Player Discussion Aatu Raty

[innitfam]

Hindsight here, but I wish the Bleuger signing hadn't happened, so that there was a more defined spot for Raty on the roster. Good thing it's only a 1 year deal.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Skating looks better but I still don’t think it’s quite NHL calibre. Tomlinson made an interesting point last night - he stated that Raty’s skating was very loud which may be causing some ineffiency. He suggested that he needs to be a bit “lighter” on his skates, not sure specifically how one would do that but it seems a bit more promising than a completely dysfunctional stride / first step / skating mechanics.

 

[VanJack]

Hindsight here, but I wish the Bleuger signing hadn't happened, so that there was a more defined spot for Raty on the roster. Good thing it's only a 1 year deal.

Still a bit jarring to see Blueger wearing Bo Horvat's old No. 53.....but the best strategy for Raty is have him dominate at the AHL-level, with an occasional callup to Vancouver. After all, he's still only 20.

 

[LemonSauceD]

I agree with all of this. Still hard to believe he's only 20. And he's already played over 150 games in pro leagues between Liiga, AHL and NHL.

Unfortunately, a lot of young players that come out of the Liiga/SHL usually are developmentally flawed.

Not only is competition weaker in these league, they don’t necessarily produce young players that are polished fundamentally for the pro game. The biggest flaw is usually skating.

The first thing I notice when these players come over to NA is that their technical skating is usually their weakest area. I have a few theories on this. Large arenas means there’s more open space. A lot of these players are North-south skaters for that reason, electing to carry the puck in a straight line usually towards the perimeter to avoid contact, almost hugging their side of the boards. Laterally, they don’t use short C cuts/tight turns to maneuver through the middle of the ice, instead they glide through and use their skills and puck handling (which seem to be their strongest tools) to create plays. They have no sort of short game or advanced edge control that allows them to maneuver around the boards or corners. They simply don’t feel the need to. They’ve got a ton of space to simply straight line skate through these corners a whole second earlier than they would in a smaller arena.

Strength is also an issue which stems from poor skating habits. They prefer to teach these kids skill based drills rather than skating based drills like puck protection, forechecking, start/stop drills in the neutral zone. Perhaps they don’t do enough lower body training as well because it requires certain activation of calf muscles to be able to perform these evasive maneuvers. Striding, pivots, balance.

I could go on for another 3 pages. My point is, despite playing with pros, they play a much different pro game that IMO isn’t tailored for the NA game at all. There’s a severe discrepancy in terms of pace, processing ability, and skating. There’s also a severe lack of focus on developing younger players to become every day players for their respective clubs. Coaches will literally play these 18-22 year olds about 2-7 minutes a night, sometimes they’ll dress and not even play at all, yet it counts as 1 pro game.

When I determine their experience, I almost exclusively focus on their pro experience in NA.

 

[innitfam]

Still a bit jarring to see Blueger wearing Bo Horvat's old No. 53.....but the best strategy for Raty is have him dominate at the AHL-level, with an occasional callup to Vancouver. After all, he's still only 20.

True enough. The same argument could probably be made for Aman too. He'd probably be a bit less effective than Teddy but at half the cost. But it's not anything super problematic like a Jay Beagle signing.

 

[MarkMM]

Hindsight here, but I wish the Bleuger signing hadn't happened, so that there was a more defined spot for Raty on the roster. Good thing it's only a 1 year deal.

I think Raty will be better served in the long-term with more cooking in the AHL, so it's good that we got Blueger and Suter so that we don't rush Raty when he doesn't look ready right now. That's how you can ruin a prospect, which is what he is, and one we need to work out at a high level if we're going to become a contender on the promised timeline.

If Raty truly was ready then with our goals of making the playoffs they'd of course make room for him, Suter or Blueger can be moved to the wing as necessary so they're not blocking him.

 

[innitfam]

I think Raty will be better served in the long-term with more cooking in the AHL, so it's good that we got Blueger and Suter so that we don't rush Raty when he doesn't look ready right now. That's how you can ruin a prospect, which is what he is, and one we need to work out at a high level if we're going to become a contender on the promised timeline.

If Raty truly was ready then with our goals of making the playoffs they'd of course make room for him, Suter or Blueger can be moved to the wing as necessary so they're not blocking him.

For sure they can juggle forwards around if necessary, but does still seem like there's still 1 too many forwards. Next year does seem like a more reasonable timeframe for Raty, but I am optimistic on him. Overall my comment on the Blueger signing has a lot to do with the subsequent signing of Suter, who is a better player playing a similar role.

 

[F A N]

Skating looks better but I still don’t think it’s quite NHL calibre. Tomlinson made an interesting point last night - he stated that Raty’s skating was very loud which may be causing some ineffiency. He suggested that he needs to be a bit “lighter” on his skates, not sure specifically how one would do that but it seems a bit more promising than a completely dysfunctional stride / first step / skating mechanics.

Skating efficiency has been a noted problem for Raty. But it’s easy to forget that he’s from Klimovoch’s draft where many players from that draft hasn’t even turned pro yet.

 

[Vector]

this guy gonna make the squad?

Very unlikely. Will be one of the top call-ups, though.

 

[iceburg]

Unfortunately, a lot of young players that come out of the Liiga/SHL usually are developmentally flawed.

Not only is competition weaker in these league, they don’t necessarily produce young players that are polished fundamentally for the pro game. The biggest flaw is usually skating.

The first thing I notice when these players come over to NA is that their technical skating is usually their weakest area. I have a few theories on this. Large arenas means there’s more open space. A lot of these players are North-south skaters for that reason, electing to carry the puck in a straight line usually towards the perimeter to avoid contact, almost hugging their side of the boards. Laterally, they don’t use short C cuts/tight turns to maneuver through the middle of the ice, instead they glide through and use their skills and puck handling (which seem to be their strongest tools) to create plays. They have no sort of short game or advanced edge control that allows them to maneuver around the boards or corners. They simply don’t feel the need to. They’ve got a ton of space to simply straight line skate through these corners a whole second earlier than they would in a smaller arena.

Strength is also an issue which stems from poor skating habits. They prefer to teach these kids skill based drills rather than skating based drills like puck protection, forechecking, start/stop drills in the neutral zone. Perhaps they don’t do enough lower body training as well because it requires certain activation of calf muscles to be able to perform these evasive maneuvers. Striding, pivots, balance.

I could go on for another 3 pages. My point is, despite playing with pros, they play a much different pro game that IMO isn’t tailored for the NA game at all. There’s a severe discrepancy in terms of pace, processing ability, and skating. There’s also a severe lack of focus on developing younger players to become every day players for their respective clubs. Coaches will literally play these 18-22 year olds about 2-7 minutes a night, sometimes they’ll dress and not even play at all, yet it counts as 1 pro game.

When I determine their experience, I almost exclusively focus on their pro experience in NA.

I agree and appreciate the detailed breakdown of the rationale. My point was, in part, that Raty was advanced into the pro ranks at a very young age. Subsequent development aside, that in itself speaks to the projections for the player. The fact that he came over to NA and got almost 70 games in the AHL/NHL as a 19/20 year old is a good thing. The apparent improved skating might have something to do with that.

 

[MS]

He's not ready yet but even with his massive skating issues his all-around game means he'll probably slide in as a depth C in a year or so. No real top-6 upside but could become a solid 3C.

One thing I do wish is that he was more physical. He's a big guy who works hard but there is absolutely zero mean streak there and he generally turns away from finishing hits, and when he does finish his check it's generally a light rub-out.

On a team lacking size and pushback he could probably get himself to the NHL a lot sooner if he could find some bite, but it just doesn't seem to be there.

 

[andora]

He's not ready yet but even with his massive skating issues his all-around game means he'll probably slide in as a depth C in a year or so. No real top-6 upside but could become a solid 3C.

One thing I do wish is that he was more physical. He's a big guy who works hard but there is absolutely zero mean streak there and he generally turns away from finishing hits, and when he does finish his check it's generally a light rub-out.

On a team lacking size and pushback he could probably get himself to the NHL a lot sooner if he could find some bite, but it just doesn't seem to be there.

i noticed this as well in victoria - while he is very strong in 1on1s for his age/frame - where you would expect that certain bite and pushback it didn't come. now there is always the youth factor, and sometimes it takes a bit to become comfortable in being nasty - i hope he develops that cause he could be a real bitch to play against if he adds that

 

[MS]

i noticed this as well in victoria - while he is very strong in 1on1s for his age/frame - where you would expect that certain bite and pushback it didn't come. now there is always the youth factor, and sometimes it takes a bit to become comfortable in being nasty - i hope he develops that cause he could be a real bitch to play against if he adds that

He's a tank and there were a couple times in Abbotsford last year that guys tried hitting him and just bounced off. If he could add that to his game, it would be awesome.

But he had 6 PIM in 25 games in Abbotsford last year and I just don't think that's ever going to be something that comes naturally.

 

[arttk]

He's a tank and there were a couple times in Abbotsford last year that guys tried hitting him and just bounced off. If he could add that to his game, it would be awesome.

But he had 6 PIM in 25 games in Abbotsford last year and I just don't think that's ever going to be something that comes naturally.

could also be due to his skating. hard to hit people when you are a step or two behind all the time.

 

[MS]

could also be due to his skating. hard to hit people when you are a step or two behind all the time.

Sometimes maybe but Joshua is just as slow and had 200 hits last year.

Watching him in Abbotsford, he did have lots of opportunities to finish guys hard into the boards and be mean and he just didn't take them. Never a guy pushing back in scrums etc. either.

 

[Nucker101]

Hindsight here, but I wish the Bleuger signing hadn't happened, so that there was a more defined spot for Raty on the roster. Good thing it's only a 1 year deal.

Weird comment after Blueger’s oerdorksnce yesterday and Raty looking just OK.

I still think Pius Suter is more likely to end up end up being the “why did we sign this guy?” player.

 

[innitfam]

Weird comment after Blueger’s oerdorksnce yesterday and Raty looking just OK.

I still think Pius Suter is more likely to end up end up being the “why did we sign this guy?” player.

Time will tell. I'm quite excited about Raty so I guess that's my bias.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Give him the reins in Abby this year.

Emergency call up with focus on making the team next year.

 

[HairyKneel]

Still a bit jarring to see Blueger wearing Bo Horvat's old No. 53.....but the best strategy for Raty is have him dominate at the AHL-level, with an occasional callup to Vancouver. After all, he's still only 20.

What the hell is jarring about it? Horvat was a solid vanilla player. I’d assume he will go in to the ring of decent. Soon to be joined by Chris Odleifsson and AV.

Jarring would be someone wearing 10, 22 or 33. They should put 12, 19, and 16 back into use. and move them to the ring of mediocre. i’m tired of these scrub players wearing wide receivers digits.

 

[MS]

What the hell is jarring about it? Horvat was a solid vanilla player. I’d assume he will go in to the ring of decent. Soon to be joined by Chris Odleifsson and AV.

Jarring would be someone wearing 10, 22 or 33. They should put 12, 19, and 16 back into use. and move them to the ring of mediocre. i’m tired of these scrub players wearing wide receivers digits.

Holy overreaction.

I don't think he was saying that Horvat was a superstar, just that it's freaking weird to see a #53 taking faceoffs after 9 years of Bo Horvat wearing that number.

Jake Virtanen was garbage but I still find it a bit jarring/weird to see Klimovich skating around in #18 right now, and Virtanen has been gone for a couple years. Horvat was here way longer and had a unique uniform number.

 

[HairyKneel]

Holy overreaction.

I don't think he was saying that Horvat was a superstar, just that it's freaking weird to see a #53 taking faceoffs after 9 years of Bo Horvat wearing that number.

Jake Virtanen was garbage but I still find it a bit jarring/weird to see Klimovich skating around in #18 right now, and Virtanen has been gone for a couple years. Horvat was here way longer and had a unique uniform number.

i have a headache. i just never understood the market’s love affair with Donnie Lever, Stan, Trevor etc.

i got over Markus wearing Ron Delorme’s and Tim Hunter’s # 19 so I can likely get past this.

 

[VanJack]

Regardless of how the rest of training camp goes, Raty is light-years ahead of where he was at the end of last season. His off-season progression has been startling, and rekindles the excitement for a center who's still only 20.

 

[Yultron]

Hindsight here, but I wish the Bleuger signing hadn't happened, so that there was a more defined spot for Raty on the roster. Good thing it's only a 1 year deal.

Raty isn’t ready for the NHL in my opinion . He needs to really breakout in Abby and then it will be perfect .

I really like how this management group is prioritizing development and not rushing anyone and are making all of the right moves and I really feel Cole and Blueger are the right stop cap players while we let the kids develop

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Unfortunately, a lot of young players that come out of the Liiga/SHL usually are developmentally flawed.

Not only is competition weaker in these league, they don’t necessarily produce young players that are polished fundamentally for the pro game. The biggest flaw is usually skating.

The first thing I notice when these players come over to NA is that their technical skating is usually their weakest area. I have a few theories on this. Large arenas means there’s more open space. A lot of these players are North-south skaters for that reason, electing to carry the puck in a straight line usually towards the perimeter to avoid contact, almost hugging their side of the boards. Laterally, they don’t use short C cuts/tight turns to maneuver through the middle of the ice, instead they glide through and use their skills and puck handling (which seem to be their strongest tools) to create plays. They have no sort of short game or advanced edge control that allows them to maneuver around the boards or corners. They simply don’t feel the need to. They’ve got a ton of space to simply straight line skate through these corners a whole second earlier than they would in a smaller arena.

Strength is also an issue which stems from poor skating habits. They prefer to teach these kids skill based drills rather than skating based drills like puck protection, forechecking, start/stop drills in the neutral zone. Perhaps they don’t do enough lower body training as well because it requires certain activation of calf muscles to be able to perform these evasive maneuvers. Striding, pivots, balance.

I could go on for another 3 pages. My point is, despite playing with pros, they play a much different pro game that IMO isn’t tailored for the NA game at all. There’s a severe discrepancy in terms of pace, processing ability, and skating. There’s also a severe lack of focus on developing younger players to become every day players for their respective clubs. Coaches will literally play these 18-22 year olds about 2-7 minutes a night, sometimes they’ll dress and not even play at all, yet it counts as 1 pro game.

When I determine their experience, I almost exclusively focus on their pro experience in NA.

Agree on Liiga. 100% Disagree on SHL.

The volume of players that go through the CHL is so much bigger that the top products are better on average but there is no better place to develop than the SHL. As long as you are good enough to warrant icetime.

 

[VanJack]

Raty has to be surely one of the most positive stories in training camp.....this kid will be an NHL player, no doubt about it. The only question is 'how high is his ceiling'?