A positive thread about the ASG women's 3 on 3 match

[Buffdog]

A couple of years ago the University of Manitoba female Bison team won the national championships (any time a manitoba team wins anything national it's a big deal). The city rallied around them. I think if you had a pro team here and they went on a run in the playoffs they'd catch on. As it is, female bisons games are relatively well attended.

It should also be noted that the best female players coming out of the prep programs and U18 AAA in manitoba are passing on out of province offers to play at home for the U of M. My point being that the team is the "pot of gold" at the end if the rainbow for the girls, much like the nhl or pro levels will be for the boys. Having a female pro team here in the city would be another level for the girls to aspire to.

Somewhat coincidently (or maybe not), I'll be watching the best U14 (bantam) AAA girls in manitoba compete at the all star game. Skills-wise it's not the same as the boys, but it's still fun to watch. For the most part girls games are lower scoring (last year the allstar game ended 0-0 lol - never seen that before) but it's still fast, smart hockey.

Also, as my daughter gets older she gets a whole lot harder to play against. This year she tracked me down in a breakaway in the fun parents kids game lol.... and shes not even 15 yet. Yeah, the top female players in the world aren't anywhere near the level of the men but they'd kick the shit out of most of the beer league teams that guys in this thread who are disparaging them play on.

 

[oilexport]

nature doesn't care about your feelings, and liberty/free economics is an extension of nature in that demand for a given product, (or labor) sets the value of that labor. if you're a subsistence farmer, you can toil away for hours every day on a piece of art in your barn, which when it comes time to harvest the crops, has zero value- there's no innate, natural value to that labor. rather, it requires someone else to see value in that art, and be willing to trade their surplus of food stuffs to you for that art.
you don't get to choose your profession and then demand others with surplus support your daily efforts. labor's value is found in either it's capability to keep you alive another day, or in the eyes of another person, and it's unfair to push your value set on those eyes.


this is the real reason it makes sense to invest in the women's game- if you can create a demand for it, it will eventually pay off, likely in the form of a larger fanbase for the nhl as currently constructed.


the saving grace here is that many mediocre products thrive in the marketplace, but the real key is thinking of the women's game as an investment.

Good stuff. I think the women should develop hockey to taylor there athletic strengths to make it more exciting and sell the game.

One example is the goalie equipment. Female hockey should limit the size of pads and gloves drastically, this is because the female can excel in net (canadian goalie stopped everything the us threw at her) because the position is more tailored for that strength with females. Yet skating and stick skills taylor to men.

When ya think about it, it's a game invented by a guy, and specifically tailored for him. If the females invented a sport that suits their strengths, they would kick the males butt, at the ticket counter, ex. Gymnastics...

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

but they'd kick the **** out of most of the beer league teams that guys in this thread who are disparaging them play on.

Common sense tells you that’s where a lot of this animosity towards these women is coming from.

 

[FelixPotvin29]

For free? Sure.
Would you pay to watch it ( and be honest)?

Maybe, depends on the format and package. I pay for the Sportsnet app and honestly I can’t bring myself to watch most nhl games there (ie wild vs coyotes).

I think if it was included in the package I pay for Leafs games and there was an interesting format then sure. I’m always excited to watch Canada US... maybe an all women’s league with original six teams. I don’t know.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I started watching about halfway through the women’s 3 on 3. I thought it was pretty fun. More entertaining than the accuracy thing they did to end the night. Dragging out Keith “Michelin Man” Tkachuk and Brett “walking booze bottle” Hull was some serious cringe.

Indeed, either go full WWE with it and have Hull f***ing tackle Mitch Marner on a 30 foot platform or don't.

Anyway, women's game was quite entertaining but the rosters were WAY too small for 20 minute 3-on-3 game. Everyone was just so gassed for the last 8+ minutes.

 

[mja]

Visit the UK and see what happens when you express an opposite opinion.

The f*** does visiting the UK have to do with anything? What, they put you in the Tower of London? Kick you out of the royal family?

If some dudes are going to get triggered about women's hockey in NA getting any kind of attention or advocacy and post shit in this specific thread, then they deserve to be called an assholes, and no, it's not shutting down their right to free speech.

Don't want to watch it? Then don't. Don't have anything positive to say? Then don't be an asshole and post in this thread. I mean, just how f***ing hard is "don't be an asshole" anyway?

 

[Stephen]

I enjoyed the free wheeling aspect of the game and the open ice that was available to make plays. The stickhandling was fantastic, the goaltending was phenomenal but the power wasn't quite the same.

 

[ThirdManIn]

I was listening to the problems that the female players brought up during the segment interviews. They brought up the issue of not being able to make a living at it, and how unfair it was. I believe they have unrealistic expectations that are clouded by all the encouragement they receive.

I was glad to watch them on this occasion and admire there athleticism and hard work to get to the top of their class. I look up to them !!!

These are adults. I'm sure they are able to separate their expectations from their reality. They are complex beings capable of finding it unfair that they can't make a living at something they love doing simply because they are females rather than males without having unrealistic expectations. Those things do not conflict.

 

[eartotheground]

These are adults. I'm sure they are able to separate their expectations from their reality. They are complex beings capable of finding it unfair that they can't make a living at something they love doing simply because they are females rather than males without having unrealistic expectations. Those things do not conflict.

except there are men of equivalent and better talent/skill that cannon make a living doing that same thing they love in spite of being males.

i think that's a part of some of the frustration we're reading here.. they were afforded the all star opportunity not based on their ability, but rather their sex.
they want to be paid a wage to do something they want because of their sex.. (otherwise, open their league to men and let's see how it goes)

i understand it from a business sense, (my daughters really enjoyed it, and i enjoyed watching the game with them) but i also see the side of men who don't like it, the same way women don't like it if a man gets something simply for being born a man.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

What I didn't care for is that it really did just seem like a hit piece against the NWHL. I don't really know anything about that situation but my god, it just reeked of bias with how much they were going off on it.

My understanding of the situation is if the NHL was ever going to create a women’s league, it would be separate from what the NWHL is now

So for lack of a better term, the NWHL is competition for an NHL funded league

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

Men’s hockey wasn’t always this talented top to bottom (the best 1920s team would get smoked by the worst junior team today), and it wasn’t always even profitable. Part of the reason there is such a talent deficiency is because there isn’t a viable path for women to even think about pursuing when it comes to being a hockey player. Supporting a women’s league and building the sport would go a long way to improving the quality because it would vastly expand the talent pool. Over time I think it would increase similarly to the rise of the NHL, but in the meantime we have to be okay with it being like many of the failed men’s hockey leagues of the past. To me, I think making that investment is worth it, and absolutely fair considering men’s hockey got to where it is by growing for over 100 years.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

I love watching woman’s hockey,
I didn’t like the timbit style 3-3 intermission game set up would of rather seen the top 2-3 best at each event allowed to go head to head in the events, after fastest skater last year the mini game felt like a cop out
Women are not at the same level as the Nhl men but it’s a different game everyone can see that.
My take is it has to start somewhere.
The nhl players today are better than 30 years ago top to bottom, far more skilled and coming from far wider reach of the world. If hockey didn’t move to Phoenix we wouldn’t have Austin Mathews
If there was a league that was sustainable that young females aspired to play in, more would. And the more that play the higher the level goes. I hope the nhl does subsidies the wnhl as a long term investment

This.

 

[mjlee]

I thought it was fun and a change where players actually cared about winning at the All Star. When it comes to women's hockey, it's never going to be male hockey, first because of sheer physicality. Apart from equestrian (and yes it is a sport) no sport is played by male and females together on equal terms which doesn't invalidate female sports. Remember 'Battle of the Sexes' way back when arguably the best female tennis player of all time, Billie Jean King, barely beat a 55 year old former male player. Annika Sorenstam, again arguably one of the best female golf players of all time missed the cut in the one PGA competition she entered. And tennis and golf are sports that are not remotely as dependent on physical strength as hockey. Most talented girl players tend to play on male teams until puberty when they can't keep up physically, just like many boys who enter puberty late quit.

The second factor as regards skills is that not a fraction of resources are devoted to girls growing up as they do to boys. Boys can basically devote all their time to honing their skills while girls have problems getting ice time not to mention decent coaching, special camps etc. Just compare how much money parents are willing to devote to their sons playing hockey to their daughters, and what competition/cup/team opportunities there are for girls.

Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby are marvels on ice. But how much worse would they be if they were forced to have second job while playing pro? As well as little or no acess to support staff, medical care, nutritionists, etc, etc, etc. Crosby would probably not have played any longer because of his concussion/neck problems unless the Pens paid for specialists to examine him which didn't exactly come cheap and that cost alone would in all probability pay for a team of pro female hockey players.

I have not seen one female hockey player demand/ask for comparative salaries, what they do want is a salary they can survive on without a second job. You want more skilled female hockey players? Give girls access to equal resources growing up.

And ftr female hockey players are going against the stream and want more hitting in their game although so far the powers that be have refused to change the rules. Oh, and rather amusing, in this year's SDHL (womens equivalence to SHL) there have been a lot of hits, as well as a few fights ending in suspensions. For those who find such things equal 'real' hockey.

 

[buud]

sports is good for people. period. let's do it...

 

[Sanchise90]

Men’s hockey wasn’t always this talented top to bottom (the best 1920s team would get smoked by the worst junior team today), and it wasn’t always even profitable. Part of the reason there is such a talent deficiency is because there isn’t a viable path for women to even think about pursuing when it comes to being a hockey player. Supporting a women’s league and building the sport would go a long way to improving the quality because it would vastly expand the talent pool. Over time I think it would increase similarly to the rise of the NHL, but in the meantime we have to be okay with it being like many of the failed men’s hockey leagues of the past. To me, I think making that investment is worth it, and absolutely fair considering men’s hockey got to where it is by growing for over 100 years.

There is no precedent that it would rise to the level of the NHL in any context. Just for comparison's sake, the WNBA has been around since the 90's and actually has a National Television contract through the NBA. They still to this day rely on the NBA treating them as a charity to stay afloat. It's not worth taking on because it has not proven to be viable in any capacity unless national pride is involved.

 

[Vincenzo Arelliti]

There is no precedent that it would rise to the level of the NHL in any context. Just for comparison's sake, the WNBA has been around since the 90's and actually has a National Television contract through the NBA. They still to this day rely on the NBA treating them as a charity to stay afloat. It's not worth taking on because it has not proven to be viable in any capacity unless national pride is involved.

That’s only 30 years. It took forever for men’s leagues to get themselves established before we got the NHL, and that was in a different time with more hospitable conditions (not having to compete with the behemoth that is the NHL/NBA alone is noteworthy).

I think given enough time a women’s league could become profitable ENOUGH, and ultimately would lead to a more talented female hockey; perhaps even making it so some female players could crossover into the NHL. It could take a very long time, but like I said, men have had over 100 years to rise to the talent and financial behemoth they enjoy today.

 

[BruinLVGA]

The level of competition disparity isn't really about skill, more about the physical differences between the sexes that manifest in terms of performance. Some of these women have better hands and hockey IQ than your average 2nd liner in the show. The simple fact of the matter is that 50% of the people on Earth are born as women and these women are the best at hockey in the world. There is nothing hypocritical or pandery about them being shown off vs something like the BCHL lol

 

[Zen Arcade]

Low quality hockey just for the sake of getting women involved, give me a break. If it were 17 year old boys out there everyone would be asking 'why am I watching this?'

Some sort of junior showcase during All Star weekend would be great, actually.

Much like the women, the players would actually put in some effort because they're not taking the event for granted.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Do you think women's tennis to be low quality tennis also ?

I am always surprised seeing how so many use blatant strawman, expecting not to be called on that.

How's women tennis relevant in regards to the quality of women hockey?

 

[M88K]

I am always surprised seeing how so many use blatant strawman, expecting not to be called on that.

How's women tennis relevant in regards to the quality of women hockey?

Everyone is trying to equate being against women included as being mysogynistic. So if you're against them being included you must just hate women and all things women do. It's a tired trope but it's all they have

 

[Classicnamesup]

I thought it was fun and a change where players actually cared about winning at the All Star. When it comes to women's hockey, it's never going to be male hockey, first because of sheer physicality. Apart from equestrian (and yes it is a sport) no sport is played by male and females together on equal terms which doesn't invalidate female sports. Remember 'Battle of the Sexes' way back when arguably the best female tennis player of all time, Billie Jean King, barely beat a 55 year old former male player. Annika Sorenstam, again arguably one of the best female golf players of all time missed the cut in the one PGA competition she entered. And tennis and golf are sports that are not remotely as dependent on physical strength as hockey. Most talented girl players tend to play on male teams until puberty when they can't keep up physically, just like many boys who enter puberty late quit.

The second factor as regards skills is that not a fraction of resources are devoted to girls growing up as they do to boys. Boys can basically devote all their time to honing their skills while girls have problems getting ice time not to mention decent coaching, special camps etc. Just compare how much money parents are willing to devote to their sons playing hockey to their daughters, and what competition/cup/team opportunities there are for girls.

Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby are marvels on ice. But how much worse would they be if they were forced to have second job while playing pro? As well as little or no acess to support staff, medical care, nutritionists, etc, etc, etc. Crosby would probably not have played any longer because of his concussion/neck problems unless the Pens paid for specialists to examine him which didn't exactly come cheap and that cost alone would in all probability pay for a team of pro female hockey players.

I have not seen one female hockey player demand/ask for comparative salaries, what they do want is a salary they can survive on without a second job. You want more skilled female hockey players? Give girls access to equal resources growing up.

And ftr female hockey players are going against the stream and want more hitting in their game although so far the powers that be have refused to change the rules. Oh, and rather amusing, in this year's SDHL (womens equivalence to SHL) there have been a lot of hits, as well as a few fights ending in suspensions. For those who find such things equal 'real' hockey.

Can you explain to me why they are entitled to this? What makes them so special that they should be able to demand whatever salary they want for doing a job they chose? I wish I could make a livable salary sleeping in all week but the market doesn't value that apparently. Care to subsidize it for me?

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

That’s only 30 years. It took forever for men’s leagues to get themselves established before we got the NHL, and that was in a different time with more hospitable conditions (not having to compete with the behemoth that is the NHL/NBA alone is noteworthy).

I think given enough time a women’s league could become profitable ENOUGH, and ultimately would lead to a more talented female hockey; perhaps even making it so some female players could crossover into the NHL. It could take a very long time, but like I said, men have had over 100 years to rise to the talent and financial behemoth they enjoy today.

Who is going to pay to watch it at a large enough scale to be profitable when there is a far better product readily available?

 

[mjlee]

Can you explain to me why they are entitled to this? What makes them so special that they should be able to demand whatever salary they want for doing a job they chose? I wish I could make a livable salary sleeping in all week but the market doesn't value that apparently. Care to subsidize it for me?

Because they are some of the planets best hockey players? And their 'demand' is not the whatever kind of salary they 'want' but one that they can actully live on, which they don't today so they are forced to have a non-hockey job and on top of that play pro hockey. So no, they are certainly not being subsidised but definitely earn their living. And yes they chose to play pro hockey even knowing that they can't make a living playing today for the sheer love of playing hockey.

Did you miss my point that part of the reason women are not as skilled as men and therefore not as entertaining is because of the lack of resources for girls growing up and ability to develop said skills. Women's hockey is developing as more girls start playing. It's still in its infancy regarding viewer interest and appeal and it will take years if not decades to develop to the point that it's sustainable financially and with salaries that attract the female Sidney Crosby or Connor McDavid.

 

[Byrddog]

It was the best part of the night other than Al McGinnis slapping a puck over 100 at his age. The remainder was a borefest. Did like McDavid getting beat too.

 

[Trap Jesus]

It was the best part of the night other than Al McGinnis slapping a puck over 100 at his age. The remainder was a borefest. Did like McDavid getting beat too.

Please don't tell me you fell for him coming out and tying his exact 100.4 shot from 1998 that they referenced before him shooting.