Post-Game Talk: A new curse begins...

bobbythebrain

Registered User
Jul 30, 2016
13,584
12,951
I think Nuge might be playing hurt. Not hurt enough to sit out, but enough to have it affect his play. He's struggled a lot lately and those things usually appear more explicit on the good players. I remember when Drai was going through his down time, and he was likely banged up as well.

Nah he's not hurt. He just hasn't improved his play.

Carrying it over the blueline he still resorts to shooting or fails to make a lateral pass.

He still gets out worked on the boards. His behind the back pass on the pp is far too predictable and a lazy default to what's actually happening.

In all honesty, you can predict what Nuge is gonna do 90% of the time.

He's not hurt. He's just complacent
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,416
21,239
Where were posts like this when Hall was traded? I remember here that 80% of the posts were scornful and that bought into the false narrative scripted by the Oilers that hall had pulled the Chute and that there were issues with the player. Cancer was even suggested.

I value players that ARE valuable. Not those that are irrelevant anytime in the big moments. Just look at Nuge playoff stats the one year. when is he ever contributing in important moments?
You mean the two series he's played in 8 years? 11 games? What a huge sample to pull any sort of conclusions from. When has this team had any important moments since Nuge was drafted? It's all bullshit man. This kid has known nothing but losing for 7 of 8 years. Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle. All they ever knew was losing in their entire tenures. And just like Nuge they were somehow expected to just figure it all out and guide the whole franchise into a winning atmosphere.

RNH is one of about 4 players that should be exempt from this pathetic fan scorn. But that's typical of Edmonton it seems. Somehow it's always the guys who do anything for the team that get piled on and run out of town. Nevermind the fact that outside of RNH Drai and McD there's literally nobody who can score. Dumping on Nuge to me is the fan equivalent of OBC operations. He doesn't need to be the guy that makes it all happen. They need him to be a guy that can out up 50-60 points and play some two way hockey. He can clearly do that. Like Darnell Nurse he has some moments, but he's part of the solution. The problem is the lack of talent anywhere outside of their big three.
 
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TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
37,166
42,597
You might have forgotten to put Sekera into that last stat.

Why? He wasn't around during Hitch's first winning streak.

Hey remember when you'd try to attack posters who thought maybe the team and Kosko would look decent again like they did when Hitch first got here, once the Defence is back to healthy? How's that working out for you?
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,171
56,808
Canuck hunting
You mean the two series he's played in 8 years? 11 games? What a huge sample to pull any sort of conclusions from. When has this team had any important moments since Nuge was drafted? It's all bull**** man. This kid has known nothing but losing for 7 of 8 years. Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle. All they ever knew was losing in their entire tenures. And just like Nuge they were somehow expected to just figure it all out and guide the whole franchise into a winning atmosphere.

RNH is one of about 4 players that should be exempt from this pathetic fan scorn. But that's typical of Edmonton it seems. Somehow it's always the guys who do anything for the team that get piled on and run out of town. Nevermind the fact that outside of RNH Drai and McD there's literally nobody who can score. Dumping on Nuge to me is the fan equivalent of OBC operations.

Sure boss. Nuge hasn't improved one iota in 8 seasons of play. In that time around 15 players from his draft class have become better players than him. I never made the Hall trade, and never would. That one is irretrievable, and irreplaceable. But on a team that already has McD and Drai as Centers Nuge's specific role for 6M is pretty negligible and he's not well suited in anyway to even complementing what we have.

This is Nuge making other players better. Only one assist, a 2nd assist, lol, which was on the PP, in his last 17GP. He plays every game with god like stars on first unit PP and down the stretch has one 2nd assist in 17games. Is that a short sample as well?

When does Nuge ever make a difference when the team is in a race or playing important games? In the crunch, any crunch, he's a vanilla player that gets bent over.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,456
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Why? He wasn't around during Hitch's first winning streak.

Hey remember when you'd try to attack posters who thought maybe the team and Kosko would look decent again like they did when Hitch first got here, once the Defence is back to healthy? How's that working out for you?
And my favourite stalker is back.
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,416
21,239
Sure boss. Nuge hasn't improved one iota in 8 seasons of play. In that time around 15 players from his draft class have become better players than him. I never made the Hall trade, and never would. That one is irretrievable, and irreplaceable. But on a team that already has McD and Drai as Centers Nuge's specific role for 6M is pretty negligible and he's not well suited in anyway to even complementing what we have.

This is Nuge making other players better. Only one assist, a 2nd assist, lol, which was on the PP, in his last 17GP. He plays every game with god like stars on first unit PP and down the stretch has one 2nd assist in 17games. Is that a short sample as well?

When does Nuge ever make a difference when the team is in a race or playing important games? In the crunch, any crunch, he's a vanilla player that gets bent over.
You keep talking like for 8 seasons whenever the team has been in the hunt or the playoffs that he disappears.

They haven't been in a goddamn race or any meaningful games past December for 7 of his 8 years here.

For 15 years the Oilers seem to have two or three really good young players and a whole bunch of shit around them, making the team on a whole really bad. Instead of keeping those good young guys and getting rid of the trash, they get rid of the good young players and maintain the trash. Trading away RNH or Nurse is just much of the same head scratching incompetence, but suddenly these seem to be the two guys a chunk of fans want to move.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,456
21,897
Nah he's not hurt. He just hasn't improved his play.

Carrying it over the blueline he still resorts to shooting or fails to make a lateral pass.

He still gets out worked on the boards. His behind the back pass on the pp is far too predictable and a lazy default to what's actually happening.

In all honesty, you can predict what Nuge is gonna do 90% of the time.

He's not hurt. He's just complacent
I said he "might" be hurt. You say he isn't. But neither of us know for sure.
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
37,166
42,597
And my favourite stalker is back.

Difference between my "stalking" and yours is, I actually saw your post, saw that you were posting, and replied. You called me out when I hadn't posted in like 2 days. Bigger difference, I was right and you were wrong lol.
 

RegDunlop

Registered User
Nov 5, 2016
3,409
3,346
Edmonton
I would move any of those guys in your move list, as long as we're not giving up assets to do it, We've done more than enough of that this past season. Chia has us in the unenviable position of having to wait out some contracts.

Cave is a surprising keeper. You think he has enough scoring moxie to help out on the bottom six? We should be able to find some guy that skates and works just as hard but can chip in now and then.

My thoughts are that we cannot go into next season with...

An unproductive, continually deteriorating Lucic. Caveat being that the new coach plays him only if he can be a contributing bottom 6 player.
Colby Cave - to this point - has shown me intelligence, skating ability, and most of all - ambition and tenacity. A seriously lacking ingredient here. I think he's still young enough to be crafted into a 2 way 3rd line center if Nuge is traded or played as a winger. He looks to me as being capable of some offence at least and at a good price point. Just think others should be upgraded before him.
The rest we need to improve on, or their individual games need to. I am attached emotionally as lots of us fans are, but we are simply inferior in so many aspects to other teams.
Saying this, I dont know how they can accomplish this!
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,171
56,808
Canuck hunting
Nah he's not hurt. He just hasn't improved his play.

Carrying it over the blueline he still resorts to shooting or fails to make a lateral pass.

He still gets out worked on the boards. His behind the back pass on the pp is far too predictable and a lazy default to what's actually happening.

In all honesty, you can predict what Nuge is gonna do 90% of the time.

He's not hurt. He's just complacent

We're seeing the same things. He just lacks any jump, is pedestrian out there, seemingly bored, and just going through the motions the remainder of the season.

His predictable play is also an indictment. Its like in game film somebody told him to make a disguise pass to the point once in awhile so now he does it all the time. Its almost 50-50 now what Nuge will do with the puck. No look pass back, dump puck behind boards, or muff a shot on net for a whistle. On the PP..

RNH has been vastly outplayed by even Zach Kassian down the stretch. That should be indicative on how little extra compete he's prepared to give.

Pat Maroon had better Stats with the kind of assignment Nuge is getting.
 

TB12

Registered User
Apr 5, 2015
3,626
12,035
Same thing in every PGT from Rep:

-pump Drai’s tires
-poop on RNH

It’s getting old man, get a new shtick. I miss 2016-17 for a couple of reasons...
 
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Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,456
21,897
Difference between my "stalking" and yours is, I actually saw your post, saw that you were posting, and replied. You called me out when I hadn't posted in like 2 days. Bigger difference, I was right and you were wrong lol.
Ummm....no, you're stalking.
 

bobbythebrain

Registered User
Jul 30, 2016
13,584
12,951
I said he "might" be hurt. You say he isn't. But neither of us know for sure.

No we don't. But like I said, I can actually predict his play 90% of the time. His game is about as predictable as Nurse carrying the puck down low. You just know you can count on it being turned over by him forcing a pass from the corner.



If he was hurt, he would be less predictable...no?
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
37,166
42,597
Ummm....no, you're stalking.

I'm just interested in your very accurate analysis that Koskinen is a really bad goalie and this team with a healthy D in front of him, wouldn't help him at all. Do break down this amazing theory of yours again for us all.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,171
56,808
Canuck hunting
You keep talking like for 8 seasons whenever the team has been in the hunt or the playoffs that he disappears.

They haven't been in a goddamn race or any meaningful games past December for 7 of his 8 years here.

For 15 years the Oilers seem to have two or three really good young players and a whole bunch of **** around them, making the team on a whole really bad. Instead of keeping those good young guys and getting rid of the trash, they get rid of the good young players and maintain the trash. Trading away RNH or Nurse is just much of the same head scratching incompetence, but suddenly these seem to be the two guys a chunk of fans want to move.

Herein lies the contrast. I'm a huge supporter of Darnell Nurse. But I support any player showing dedication, and a desire to improve and be the best they can be, which Nuge has never shown. Nuge is 26 in two weeks, and this is what he is, as good as it gets. I'm not saying deal him for poor return. But this is definitely as good as his value ever gets in trade.

Nuge is not a young player anymore. That's part of the point. He's an 8year vet playing a game that is almost impossible to distinguish from his rookie season. He isn't that much better at any facet of play.

Last night he's got several minutes of first unit PP, and on 3rd line, and he manages to be minus in the game, deserved, on a play where he jumped gun right off a faceoff instead of providing numbers back AND coasted all the way back in cruise control.
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
4,947
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You keep talking like for 8 seasons whenever the team has been in the hunt or the playoffs that he disappears.

They haven't been in a goddamn race or any meaningful games past December for 7 of his 8 years here.
He wears an ‘A’ and is therefore expected to lead. Where is that leadership? What has he ever lead us to? Lottery picks? 1 assist in 17 games. Is that acceptable to you? Apparently it is. 4 assists in 13 playoff games? It’s obvious when the games matter most he disappears. The facts are all there you can choose to ignore them all you want.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,456
21,897
We're seeing the same things. He just lacks any jump, is pedestrian out there, seemingly bored, and just going through the motions the remainder of the season.

His predictable play is also an indictment. Its like in game film somebody told him to make a disguise pass to the point once in awhile so now he does it all the time. Its almost 50-50 now what Nuge will do with the puck. No look pass back, dump puck behind boards, or muff a shot on net for a whistle. On the PP..

RNH has been vastly outplayed by even Zach Kassian down the stretch. That should be indicative on how little extra compete he's prepared to give.

Pat Maroon had better Stats with the kind of assignment Nuge is getting.
If those things you say are true , then I would chalk it up to simply being beaten down by the incompetence if this organization, year after year after year. And if that is the point, he needs to be moved for the betterment of both himself and the team. Who knows, we may see that from Drai or McDavid down the road if this trend continues. Athletes at this level are mentally tough, but years of losing can wear a man down.
 

RegDunlop

Registered User
Nov 5, 2016
3,409
3,346
Edmonton
@GOilers88
@Drivesaitl

I see and agree with both your arguments on this player.

I've been a huge fan, but he really hasn't progressed like i thought he would, as others are pointing out. I remember in his first uear that he was very effective as qb on PP and had pin point passing and intelligence. I see that player very little now.
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,416
21,239
He wears an ‘A’ and is therefore expected to lead. Where is that leadership? What has he ever lead us to? Lottery picks? 1 assist in 17 games. Is that acceptable to you? Apparently it is. 4 assists in 13 playoff games? It’s obvious when the games matter most he disappears. The facts are all there you can choose to ignore them all you want.
Lucic has an A as well. Maybe it's not the players fault for being stapled with the letters? Like Ference being handed the C without ever being a part of the franchise? Take the A off his jersey. Lots of players have had letters removed or switched. Even McDavid shouldn't have been given the C right away. That's indicative of the same incompetence that's permeated for almost two decades now, not some underlying problems with Nuge. Let him focus on playing hockey without having to be the guy who has known almost nothing but losing and being expected to show all the young guys how to be winners. This is where you get rid of the trash, keep the good young players, and bring in actual hockey players who CAN lead through experience. Not dumping another good young player while keeping more crap.

58 points on the season. 1 in 17 games. Dare we make the conclusion that players go through slumps? f***ing groundbreaking man. Patrik Laine had 18 goals in November then like 2 in the next month and a half? Is that acceptable to you? Or are players allowed to go through hot and cold streaks wherein you assess the entire body of work (that being the whole season, not 17 games). I see a guy who has put up 371 points over 528 games playing on some truly dreadful teams for years before McDavid came along.
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,171
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Canuck hunting
He wears an ‘A’ and is therefore expected to lead. Where is that leadership? What has he ever lead us to? Lottery picks? 1 assist in 17 games. Is that acceptable to you? Apparently it is. 4 assists in 13 playoff games? It’s obvious when the games matter most he disappears. The facts are all there you can choose to ignore them all you want.

In a huge game last night these are the forwards that showed more effort and hustle than Nuge last night;

McD
Drai
Kass
Lucic (surprise)
Gagner
Currie (prevented a goal against, also hit a post)
Gambardelli (was more noticeable trying to create in limited minutes)
Cave (at least got a good scoring chance and worked for that.

On this night Nuge's effort was more comparable to the worst Oilers last night, inline with Khaira, and Rieder.

This is the kind of leadership Nuge is showing. Being invisible.

its funny but in Arizona or Vegas if you told any new fans to the game that Nuge was a first pick they would be hard pressed to figure out why, or how.
 

Stoneman89

Registered User
Feb 8, 2008
27,456
21,897
I'm just interested in your very accurate analysis that Koskinen is a really bad goalie and this team with a healthy D in front of him, wouldn't help him at all. Do break down this amazing theory of yours again for us all.
You clearly have difficulty reading. I'll say it very slowly for you for the umpteenth time. The main issue I had, was that the contract offer could have waited much later, and would have given management a better assessment of what they had and produced a potentially more accurate offer. I have never wavered from that. Are you somehow able to comprehend that?
 
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Drivesaitl

Finding Hyman
Oct 8, 2017
46,171
56,808
Canuck hunting
If those things you say are true , then I would chalk it up to simply being beaten down by the incompetence if this organization, year after year after year. And if that is the point, he needs to be moved for the betterment of both himself and the team. Who knows, we may see that from Drai or McDavid down the road if this trend continues. Athletes at this level are mentally tough, but years of losing can wear a man down.

I don't doubt its effects. Gagner, Hall, Eberle, Nuge at some point or other were probably beacons of positivity. This org could clinically depress Gene Principe, although somehow he's resistant..;)

The disappointing thing however is how even when the team did have a very positive moment, in the playoffs, both Eberle and Nuge had disappointing seasons and playoffs that season. It was hard to understand. It was as if they were not part of it. I did suspect that when Hall was traded that it would impact Eberle and Nuge in different ways. This is just theory obviously but I think it was one of those moments where you recognize that a time has passed. Nuge and Eberle were part of that chapter and it already passed.
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
4,947
5,031
Lucic has an A as well. Maybe it's not the players fault for being stapled with the letters? Like Ference being handed the C without ever being a part of the franchise? Take the A off his jersey. Lots of players have had letters removed or switched. Even McDavid shouldn't have been given the C right away. That's indicative of the same incompetence that's permeated for almost two decades now, not some underlying problems with Nuge. Let him focus on playing hockey without having to be the guy who has known almost nothing but losing and being expected to show all the young guys how to be winners. This is where you get rid of the trash, keep the good young players, and bring in actual hockey players who CAN lead through experience.
I’d love to see him stripped of his ‘A’. Would he show any passion or urgency then? Unlikely, but it’s a start. He’s a perimeter player, scared to drive to the net, the problem with him being a perimeter player is that he too soft to win battles, gets knocked off the puck and would rather defer to his line mates, you know, guys like Khaira, that have 2 years experience and make 10x less. It’s not new and and beyond frustrating.
 

Messrules11

6 Cups, elbows up.
Nov 23, 2018
4,947
5,031
In a huge game last night these are the forwards that showed more effort and hustle than Nuge last night;

McD
Drai
Kass
Lucic (surprise)
Gagner
Currie (prevented a goal against, also hit a post)
Gambardelli (was more noticeable trying to create in limited minutes)
Cave (at least got a good scoring chance and worked for that.

On this night Nuge's effort was more comparable to the worst Oilers last night, inline with Khaira, and Rieder.

This is the kind of leadership Nuge is showing. Being invisible.

its funny but in Arizona or Vegas if you told any new fans to the game that Nuge was a first pick they would be hard pressed to figure out why, or how.
Absolutely. Gambardella looked better than Nuge by a mile, disgusting
 

GOilers88

#DustersWinCups
Dec 24, 2016
14,416
21,239
I’d love to see him stripped of his ‘A’. Would he show any passion or urgency then? Unlikely, but it’s a start. He’s a perimeter player, scared to drive to the net, the problem with him being a perimeter player is that he too soft to win battles, gets knocked off the puck and would rather defer to his line mates, you know, guys like Khaira, that have 2 years experience and make 10x less. It’s not new and and beyond frustrating.
Yeah. It's a shame that this roster doesn't have any proven wingers to play on the second third and fourth lines. Either RNH or Drai play with McD. Whichever one is left to play on the second line is playing with scrubs. Instead of running Nuge and his 58+ points out of town, how about they address the fact that Khaira and 0 goals Reider are playing on the second line with him? Nuge doesn't have to be like Taylor Hall to be effective. That's why it's a team game and that's why he has line mates. It's just a shame that most of their line mates play way over their heads.
 

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