A positive thread about the ASG women's 3 on 3 match

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by Necrobutcher, Jan 24, 2020.

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  1. Claypool

    Claypool Registered User

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    I'm not saying they should. I'm saying that there's all this talk about the failing state of women's professional hockey and how something must be do to save it. In reality nobody watches it, even the people on this very forum who claim they would.
     
  2. RandV

    RandV It's a wolf v2.0

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    I think you have to be pretty dense here to focus on the level of competition vs seeing that these are the best women in the world, with women representing half the population, and it's simply a marketing opportunity. Level of competition plays second fiddle to that.

    And for the level of competition I think every needs to keep in mind, and this goes both ways, the matter of personal perception. Yes it's been long established that the best women's teams are at the level of top 16 year old boys (or however that goes). But how many NHL fans regularly watch bantam? How many can perceive a difference the skill level at each step up the ladder all the way to the NHL. For many fans yes they do watch lower levels, and yes they can perceive the difference. But there will also be fans who only watch the NHL and aren't as astute on the gaps in ability at different levels.

    So end result is you get people who say that was painful to watch and people who say it was highly entertaining, they're both right it's just a matter of perception. In my opinion though no matter which way you spin it while a professional women's league is a tough sell as the NHL all-star game is just a fun exhibition that no one takes seriously I'd say a women's 3 on 3 game here specifically is a great idea for the event. Not like people don't endlessly complain about the all-star game already.
     
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  3. Boqvy wan Kenobi

    Boqvy wan Kenobi Jedi Master

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    If the NHL is serious about the "Hockey is for everyone" campaign, they should bite the bullet and subsidize an 8 team women's league with 4 teams in each country.

    I don't think that these ladies want to get paid anywhere close to what the guys get paid, but I do think they want to get paid enough to not have to get another job. What's reasonable? Something like (edited) 75-90% of an average AHL salary. I think they deserve to be paid a salary that supports a comfortable lifestyle.

    They can do other things like be an ambassador for hockey, make appearances as guest analysts during the playoffs, run camps for elite teenage girls, etc, that makes up for the losses that the NHL endures, and maybe there can be bonuses for doing some of these things above and beyond.

    About the quality of play, I mean it's at least 2 steps below the CHL, and that might be generous.

    With changing attitudes in the under 40 age group, maybe instead of going to an AHL, CHL or USHL game, parents would take their daughters to an occasional NWHL game. Women's pro sports probably make more money now and will in the future than ever, but idk if they'd ever be profitable in a pure business sense. But as long as the NHL is ok subsidizing it, it's fine. It's probably a good long-term strategy. The NBA realized this 25 years ago.

    In my neck of the woods, there are more women that like to watch hockey than basketball but I live in the greater Chicago area and the Blackhawks recent success has a lot to do with that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  4. M88K

    M88K Registered User

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    Ahh yes, All those little girls can tune into watch their favorite female hockey players play for.... Which NHL team again?
    It's not a marketing opportunity, literally none of those women could play on an NHL roster, even if they took out hitting completely to accommodate them.
    It's not a perception, womens national teams routinely scrimmage against AAA teams (with no hitting) and lose. I mean you can see the difference too.
    Who cares that they're the best women in the world? Little girls, sure maybe, wouldn't it be nice if those girls could watch the best women in the world in a Womens hockey league.
    Oh wait there is one, but the "best women" don't want to play in it because have inflated egos about their limited talents and want more money to showcase it to an empty arena 24 times a year.




    So pay them more than most players make in the AHL, playing almost 80 games a year,make, to play in about a 1/4th of the games? All the while the talent level is the same as high-school aged boys?

    The ECHL (again much much higher level of play) has a minimum of $470 a week for rookies and 510 for returning player, and again they play 72games a year as well.
    There's (being generous) 35 weeks in an ECHL Season
    That's 17.5k a year for an ECHL player.
    The women, who boycott their own short schedule league, would make 5-7k currently, which is fair for how little interest there is
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  5. EdJovanovski

    EdJovanovski Registered User

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    And I want to get paid for playing hockey too, regardless of whether enough people want to voluntarily pay money to watch me I should be entitled to the salary of lawyer or doctor. Give me a break. Stuff like this is why people think this whole thing is ridiculous.
     
  6. Boqvy wan Kenobi

    Boqvy wan Kenobi Jedi Master

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    Yeah, but being a pro athlete is different from other jobs. It's not equivalent in any way. Only the top 20% last more than 5 years. Only the best of the best would be in the league more than 10 years. It's not life changing money.

    Without bringing politics into this, those women are underpaid and so are you, me, and 99% of posters on this site.

    It's not about being greedy or unreasonable, it's about dignity of work.
     
  7. M88K

    M88K Registered User

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    What is your logic for this?

    They can make 5-7k for 24games currently. ($208-291 per game)
    a Higher level league (ECHL) can make roughly 15k for 72games ($208 per game)
    the AHL(much much much higher level) average salary is around 70k (for 77games) ($909 a game)

    They are right were they should be currently, they've just been hearing how great they are and think they're worth NHL player money.


    There are other factors like insurance to consider as well, so even in the ECHL they're maybe slight
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  8. Boqvy wan Kenobi

    Boqvy wan Kenobi Jedi Master

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    My personal philosophy that all work is valuable and people have the right to a dignified life, no matter what profession they choose.

    I don't subscribe to conventional economic theory.

    Those guys are underpaid too. Any athlete with a brain knows they can't do it forever.
     
  9. M88K

    M88K Registered User

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    You do realize most of these women are both college educated and hold degrees right? You also do realize that nobody put a gun to their head and told them to play hockey and they can do nothing else right?
    They want money that doesn't exist, and they want more than they are worth.
    You can feel how you want, but they don't deserve to be gifted money just because they feel they worth more than they are.
    If the world worked that way, literally everyone would be billionaires and work at home doing nothing all day.
     
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  10. Boqvy wan Kenobi

    Boqvy wan Kenobi Jedi Master

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    Yes, I realize that. This isn't about money, profitability or anything like that. It's about growing hockey and what's best for the sport.

    I think it's fair for the pro women's players to make a bit less than AHLers. I didn't know that AHL players averaged around 70k when I threw out those numbers. (I thought that AHLers made ~ 300k) So knock off 10-15% and that's fair. Enough to not have to have another job, but not ridiculous or insulting to others either.

    Like I said earlier, I don't subscribe to conventional economic theory. Mostly because it grossly misunderstands human nature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  11. M88K

    M88K Registered User

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    You do realize they play 24games too right? and that is the current high water mark, it was only 16 previously.
    Why is it fair for them to make a bit less? depending on your definition of a "bit". Just because they're women? play over 3x fewer games to make just "a bit" less.
    You can't actually think the "best" women players are a comparable skill level to the AHL. I'd hope not anyway
     
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  12. Boqvy wan Kenobi

    Boqvy wan Kenobi Jedi Master

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    Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head and makes anyone do anything in either the USA or Canada. Most people can do a bunch of different jobs well enough to hold it. They only do what they do because either they enjoy it, they're good at it, or they're good enough at it that it pays the bills.


    The economics change when they get subsidized by the NHL, USA hockey and Hockey Canada. Suddenly they play 50 games and have other job duties in their contracts like I described in earlier posts (running kids camps and other hockey ambassador type stuff) I think a fair difference is 10-25% less than an AHLer, and that's WITH a subsidy. I already said that a pro women's league isn't viable without a subsidy.


    The WNBA bleeds money but it's been around for 25 years. It's subsidized by the NBA and so are their players salaries. They make enough to live off of, just like an average person. I don't think that's unreasonable and an insane ask. It's just good business.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
  13. The Lemonheads

    The Lemonheads Peanut Gallery

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    It's better than whatever people were doing shooting plastic pucks from the crowd at tents.

    Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus.
     
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  14. dynasty3

    dynasty3 Registered User

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    Do you feel the same way about the various players on countries who have sledge hockey teams then? I mean they too are the elite in their sport of sledge hockey, just like the women are the elite for the female genre of hockey. They work as hard as the women and other athletes. Should they also have a pro sledge league which will allow them to have a livable salary knowing full well there is low ticket buying demand for their sport just like the women’s game?

    Sports is a business, not a social movement. No one forced anyone of these people to choose a living with a limited salary. No different than if a student pursues to go to school for coal mining and then when he comes out he not only wants better working conditions but higher pay, despite a demand which is low for said career.

    Sure it would suck to have to tell my daughter the chance of playing pro hockey and making a living is slim. Therefore she may have to choose a different career, but that’s life. Best she can do is continue to play Hockey and get a scholarship to a school and that’s pretty much it. Truth and reality.
     
  15. BruinLVGA

    BruinLVGA My SigSauer's: M17, P220 Legion, and P365 MS!

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    You can get all the exposure you want, but if the product is mediocre, it ain't gonna sell.
     
  16. ThirdManIn

    ThirdManIn Aspiring Sinecure

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    Um, sir, this is a positive thread.
     
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  17. Imnotagoodposter

    Imnotagoodposter Registered User

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    We can’t have positivity on HFBoards
     
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  18. Avelanche

    Avelanche #freeRedmond

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    US and Canada Olympic teams are midget AAA under 18 level. That’s typically who they scrim. Women college teams are the ones that get beat up by 16-17 year olds.
     
  19. ThirdManIn

    ThirdManIn Aspiring Sinecure

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    Exactly what negativity is coming from a thread trying to look at a sporting event positively aside from the forced negativity you curmudgeonous opponents have to bring in order to feel paid attention to? If you can't be positive, if you think the positivity is forced, why even come in here? Why do you folks have such a burning need to try to force everyone else to agree with your negative takes?
     
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  20. mja

    mja Underachiever

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    I will never be able to understand men getting their panties in a bunch over women's sports. The only men who gets their backs up over this are old men yelling at clouds, incels, or insecure manly men compensating for something. No, it's not the NHL, AHL or CHL. Who the f*** cares? Just watch it. Or don't.
     
  21. Mr Jiggyfly

    Mr Jiggyfly Registered User

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    Figured I would open this thread and see a bunch of insecure guys whining because these women are better at hockey than them.

    Wish I had been wrong, but so predictable.

    Anyway, popped in to say Jocelyn Lamoureux-Davidson is my favorite player to watch in women’s hockey and she didn’t disappoint last night.

    She’s shifty as hell and a beautiful skater, hard not to notice her when she has the puck.
     
  22. AfroThunder396

    AfroThunder396 [citation needed]

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    The hockey being played in women's leagues, along with juniors and NCAA, is a far more entertaining product than what the NHL is producing.

    The NHL owns your childhood - the logos, the Cup, the legendary players you grew up watching. They have the big names. NHL is a fantastic brand. But the best on-ice product is happening elsewhere.
     
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  23. ovythegiraffe

    ovythegiraffe Registered User

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    Thought it was the most enjoyable event of the night. Was an actual game and had it's exciting moments, unlike the men's games that I can't even be bothered to watch anymore. USA vs Canada was a nice touch, gave some emotion to the game.

    Maybe they could modify the all-star games to a mini world cup. 8 teams, 7 best scoring countries + best of the rest. 5 players + goalie for each team. Quarterfinals and semis 10 min games and finals 20. Maybe it would be a more fun event for the players and we'd see a better participation rate, as well as more exciting games
     
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  24. LudwigVonKarlsson

    LudwigVonKarlsson #MelnykOut

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    It was probably the best part of this event to be honest.
     
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  25. Monsieur Patate

    Monsieur Patate Rebuilding since '93

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    The beginning of something is better than nothing. But like women's tennis or golf, its not impossible that someday it catches an audience.
     
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