A SERIOUS DISCUSSION - Elias "The Swedish Beast" Lindholm

[Ole Gil]

With time and space, Lindholm is really really good. Without it, it seems like he struggles a bit. The same goes for Rask.

It'll be interesting to see how they do against a good teams that plays tight checking hockey.

 

[nobuddy]

With time and space, Lindholm is really really good. Without it, it seems like he struggles a bit. The same goes for Rask.

It'll be interesting to see how they do against a good teams that plays tight checking hockey.

They both scored against LA and Columbus.

 

[What the Faulk]

Well, to be fair, Columbus is bad right now plus they have their backup goalie in. But yeah, good stuff from Lindholm so far. Jody Shelley said last year "he's really ****ing good". I bet he's been even more impressed this season.

 

[Ole Gil]

If Columbus wasn't on a 7 game losing streak, and LA having lost 5 of 6, I'd agree. Neither team is playing particularly good at the moment.

We'll see going forward, I suppose, whether they are just beating up on bad teams or their games have turned a corner after the slow start. The schedule is definitely going to be turning up the difficulty level in the next few weeks.

(more importantly to my point, the goals outside of the Rask goal last night have been predominantly on the rush. Not much in terms of grinding out good offensive chances.)

 

[DaleCooper]

Well, one thing I've been thinking about is that in the past this team wouldn't consistently win the games that you expected them to win (such as these against teams that are in a huge rut). If that's a Peters effect (too small of a sample size to tell now) then I'm thrilled.

 

[NotOpie]

With time and space, Lindholm is really really good. Without it, it seems like he struggles a bit. The same goes for Rask.

It'll be interesting to see how they do against a good teams that plays tight checking hockey.

Well Victor's goal last night was one where he created space and quickly got his rocket of a shot off. So yeah, they struggled early, mostly with the speed of the game. But the Swedes seem to have put it together here in November. Tonight will be an interesting game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

(more importantly to my point, the goals outside of the Rask goal last night have been predominantly on the rush. Not much in terms of grinding out good offensive chances.)

Are you only referring to Rask and Lindholm when you say that Wally?

Lindholms: Off the rush
Skinners: Not off the rush
Rasks: Not off the rush

Game before:
Boychuk's: not off the rush
Nash's: not off the rush
Faulk's: Short Handed
E. Staal: EN

LAK Game:
Rask's: Off the rush
Terry's: Not off the rush (PPG)
Lindholm's: Off the rush

AX Game:
Lindholm's 1st: Not off the rush
Lindholm's 2nd: Not off the rush
Tlusty's: Not off the rush (PPG)

Overall these last 4 games, I'd say the team isn't scoring predominately off the rush and the ones in bold are ones I'd consider kinda in the "grind it out" category. Even if I just look at Lindholm and Rask. Rask has 1 off the rush and 1 not. Lindholm has 2 off the rush and 2 not.

EDIT: I'm not disputing your assertion that we need to see how these guys do against, healthy, good teams that are playing well, I agree with that.

 

[BrindAmours Army]

http://video.hurricanes.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=665881&navid=DL|CAR|home

Petition to make "Swedish Beast" Lindholm's official unofficial nickname

 

[DaveG]

Not to mention the Semin and (I think) Tlusty goals that weren't counted were generated off the cycle last night as well.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

http://video.hurricanes.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=665881&navid=DL|CAR|home

Petition to make "Swedish Beast" Lindholm's official unofficial nickname

I already changed the title of this thread this morning.

 

[Ole Gil]

Are you only referring to Rask and Lindholm when you say that Wally?

I was. And what they've done lately is great. But the first 8 games of the season haven't disappeared either. Rask only has 3 points this season, 2 of them coming last night, afterall.

The question with Lindholm is also a little different than Rask. With Elias, it's an issue of how good can he be. With Rask, it's a matter of whether he can make it in general.

Is Elias going to be an 'on the rush' and 'recipient' like Tlusty, or will he be able to drive the offense like a Staal/Semin type? (This year anyways. I think it's clear he'll eventually get there)

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

 

[bleedgreen]

I think what makes lindy special is that I think he can create both off the rush AND off the cycle. He might not have the strength yet to make it happen on the cycle consistently but he's plenty quick to turn to the net and has great offensive instincts in those situations. Give him a couple of years to learn how to time all the passes and learn the NHL lanes better and he will be a consistently dangerous player.

Rask is already good off the cycle sometimes because he can shield with his body very well, is pretty strong and has the swede skill level. He's an interesting Swedish player, he's borderline a power forward for their style. Not in the holmstrom way of course, but he uses his body way more than you're used to seeing in a swede. He has to since he isn't small and quick.

I'm assuming Rask has answered all the questions about his skating being good enough for the NHL, correct?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was. And what they've done lately is great. But the first 8 games of the season haven't disappeared either. Rask only has 3 points this season, 2 of them coming last night, afterall.

The question with Lindholm is also a little different than Rask. With Elias, it's an issue of how good can he be. With Rask, it's a matter of whether he can make it in general.

Is Elias going to be an 'on the rush' and 'recipient' like Tlusty, or will he be able to drive the offense like a Staal/Semin type? (This year anyways. I think it's clear he'll eventually get there)

Yeah, I agree with that Wally...4 good games are a nice start, but need to see sustained performance. I will offer a couple of observations though.

Based on some of the play I saw last season, I think eventually Lindholm will be a drive the offense type guy, and it may happen this year if his confidence continues to grow. He's not afraid to play a physical game as needed and he has all the tools IMO. Good hockey sense, good vision, good skater, not afraid of a physical game, a decent playmaker and a good shot.

What's been a pleasant surprise to me with Rask is how his overall/defensive game looks. He's in the right spot often, plays a responsible game, is strong enough to cycle the puck and shield players off using his body. Albeit, these recent games were against weaker and struggling teams so will need to see more of it to be convinced, but even if he doesn't become a "drive the offense" type guy, I think he has enough tools to even be a bottom six NHLr (if he can show it consistently).

 

[Joe McGrath]

While I think a drive the offense type player is ideal, if Lindholm can play on Jordan's wing for the next 10 years starting in the defensive zone predominately, scoring off the rush would certainly be helpful.

 

[StormCast]

Rask is already good off the cycle sometimes because he can shield with his body very well, is pretty strong and has the swede skill level. He's an interesting Swedish player, he's borderline a power forward for their style. Not in the holmstrom way of course, but he uses his body way more than you're used to seeing in a swede. He has to since he isn't small and quick.

I'm assuming Rask has answered all the questions about his skating being good enough for the NHL, correct?

Agreed about Rask and ironically with all the EL Beast comparisons to Forsberg, it's that fundamental trait of shielding with his body that most reminds me of him.

Regarding his skating, it's not great but his positioning and routes are usually very good, especially for a young guy, so any shortcomings haven't really been apparent.

 

[Nordic*]

I never understood why Lindholm wasn't able to deliver at this level, considering his pure raw talent and smartness, but it seems like he's finally been able to put it together?

Haven't seen a lot of him in the NHL, but as a younger player he looked like a clone of Backstrom and perhaps to an extent Forsberg. What do you make of him now?

 

[spockBokk]

I never understood why Lindholm wasn't able to deliver at this level, considering his pure raw talent and smartness, but it seems like he's finally been able to put it together?

Haven't seen a lot of him in the NHL, but as a younger player he looked like a clone of Backstrom and perhaps to an extent Forsberg. What do you make of him now?

Uhmmm...not sure if serious...the kid is 19. Your post implies that he's been in the league years and years. you're not really making sense here.

Anyway, I suppose he is getting a little long in the tooth in his 2nd year...

He's putting things together nicely for a young kid.

 

[Nordic*]

Uhmmm...not sure if serious...the kid is 19. Your post implies that he's been in the league years and years. you're not really making sense here.

Anyway, I suppose he is getting a little long in the tooth in his 2nd year...

He's putting things together nicely for a young kid.

Correct, I assumed that he would be productive from the get go, he wasn't.

Not that hard to understand, huh?

 

[Vagrant]

Correct, I assumed that he would be productive from the get go, he wasn't.

Not that hard to understand, huh?

I think it's interesting that you expected immediate success from Lindholm. Not because he's a bad player obviously, but the adjustment for kids that come straight into the NHL from Sweden is a bit rocky and they do seem to have a bit of a transition period to overcome. We're seeing Filip Forsberg have that same kind of spike developmentally after being somewhat underwhelming to start his North American career compared to expectations. A lot of the most talented Swedes to come over in the past decade seemed to have trouble at the outset which is strange when you consider their reputations. Hedman, Forsberg, Zibanejad, Paajarvi, Johansson, Larsson, etc.

I think Lindholm is a smart kid and his strongest asset is between the ears. I don't see him as what some would call exceptionally skilled in the traditional sense. Not the kind of guy like Nichushkin that can come into the NHL with his speed and size and take the league by storm in his first season. It's going to be a process. He had a prorated 30 point season last year. If he can hit the 40-50 mark this season while staying healthy, I think that will set him up nicely for expectations going into his third full season. We all collectively get so spoiled by the guys that have instant success that it's tough to not get a little tense about the development of a player that doesn't come into the league and blow the doors off and needs some time to watch the game and learn. Skinner was one of those players for us that just cast expectations aside and came out swinging. But for all the ire it might draw here, he was nearly a complete offensive player his first season as he likely ever will be. A lot of what made him so dangerous was the fact that he had no sense of self-preservation and made plays on heart that other players weren't willing to make in order to stick with an offensive chance that others would have considered unlikely. Driving back on two defenders and cutting to the middle of the ice. Doing things that coaches don't really like, but respect as being ballsy. That was Jeff. Lindholm is more patient in his game. He'll live to see another shift if his offensive opportunity isn't out there. It's a more reserved style of game and one that leads to a better chance of him being a healthy player. A lot like the trait that you see as being pervasive in Swedish hockey with the Sedins and such. If it's not there, don't kill yourself trying to make it be. You're more valuable to your team by being healthy than trading that for a single scoring chance.

But I like the steps that Lindholm has taken this year in knowing when to get aggressive with the puck and when to roll the dice a little. He's showing some instincts that are going to make him a productive scorer. Good habits.

 

[spockBokk]

Correct, I assumed that he would be productive from the get go, he wasn't.

Not that hard to understand, huh?

Expecting instant production from 18yr olds isn't very logical.

Only a very select few make it to the league straight out of the draft and even less not named Stamkos, Crosby, McKinnon or Skinner make the jump without adjustments. In a perfect JR-free world, Lindholm should have spent one more year in Sweden instead of being thrown in unprepared at the beginning of last season. Towards the end of last season, he got healthy and made the adjustment and was productive. 21pts for an 18yr kid on CAR is not that bad of a rookie season.

 

[What the Faulk]

Well said Vagrant. You bring up a lot of good points I never really considered about Swedes but it seems like there's something to it.

I will say that I think Lindholm staying in Sweden last year would have been a bad choice. He needed to acclimate to the North American sized rinks a difference style of play. Maybe more time in the AHL, but definitely not Sweden.

 

[AD Skinner]

So how boned are the canes if lindholm doesn't play today?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

5-1 loss

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

5-1 loss

lindholm scores all six goals.