Pre-Game Talk: A Week at the Sack (PHI, BUF, NSH)
- Thread starter forsbergavs32
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- Aug 25, 2006
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Really? I could have sworn I saw him on the PK. I guess I'm wrong. If true then I am glad they are recognizing Makar needs rest. And I agree Toews should be reduced a lot also on the PK.
- Apr 25, 2006
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That doesn't bother me, at the very least until MacKinnon comes back the Rantanen-at-center thing should be put to rest. I'm also glad they're done fooling around with Newhook there too. He's a wing, the sooner they admit that and stick to it the better off everyone will be.
Avs9296
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2019
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Rants isn't a center. I don't see it. Not his skillset. Doesn't move around the ice fast enough and doesn't have the defensive motor or instincts. He's a top 10 NHL winger let's just keep him there and let him dominate.
Safe to say the frustration from last night has not carried over
forsbergavs32
Global Moderator
- Jul 27, 2021
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Knowing our injury luck, more like Rantanen with fractured kneecap, out 12 weeks.
- Feb 24, 2012
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So I get why people think Rantanen can't succeed in the middle, and it makes sense. But I think people (and Bednar) are way too quick to jump off the wagon here.
He's played 3 games with Lehky and Nuke on his wings. They have played 28 minutes 5v5 and have a 63% xGF (actual 1 GF and 2 GA). One game with Newhook and Nuke on his wing, nearly 9 minutes of time xGF% of 91% (actual 1GF 0GA). One game (against Boston for what its worth) for 8 minutes with Hudon and Newhook on his wings with an xGF% of 17% (actual 0GF 0GA). One partial game with Colgs and LOC as his wings (Philly after the MacK injury), just over 5 mintues 28% xGF (actual 1GF 0GA). There are times in those games where the blender has been very active.
In total, in the 5 games since MacK went down, where Rantanen has been playing center, he has an xGF% of 60% with an actual of 57%. In those 5 games, he has 5 goals (was scoreless in 2). Last season, no one that played more than 10 games had an xGF% above 58 (Mikko was highest at 57.2%). The actual GF% is 57.14%.
Pretty clear to see that if he has decent linemates, he is actually doing very well with underlying numbers.
He's played 3 games with Lehky and Nuke on his wings. They have played 28 minutes 5v5 and have a 63% xGF (actual 1 GF and 2 GA). One game with Newhook and Nuke on his wing, nearly 9 minutes of time xGF% of 91% (actual 1GF 0GA). One game (against Boston for what its worth) for 8 minutes with Hudon and Newhook on his wings with an xGF% of 17% (actual 0GF 0GA). One partial game with Colgs and LOC as his wings (Philly after the MacK injury), just over 5 mintues 28% xGF (actual 1GF 0GA). There are times in those games where the blender has been very active.
In total, in the 5 games since MacK went down, where Rantanen has been playing center, he has an xGF% of 60% with an actual of 57%. In those 5 games, he has 5 goals (was scoreless in 2). Last season, no one that played more than 10 games had an xGF% above 58 (Mikko was highest at 57.2%). The actual GF% is 57.14%.
Pretty clear to see that if he has decent linemates, he is actually doing very well with underlying numbers.
Well, as I said before, maybe try again once MacKinnon's healthy, but it's clear that in every game he's been the 1C he was melting into the ice near the end of the game. Hell, even at the beginning of last night's contest he was caught out on a long shift and was helpless to stop TNT from racing in and scoring easily.
It also may be that Rants does not want to play center. I get that it's not entirely up to him, but it's probably best to put him in a position to succeed the best you can.
I still say regardless of what the underlying stats may be, putting Lehkonen/Rantanen/Nichushkin together as a line is a bad idea.
- Feb 24, 2012
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In the games that he's been #1C... he's played 27:00, 23:53, 22:04, 23:58, and 20:18. Those are not 1C minutes... really they are top pairing D sorts of minutes. There are zero centers in the league this year averaging 23+ minutes again (McDavid is just short) and only 3 are over 22 minutes. Only 16 centers average over 20. Maybe it isn't playing center, maybe it is the absurdly high ice time? 27 minutes is WAY too much to ask from a center, and certainly too much from one that skates like Rantanen. Put him around 19-20, I think it dramatically improves.
expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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Lineups are the one area that I disagree strongly with Bednar. He insists on loading all the talent into as few lines as possible. It's tough to win a team game with only one line and one defensive pairing but that's just the way he rolls. I will give him credit though, he's a Stanley Cup Champion Head Coach and I'm a dude on the internet with a keyboard.
Well that's entirely possible but a little more balance in the lineup would be nice if such a thing were possible. They've just got to get Nate back.
Yeah I see no reason why the Rantanen at Center experiment shouldn't continue at this point. He's producing, he's generating scoring chances, and when he's paired with solid wingers quite frankly they're dominating possession a lot of the time.
His skating is perfectly fine for Center(Plenty of worse skaters have excelled at Center before), and what he lacks in skating he also easily makes up for with his size and frame.
The issue is largely that he isn't just being used as 1C right now, he's playing shifts as the 3C, as the 4C, on the PP, etc. etc. Playing 23 minutes a night is extremely difficult to do for any Center in the game that very, very few Centers can actually do(Its honestly basically Mack and McDavid that can do this with regularity and that's it).
If Mack came back and Mikko's minutes got cut down, even from just 23 to 20... I think he'd look even better in the role. Not to mention that at that point teams also wouldn't be able to gameplan around just shutting down Mikko and his line. In fact, Macks line would certainly be the one teams would still target the most and Rantanen would likely start getting softer matchups a lot of the time.
I honestly think if they really, truly tried it and stuck with it for ~15-20 games at some point when the Avs are fully healthy(Or close to it), and gave Mikko a couple solid wingers(Lehky and ERod or Compher is what I would do I think as we know Landy and Nuke with Mack is a real strong line already), they would utterly dominate.
He looks pretty solid right now. Sure, defensive lapses happen like on Thompson last night, but they happen for pretty much every Center that isn't Bergeron or Barkov. And he's being asked to do so much on the ice right now, his minutes are through the roof.
His skating is perfectly fine for Center(Plenty of worse skaters have excelled at Center before), and what he lacks in skating he also easily makes up for with his size and frame.
The issue is largely that he isn't just being used as 1C right now, he's playing shifts as the 3C, as the 4C, on the PP, etc. etc. Playing 23 minutes a night is extremely difficult to do for any Center in the game that very, very few Centers can actually do(Its honestly basically Mack and McDavid that can do this with regularity and that's it).
If Mack came back and Mikko's minutes got cut down, even from just 23 to 20... I think he'd look even better in the role. Not to mention that at that point teams also wouldn't be able to gameplan around just shutting down Mikko and his line. In fact, Macks line would certainly be the one teams would still target the most and Rantanen would likely start getting softer matchups a lot of the time.
I honestly think if they really, truly tried it and stuck with it for ~15-20 games at some point when the Avs are fully healthy(Or close to it), and gave Mikko a couple solid wingers(Lehky and ERod or Compher is what I would do I think as we know Landy and Nuke with Mack is a real strong line already), they would utterly dominate.
He looks pretty solid right now. Sure, defensive lapses happen like on Thompson last night, but they happen for pretty much every Center that isn't Bergeron or Barkov. And he's being asked to do so much on the ice right now, his minutes are through the roof.
- Apr 25, 2006
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Last night we dominated chances. The biggest problems were, failure to make a decent shot, uncharacteristic turn overs by Toews and Makar and weak plays by Toews and Mikko. But even with those mistakes we should have won with all the chances we were generating. I can't remember a game where we had that many glorious chances and simply missed or put on the chest of the goalie.
- Apr 25, 2006
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- Jul 25, 2006
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Actually I think Mikko may have just injured himself by smashing the stick on his knee. That has out week to week with knee injury written all over it
ANewHope
Nuggets|Avs|Broncos
- May 26, 2011
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I think there's probably something more to Rantanen not getting a long look at C that we can't see. Maybe he wants to play wing, maybe MacKinnon doesn't like when they get split up, the Avalanche simply not valuing the position like fans do etc.
Given where the Avs are you can argue it didn't even make sense to not try it for 15-20 games at the start of the year. Newhook was always abit of a long shot and a 2C will cost a ton asset/$$ wise. It's not like you can't pair Rants/MacKinnon late in games. He's looked fine at C so far. Just like he has previously. That's with zero training camp playing C and him not getting a long extended look. Avs don't even seem to care enough to let it fail. If he doesn't play C with MacKinnon out no chance he gets moved back later.
Given where the Avs are you can argue it didn't even make sense to not try it for 15-20 games at the start of the year. Newhook was always abit of a long shot and a 2C will cost a ton asset/$$ wise. It's not like you can't pair Rants/MacKinnon late in games. He's looked fine at C so far. Just like he has previously. That's with zero training camp playing C and him not getting a long extended look. Avs don't even seem to care enough to let it fail. If he doesn't play C with MacKinnon out no chance he gets moved back later.
Metallo
NWOBHM forever \m/
Avs moving Mikko back to wing like they have a sure fire solution at C. 
Give it time, the lineup is in shambles it should be the moment to experiment.
Give it time, the lineup is in shambles it should be the moment to experiment.
expatriatedtexan
Habitual Line Stepper
- Aug 17, 2005
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I mean, I can kind of get it to a degree. Out of respect to Mikko, they probably decided that he would be the last to be given the chance. They were going to give everybody a shot eventually. Hook, ,ERod, JTC...hell, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some real outside hope that Meyers would be in the mix. But they were all going to get a good look with a healthy roster before Rantanen. So, when ERod returned they immediately went back to him to continue his shot, which like everyone else, other than Newhook, is still incomplete.
Newhook should now be encouraged to become the absolute best LW he can. He should watch film of Kariya in Anaheim.
But if one of these other guys doesn't work out, I'll be really pissed if they make a trade before trying Mikko again when we have a healthy roster.
Newhook should now be encouraged to become the absolute best LW he can. He should watch film of Kariya in Anaheim.
But if one of these other guys doesn't work out, I'll be really pissed if they make a trade before trying Mikko again when we have a healthy roster.
LOFIN
Registered User
- Sep 16, 2011
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A trade will occur, but will it be for a top-6 center or a winger that is the big question. A winger is going to be much cheaper.
