Value of: Aaron Dell and Brenden Dillion to the Leafs.

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m not saying they aren’t. I’m saying that we have no interest in Ceci and he has negative value to us which every Sharks fan here has agreed with. **** even @Pinkfloyd agreed with me and we don’t agree on anything.

The only way we'll have interest in Ceci is if Toronto is paying us to take him in some fashion. If they're willing to fork over a 1st to get Dillon while we take Ceci then I think it's possible we'd make a deal as long as the other additions to the deal make up the difference because I don't think the Sharks would do a flat Ceci+1st for Dillon deal.

 

[Gecklund]

The only way we'll have interest in Ceci is if Toronto is paying us to take him in some fashion. If they're willing to fork over a 1st to get Dillon while we take Ceci then I think it's possible we'd make a deal as long as the other additions to the deal make up the difference because I don't think the Sharks would do a flat Ceci+1st for Dillon deal.

Yep agreed.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

The only way we'll have interest in Ceci is if Toronto is paying us to take him in some fashion. If they're willing to fork over a 1st to get Dillon while we take Ceci then I think it's possible we'd make a deal as long as the other additions to the deal make up the difference because I don't think the Sharks would do a flat Ceci+1st for Dillon deal.

The leafs won't pay a first for dillion just to include ceci. Some team may pay that but I doubt that team is the leafs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The leafs won't pay a first for dillion just to include ceci. Some team may pay that but I doubt that team is the leafs.

That's fine. I'm not expecting it. I'm just saying that's the likely framework for such a deal. It's likely that a 2nd plus some other asset is the deal made but the Sharks won't be taking back cap dumps without a sweetener.

 

[Nolan11]

The only way we'll have interest in Ceci is if Toronto is paying us to take him in some fashion. If they're willing to fork over a 1st to get Dillon while we take Ceci then I think it's possible we'd make a deal as long as the other additions to the deal make up the difference because I don't think the Sharks would do a flat Ceci+1st for Dillon deal.

I usually defer to your hockey chops PF, as I often agree with your posts. In this case, I have to disagree. Ceci is on an expiring contract. If it gives us a 1st for dillion, I suspect DW does that deal every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Heck, he'd probably find a way to deal Ceci at 50% for a 4th and a 7th.

 

[Liferleafer]

That's fine. I'm not expecting it. I'm just saying that's the likely framework for such a deal. It's likely that a 2nd plus some other asset is the deal made but the Sharks won't be taking back cap dumps without a sweetener.

Ceci is an expiring contract. If the agreed deal for Dillion is a 2nd+whatever...then yes, there would be a sweetener to take Ceci, but it wouldn't be upgrading the deal to a 1st....it would be adding a 3rd to the original deal.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I usually defer to your hockey chops PF, as I often agree with your posts. In this case, I have to disagree. Ceci is on an expiring contract. If it gives us a 1st for dillion, I suspect DW does that deal every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Heck, he'd probably find a way to deal Ceci at 50% for a 4th and a 7th.

I have my doubts. Ceci is worthless like Galchenyuk is worthless. Teams don't want these players so if a team wants to get rid of them, they need to put forth something the other team with the cap space wants. Taking that much cap space and giving the Leafs that much flexibility is worth more than upgrading one round and there's no way in hell they'd be able to turn around and rent Ceci out because nobody that rents players will want him on their team.

Ceci is an expiring contract. If the agreed deal for Dillion is a 2nd+whatever...then yes, there would be a sweetener to take Ceci, but it wouldn't be upgrading the deal to a 1st....it would be adding a 3rd to the original deal.

Then there would be no deal for Ceci because taking him on by getting a 3rd is not worth doing the Leafs or any team a favor to that extent. You undervalue the flexibility acquired by moving Ceci for Toronto and the teams that are actually going to help them out are not going to do so at such a cheap rate.

 

[Liferleafer]

I have my doubts. Ceci is worthless like Galchenyuk is worthless. Teams don't want these players so if a team wants to get rid of them, they need to put forth something the other team with the cap space wants. Taking that much cap space and giving the Leafs that much flexibility is worth more than upgrading one round and there's no way in hell they'd be able to turn around and rent Ceci out because nobody that rents players will want him on their team.



Then there would be no deal for Ceci because taking him on by getting a 3rd is not worth doing the Leafs or any team a favor to that extent. You undervalue the flexibility acquired by moving Ceci for Toronto and the teams that are actually going to help them out are not going to do so at such a cheap rate.

So you're saying you are happy with a 2nd+2nd for Dell and Dillion...but you walk away if the Leafs add a 3rd for you to take an expiring contract? The Sharks are 11 points out, you aren't taking Ceci the player to make a playoff run...you are taking an expiring contract (name on jersey means nothing) and getting an extra pick. I get Sharks fans aren't used to the concept of being sellers...but this is how it works. You're not doing the Leafs a favor, you are doing what needs to happen to facilitate a deal in which you get the desired value for Dell and Dillion, and you are being paid a 3rd to do that.

 

[Groo]

So you're saying you are happy with a 2nd+2nd for Dell and Dillion...but you walk away if the Leafs add a 3rd for you to take an expiring contract? The Sharks are 11 points out, you aren't taking Ceci the player to make a playoff run...you are taking an expiring contract (name on jersey means nothing) and getting an extra pick. I get Sharks fans aren't used to the concept of being sellers...but this is how it works. You're not doing the Leafs a favor, you are doing what needs to happen to facilitate a deal in which you get the desired value for Dell and Dillion, and you are being paid a 3rd to do that.

You seem to forget, the Sharks don't need the Leafs at all in order to make a deal
That's how it really works

 

[Liferleafer]

You seem to forget, the Sharks don't need the Leafs at all in order to make a deal
That's how it really works

That's true as well. But if the Leafs offer is the best one?

 

[Groo]

That's true as well. But if the Leafs offer is the best one?

If the Leafs offer up the best deal for Dillon or Dell or both...Sure why not.

 

[Liferleafer]

If the Leafs offer up the best deal for Dillon or Dell or both...Sure why not.

That's what i was getting at. If the Leafs offered the best value for Dillion and Dell...but had to add Ceci to make it work cap wise (and added a 3rd fro that), i don't see Wilson walking away.

 

[Groo]

That's what i was getting at. If the Leafs offered the best value for Dillion and Dell...but had to add Ceci to make it work cap wise (and added a 3rd fro that), i don't see Wilson walking away.

A 3rd round pick is almost a worthless piece any where but HF.
I'd rather they identify prospects and try and make trades vs draft picks( that might just be me)
I'd also much rather them use any non used cap space to try and snag a higher pick in exchange for a cap dump
Nothing against the Leafs

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That's what i was getting at. If the Leafs offered the best value for Dillion and Dell...but had to add Ceci to make it work cap wise (and added a 3rd fro that), i don't see Wilson walking away.

So basically you are saying that Ceci + 3rd round pick for nothing? That is what it really comes to right

Like @Groo said, if the Best deal for Dell and Dillon comes from Toronto, then this should be fine. The Sharks should have cap space AND a spot on D for Ceci to play on so really could work.

I would think that selling Dillon and Dell separately get us better value but can't say for sure.

 

[Cotton]

I have my doubts. Ceci is worthless like Galchenyuk is worthless. Teams don't want these players so if a team wants to get rid of them, they need to put forth something the other team with the cap space wants. Taking that much cap space and giving the Leafs that much flexibility is worth more than upgrading one round and there's no way in hell they'd be able to turn around and rent Ceci out because nobody that rents players will want him on their team.



Then there would be no deal for Ceci because taking him on by getting a 3rd is not worth doing the Leafs or any team a favor to that extent. You undervalue the flexibility acquired by moving Ceci for Toronto and the teams that are actually going to help them out are not going to do so at such a cheap rate.

San Jose wouldn't be providing any flexibility though. The difference in remaining salary, as of today, actually has Toronto adding about 200k in this hypothetical. All three are pending UFA's.

This is what's remaining on their contracts as of today;
Ceci $1,475,806
Dillion $1,072,419
Dell $623,118

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

San Jose wouldn't be providing any flexibility though. The difference in remaining salary, as of today, actually has Toronto adding about 200k in this hypothetical. All three are pending UFA's.

This is what's remaining on their contracts as of today;
Ceci $1,475,806
Dillion $1,072,419
Dell $623,118

If you wanted Sharks to retain, they can do that for both Dell and Dillon. But they are really not going to retain on both and also take Ceci on.

 

[Liferleafer]

So basically you are saying that Ceci + 3rd round pick for nothing? That is what it really comes to right

Like @Groo said, if the Best deal for Dell and Dillon comes from Toronto, then this should be fine. The Sharks should have cap space AND a spot on D for Ceci to play on so really could work.

I would think that selling Dillon and Dell separately get us better value but can't say for sure.

No, but even if i was saying that, a team looking for a rebuild/retool should jump at the chance to take a free 3rd for 20ish games of an expiring contract when you aren't making the playoffs. Then look to peddle him at the deadline for yet another free late pick.

 

[Liferleafer]

If you wanted Sharks to retain, they can do that for both Dell and Dillon. But they are really not going to retain on both and also take Ceci on.

If you took Ceci, retention wouldn't be needed....that's the point.

 

[Cotton]

If you wanted Sharks to retain, they can do that for both Dell and Dillon. But they are really not going to retain on both and also take Ceci on.

I don't care for this trade myself, just correcting the idea that this is creating flexibility for Toronto or adding some outrageous salary to San Jose that it would require an additional cost.

 

[themelkman]

That's what i was getting at. If the Leafs offered the best value for Dillion and Dell...but had to add Ceci to make it work cap wise (and added a 3rd fro that), i don't see Wilson walking away.

If the leafs give us the best deal then yes.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

So you're saying you are happy with a 2nd+2nd for Dell and Dillion...but you walk away if the Leafs add a 3rd for you to take an expiring contract? The Sharks are 11 points out, you aren't taking Ceci the player to make a playoff run...you are taking an expiring contract (name on jersey means nothing) and getting an extra pick. I get Sharks fans aren't used to the concept of being sellers...but this is how it works. You're not doing the Leafs a favor, you are doing what needs to happen to facilitate a deal in which you get the desired value for Dell and Dillion, and you are being paid a 3rd to do that.

A 3rd round pick is utterly meaningless to the Sharks. They've literally only drafted one real NHL player from the 3rd round. The concept of being a seller is identifying what it is that you want and leveraging your assets to get what you want. The Sharks don't want a 3rd round pick in that sense. They want a 1st round pick if we're to believe the reports and rumors to any real extent. Taking a 3rd to take Ceci doesn't do that. If the Leafs offer two 2nd round picks for Dell and Dillon then maybe that's a deal that can be done. If you think it's as simple as throwing away a 3rd round pick for a team to take Ceci off your hands for the rest of this season then make that offer elsewhere and see who bites. Otherwise, if the Sharks are going to help facilitate a deal with the Leafs, they need to meet our terms to make that happen especially if you're asking for two rentals who are bright spots on a dark season for this team. The Sharks can get a 2nd plus another asset from any contending team for Dillon. I doubt they could get a 2nd for Dell but a 3rd or a 4th seems in line for where he's at right now if a team has a need for a backup.

You seem to mistake what the desired value for Dell and Dillon is. It's not a couple of 2nds and a 3rd. It's a 1st. I'd much rather have a 1st and a 3rd to do all that than two 2nds and a 3rd. No team, especially the Sharks, gives a rat's ass about a 3rd round pick.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

San Jose wouldn't be providing any flexibility though. The difference in remaining salary, as of today, actually has Toronto adding about 200k in this hypothetical. All three are pending UFA's.

This is what's remaining on their contracts as of today;
Ceci $1,475,806
Dillion $1,072,419
Dell $623,118

Sure they would because the alternative is Ceci and no additions to your team. That is more flexibility by default. It's just that you're immediately turning around and using it more productively.

 

[Liferleafer]

A 3rd round pick is utterly meaningless to the Sharks. They've literally only drafted one real NHL player from the 3rd round. The concept of being a seller is identifying what it is that you want and leveraging your assets to get what you want. The Sharks don't want a 3rd round pick in that sense. They want a 1st round pick if we're to believe the reports and rumors to any real extent. Taking a 3rd to take Ceci doesn't do that. If the Leafs offer two 2nd round picks for Dell and Dillon then maybe that's a deal that can be done. If you think it's as simple as throwing away a 3rd round pick for a team to take Ceci off your hands for the rest of this season then make that offer elsewhere and see who bites. Otherwise, if the Sharks are going to help facilitate a deal with the Leafs, they need to meet our terms to make that happen especially if you're asking for two rentals who are bright spots on a dark season for this team. The Sharks can get a 2nd plus another asset from any contending team for Dillon. I doubt they could get a 2nd for Dell but a 3rd or a 4th seems in line for where he's at right now if a team has a need for a backup.

You seem to mistake what the desired value for Dell and Dillon is. It's not a couple of 2nds and a 3rd. It's a 1st. I'd much rather have a 1st and a 3rd to do all that than two 2nds and a 3rd. No team, especially the Sharks, gives a rat's ass about a 3rd round pick.

Neither player (Dell or Dillon) are worth a 1st on their own. Why would a team pay a 1st to get both? And i get you are not used to being a seller, but picks are not useless....even if your team doesn't draft well, picks are currency.

 

[Cotton]

Sure they would because the alternative is Ceci and no additions to your team. That is more flexibility by default. It's just that you're immediately turning around and using it more productively.

At a certain price point it is more palatable to just ride out with what you already have. That sounds like the most likely scenario.

 

[Gecklund]

Neither player (Dell or Dillon) are worth a 1st on their own. Why would a team pay a 1st to get both? And i get you are not used to being a seller, but picks are not useless....even if your team doesn't draft well, picks are currency.

Because two+two=four. It does not equal two.