardi-esque hockey. Being able to get out of position to make a big hit and punch guys in the face shouldn't make up for a lack of mobility/undisciplined play.

 

[twabby]

I think you're in the minority here if you don't like Orpik.

I know I'm in the minority but I stand by my opinion of him. He's not very good and he doesn't fit the identity that a cup-winning defense has, namely the ability to move the puck up ice and sustain an attack. Having Orpik on the ice is basically an invitation for the other team to open a shooting gallery against Holtby. I think the ability to hit people and clear the crease is not nearly as important as the ability to possess the puck, which is something Orlov, Schmidt, and Chorney are far better at.

I think if Orpik is in the lineup he needs to be protected with soft zone starts and quality of competition rather than put back onto the top pairing. That ship has sailed.

 

[Blades of Steel]

I'm not sure I disagree with him. Orpik is pretty slow and this leads to a lot of penalties that a faster guy like Schmidt might not take. I'd have Orpik on a pretty short leash when he gets back (especially if he gets back close to the playoffs starting), having him at the form he showed early on in the season would be a pretty big liability at 19+ min. per night against a fast team.

People love to pile on Dan Girardi, but Orpik early on in this season was basically playing Girardi-esque hockey. Being able to get out of position to make a big hit and punch guys in the face shouldn't make up for a lack of mobility/undisciplined play.

That may be true but over a 7 game series I have to give Orpik the edge in experience, in 14 playoff games he had 8 PIMs, he was a +5, and averaged 22:17 minutes a game.

Schmidt = no games / experience in playoffs. Also Schmidt played 13 min on average last season(39 games), he is now playing 22 minutes on average a game. We just don't know if he can handle it or not can he keep up all season? I'd like to think he can.

Besides, I want both of them healthy and playing anyway. I think you just give Orpik the benefit of the doubt here.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I know I'm in the minority but I stand by my opinion of him. He's not very good and he doesn't fit the identity that a cup-winning defense has, namely the ability to move the puck up ice and sustain an attack. Having Orpik on the ice is basically an invitation for the other team to open a shooting gallery against Holtby. I think the ability to hit people and clear the crease is not nearly as important as the ability to possess the puck, which is something Orlov, Schmidt, and Chorney are far better at.

I think if Orpik is in the lineup he needs to be protected with soft zone starts and quality of competition rather than put back onto the top pairing. That ship has sailed.

Yet he has logged big minutes in the playoffs during his career and has a SC ring. We get that you don't like Orpik. You're starting to sound like that one poster on here that only logs on to post things negative about Mike Green.

 

[artilector]

IMO it's nice to have Orpik for this playoff run, assuming he can come back healthy. Hard to project early-season struggles to playoffs, especially since him and Carlson did fine last year. Schmidt and Orlov need a playoff run in "padawan" mode -- and I'm sure for coaches it's more comfortable this way before they trust them to carry the big load at crunch time.

Going forward, I think Schmidt will eclipse Orpik in overall usefulness pretty soon (maybe already, but it's not playoff-proven yet). He doesn't even really need to exceed, just be close in overall effectiveness, which I think we'll witness in these playoffs. And then the issue with Orpik will be basically the same as it was with Green -- a guy making top-pair money and not really needed in the top-4 any more, with associated big risks going forward.

But, this year, a healthy Orpik is certainly nice to have. Would prefer Schmidt to surpass Orpik in the depth chart naturally, during the playoffs, than having to carry that load from the start.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Trotz can claim he's not resting Orpik and Carlson if he wants but the simple fact they've said if this were the playoffs they'd be playing...doesn't that contradict that completely?

If you have such a massive lead you can rest your top pairing guys and keep on winning cause you're THAT good. You'd be a fool not to. Come playoff time they're going to have a whole lot less miles on them for those top line matchups. I think what they're doing is very clever...even if they're trying to trick us into thinking they're not being clever at all.

Nobody takes a beating throughout the year like your top pairing defenders do.

 

[Corby78]

We could play .500 hockey from here on out and still be hard to catch in the Metro. The worst thing that could happen, would be to bring guys like Oprik/Carlson/Beagle back too soon and have them get re-injured or struggle with lingering effects through the playoffs. I don't want to see any of them till they are 100%

 

[txpd]

Trotz can claim he's not resting Orpik and Carlson if he wants but the simple fact they've said if this were the playoffs they'd be playing...doesn't that contradict that completely?.

when was the last time Trotz said that if it were playoffs that Orpik would be playing? I think he only said that early on and well before he stopped skating. He has not been skating for a while.

He has never said that about Carlson to my knowledge.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I'm not sure I disagree with him. Orpik is pretty slow and this leads to a lot of penalties that a faster guy like Schmidt might not take. I'd have Orpik on a pretty short leash when he gets back (especially if he gets back close to the playoffs starting), having him at the form he showed early on in the season would be a pretty big liability at 19+ min. per night against a fast team.

People love to pile on Dan Girardi, but Orpik early on in this season was basically playing Girardi-esque hockey. Being able to get out of position to make a big hit and punch guys in the face shouldn't make up for a lack of mobility/undisciplined play.

Orpik missed the preseason and training camp with injuries. What's Girardi's excuse?

 

[twabby]

Yet he has logged big minutes in the playoffs during his career and has a SC ring. We get that you don't like Orpik. You're starting to sound like that one poster on here that only logs on to post things negative about Mike Green.

I don't mean to just rag on Orpik because by all accounts he is a good guy and is well-liked in the organization and by the players. I think he is overpaid, but it's not his fault for accepting that contract so good for him that he is making that money to secure his family's future and well-being. Orpik would be an excellent third pairing D and adequate second pairing D on almost any other team, but this Capitals team is really good and really deep and he should have to earn his spot like everyone else and not rely solely on his past achievements.

I just think that in this point in time, Chorney, Orlov, and Schmidt have shown that they belong in the playoff lineup based on merit and their on-ice contributions. Playoff experience is nice and certainly should be a factor in choosing who should be in the lineup, but it's only one factor. I do think that if Orpik gets healthy in time to play in the regular season then he should get some playing time to see where he's at compared to the other guys. Let's be honest, unless the Caps melt down they are almost surely going to win the East and will likely win the Presidents Trophy, so there's no harm giving Orpik some time to see what he's got.

I just hope that Orpik isn't guaranteed a spot when he's healthy because I want the best 6 defensemen to play in the playoffs. I hope Trotz and company critically analyze who should be in the lineup and not just say "well we're paying Orpik a lot of money so he has to be in." The Capitals are #1 in so many categories right now in part because of the contributions of Orlov, Schmidt, and Chorney so how can you just remove one of those guys from the lineup without a very thorough, critical analysis?

 

[Hivemind]

Orpik missed the preseason and training camp with injuries. What's Girardi's excuse?

Training camp lasts 20 days. Brooks Orpik had been in the active line-up for a full month before he went down to injury again. Wouldn't you expect he was at least somewhat close to full speed by then? That excuse is pretty tired.

The best case scenario is that he had a nagging injury that bogged him down. If that's the case, I'm not holding my breath for a 100% recovered Brooks Orpik this season. When's the last time a Capital came back from a nagging injury and excelled that season? Hell, nagging groin injuries have completely ruined the other Brooks on this team. They kept Varlamov from ever seizing the #1 job in Washington. Nagging injuries put Poti out to pasture. Best case scenario is Eric Fehr, and he had to reinvent himself as a checking center (a rare Adam Oates success story). Maybe it's the ice. Maybe it's the trainers. Maybe it's just the reality of hockey. If persistent injury concerns is what caused Orpik to suck at the beginning of the year, I'm not convinced we'll see effective Orpik again this season. Especially at age 35.

If it wasn't injury, then we're just looking at straight-up decline. That's even more troubling, especially considered what Orpik played like in his final years in Pittsburgh.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

He missed offseason conditioning too, or so it was reported. That's a lot more than 20 days of TC and has more of an affect than you're alluding to.

 

[Roughing]

 

[Hivemind]

He missed offseason conditioning too, or so it was reported. That's a lot more than 20 days of TC and has more of an affect than you're alluding to.

If you're holding the opinion that it takes more than a month for Orpik to get back into effective game shape, I should remind you that there's only 2.5 months left in the season and he hasn't even started skating again yet.

And I don't know about you, but I'm not particularly inclined to let Orpik work his way back into game shape in the playoffs.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Training camp lasts 20 days. Brooks Orpik had been in the active line-up for a full month before he went down to injury again. Wouldn't you expect he was at least somewhat close to full speed by then? That excuse is pretty tired.

The best case scenario is that he had a nagging injury that bogged him down. If that's the case, I'm not holding my breath for a 100% recovered Brooks Orpik this season. When's the last time a Capital came back from a nagging injury and excelled that season? Hell, nagging groin injuries have completely ruined the other Brooks on this team. They kept Varlamov from ever seizing the #1 job in Washington. Nagging injuries put Poti out to pasture. Best case scenario is Eric Fehr, and he had to reinvent himself as a checking center (a rare Adam Oates success story). Maybe it's the ice. Maybe it's the trainers. Maybe it's just the reality of hockey. If persistent injury concerns is what caused Orpik to suck at the beginning of the year, I'm not convinced we'll see effective Orpik again this season. Especially at age 35.

If it wasn't injury, then we're just looking at straight-up decline. That's even more troubling, especially considered what Orpik played like in his final years in Pittsburgh.

You sound like someone who had never had a major sports injury.

Yes it takes a long time to come back from things sometimes. And just being healthy enough to get out there in the lineup isn't 100%. Takes time. So no I don't think he was close to "full speed".

 

[g00n]

If you're holding the opinion that it takes more than a month for Orpik to get back into effective game shape, I should remind you that there's only 2.5 months left in the season and he hasn't even started skating again yet.

And I don't know about you, but I'm not particularly inclined to let Orpik work his way back into game shape in the playoffs.

Brooks Orpik isn't Eddie Lacy. He's not sitting around eating Ho-Hos.

If a top athlete who takes great care of himself struggles and looks "off" for an entire month, he's probably not out of shape, he's probably still hurt. In which case rest and recovery is the best option along with whatever crosstraining is possible along the way. Getting up to game speed then becomes more of the issue, and a veteran can do that pretty quickly when healthy. Look at Richards.

That said they're probably still looking for depth at defense, whether from below or abroad.

 

[txpd]

Brooks Orpik isn't Eddie Lacy. He's not sitting around eating Ho-Hos.

Or drinking real Coke

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

More controversial opinion:

Orpik can get back in game shape in the next 2.5 months

vs.

Chorney > Orpik

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Brooks Orpik isn't Eddie Lacy. He's not sitting around eating Ho-Hos.

If a top athlete who takes great care of himself struggles and looks "off" for an entire month, he's probably not out of shape, he's probably still hurt. In which case rest and recovery is the best option along with whatever crosstraining is possible along the way. Getting up to game speed then becomes more of the issue, and a veteran can do that pretty quickly when healthy. Look at Richards.

That said they're probably still looking for depth at defense, whether from below or abroad.

They have to be looking at outside options. Skill-wise Schmidt can step in. It's the postseason physicality that worries me about relying on him in a top-4 role with Orpik out.

 

[Hivemind]

Brooks Orpik isn't Eddie Lacy. He's not sitting around eating Ho-Hos.

If a top athlete who takes great care of himself struggles and looks "off" for an entire month, he's probably not out of shape, he's probably still hurt. In which case rest and recovery is the best option along with whatever crosstraining is possible along the way. Getting up to game speed then becomes more of the issue, and a veteran can do that pretty quickly when healthy. Look at Richards.

That said they're probably still looking for depth at defense, whether from below or abroad.

Thus why I started with "if you're holding the opinion that it takes more than a month for Orpik [...]"
I don't hold that opinion. My previous post laid out the nagging injury risk.

The moral here is that nobody should be counting on Orpik to be in top form in the playoffs. If he rebounds, awesome. That would be a great addition. However, there's far too much uncertainty surrounding him, from injury risk and his poor start, to pencil him in as a top 4 defenseman during this post-season.

 

[hb12xchamps]

I don't mean to just rag on Orpik because by all accounts he is a good guy and is well-liked in the organization and by the players. I think he is overpaid, but it's not his fault for accepting that contract so good for him that he is making that money to secure his family's future and well-being. Orpik would be an excellent third pairing D and adequate second pairing D on almost any other team, but this Capitals team is really good and really deep and he should have to earn his spot like everyone else and not rely solely on his past achievements.

I just think that in this point in time, Chorney, Orlov, and Schmidt have shown that they belong in the playoff lineup based on merit and their on-ice contributions. Playoff experience is nice and certainly should be a factor in choosing who should be in the lineup, but it's only one factor. I do think that if Orpik gets healthy in time to play in the regular season then he should get some playing time to see where he's at compared to the other guys. Let's be honest, unless the Caps melt down they are almost surely going to win the East and will likely win the Presidents Trophy, so there's no harm giving Orpik some time to see what he's got.

I just hope that Orpik isn't guaranteed a spot when he's healthy because I want the best 6 defensemen to play in the playoffs. I hope Trotz and company critically analyze who should be in the lineup and not just say "well we're paying Orpik a lot of money so he has to be in." The Capitals are #1 in so many categories right now in part because of the contributions of Orlov, Schmidt, and Chorney so how can you just remove one of those guys from the lineup without a very thorough, critical analysis?

Ok fair enough. I don't see Trotz and co just gifting Orpik a spot in the lineup. Trotz commented this week about not rushing Carlson or Orpik (don't remember which one) and Carlson echoed those comments when he said it's easier being out when the team doesn't exactly need you unless you are healthy.

I still believe that Orpik is better suited to play in a playoff series when healthy (yes that's the biggest key to this) than Chorney/Schmidt/Orlov's combine 5 total playoff games. Those games were all played by Chorney last season due to Pittsburgh's injuries on D.