Friedman: A lot of NHL executives are already calling Radko Gudas a future Leaf.

[Fonzieleaf]

I don’t follow Gudas closely, but would he be better than Polak?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

.
Sandin played in 2 of the final 4 regular season games. Did not play in the exhibition game, and did not play in any of the 5 playoff games. That is 2 out of the last 10 games.

Dubas (2015): "For us, it runs two-fold. We don't want our players going up to the Leafs before they're ready, and we don't want them shuttling up and down. We want players to be called up to the Leafs when they're young and on the first two years of their entry-level contracts ONLY when they prove that they can be a Leaf, all the time."

Bad development according to Dubas.

Sandin got worse over the course of his second stint on the team (going from very good and looking like someone who should be quickly moving into the top-4, to so bad that he was being healthy scratched in a game in which Muzzin, Rielly and Ceci were all injured) because they did not have a proper partner for Sandin and set him up to fail and lose confidence.

Bad development.

Everyone knew - including the player himself and the team - that Sandin needs to add size and strength to progress. With the shut down he had the perfect opportunity to devote 5 or 6 months to doing so. The only time he would have such a chance in his career. Instead he was told to stay in game shape so that he could suite up for the pre-game sake of one playoff game. Wasting 5 months of his time.

Inexcusable. Terrible development.

I don't see bad development, I see a rookie coach that nade some rookie coaching mistakes, one of which was playing Marincin over Sandin, also putting Nylander at center for game 5, but bad development? nah if he was being badly developed he wouldn't have played 28 games less than 2 years after being drafted, that doesn't happen for 29th overall picks.

Guys don't get rushed to the NHL in Toronto, they used to but not anymore.

 

[biotk]

nah if he was being badly developed he wouldn't have played 28 games less than 2 years after being drafted, that doesn't happen for 29th overall picks.

Guys don't get rushed to the NHL in Toronto, they used to but not anymore.

Those two statements are completely contradictory.

He did get rushed to the NHL. He shouldn't have been, but he was. Dubas has long said that Toronto was now a professional organization and no longer did those things, but then with Sandin they revered back to all their all bad habits.

Would you rather have a Sandin at the start of next season who is bigger, stronger and more ready to compete for a top-4 role? Or would you rather have a Sandin at the start of next season who is still being passed over for games by Marincin, and is most likely being sent to the AHL, because he is not strong or big enough to handle defensive assignments?

Because it should have been the former, but instead it will be the latter - because of terrible development.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I don’t follow Gudas closely, but would he be better than Polak?

Currently, slightly. He's basically polak from a few years ago. It's pretty common knowlege the leafs need more snarl in their game. I hope gudas is not the only answer to that, otherwise the leafs are in for a long season.

 

[StuckOutHere]

I certainly hope that this offseason isn't simply dump one of Johnsson/Kapanen, sign Gudas.....

With that said, people dunking on Holl over a few bad games need to shake their heads. His body of work over the season says more than a few bad games without Muzzin. No one on the Leafs would have performed well under those circumstances. He makes $2M a year, not $6M. For the Leafs to have a sniff they needed basically perfect health for the D, that didn't happen. If it would have been Rielly it would have been the same mismatch and we'd be throwing Sandin or Dermott or whomever under the bus.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

Currently, slightly. He's basically polak from a few years ago. It's pretty common knowlege the leafs need more snarl in their game. I hope gudas is not the only answer to that, otherwise the leafs are in for a long season.

Absolutely, hopefully he’s a small piece of the puzzle with more to come. I just hope that if we do end up getting him that he isn’t moved to the 2nd or 1st pairing based on a few games. He ain’t good enough for that at this point. See Holl for more details.

 

[Menzinger]

He'd give the 5-7 D on the team a skillet that they currently lack. Seems like a good fit at the right price

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He'd give the 5-7 D on the team a skillet that they currently lack. Seems like a good fit at the right price

But what's the right price?

 

[SI]

But what's the right price?

just under what Gudbranson got for 3 years -
2 or 3 years for 3 or 3.5

 

[Knies iT]

Currently, slightly. He's basically polak from a few years ago. It's pretty common knowlege the leafs need more snarl in their game. I hope gudas is not the only answer to that, otherwise the leafs are in for a long season.

Gudas is quite clearly better than Polak and it's more than "slightly". Polak has one season with 20+ points in 800ish games...Gudas has done that three times in half the career GP. Gudas can also play on cup caliber teams and be a contributor, unlike Polak who was completely embarrassed during SJ's run.

Polak is a replacement level, borderline depth NHL defensemen today. Gudas is still a #4-5 depending on how much you like him. He does basically everything better than Polak while playing a similar style.

Would welcome the addition at < 3 million per and short-medium term because his body will break down in his mid-30s.

 

[Fatass]

But what's the right price?

He’s coming off a 3.3 million dollar deal, and us only 30. Dubas is looking at 3.5 to 4 per depending on term. There will be a lot of teams in on Gudas, which will drive up his price. Just don’t see how the Leafs create cap room to sign these good D men from the UFA market.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He’s coming off a 3.3 million dollar deal, and us only 30. Dubas is looking at 3.5 to 4 per depending on term. There will be a lot of teams in on Gudas, which will drive up his price. Just don’t see how the Leafs create cap room to sign these good D men from the UFA market.

This is going to be a strange UFA season some guys are going to get squeezed because of the flat cap.

Dubas has said a couple times, the Leafs have mor3 space than people realize, I don't know where he got that but he's the GM he must know something

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Why? Physical, but offers nothing offensively - is his defense an upgrade for Toronto?

When will Toronto finally give Sandin and Liljegren their chance?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Why? Physical, but offers nothing offensively - is his defense an upgrade for Toronto?

Yes

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Yes

What about Sandin and Liljegren?

 

[Menzinger]

He’s coming off a 3.3 million dollar deal, and us only 30. Dubas is looking at 3.5 to 4 per depending on term. There will be a lot of teams in on Gudas, which will drive up his price. Just don’t see how the Leafs create cap room to sign these good D men from the UFA market.

This also isn't a normal off-season thougg. With Covid hanging over the heads of the league is likely going to surpress salaries during free agency - especially among non core guys.

 

[Knies iT]

What about Sandin and Liljegren?

They're 20 and 21? They'll be in the rotation with Lehtonen but they won't be gift wrapped a roster spot.

Both are NHL ready but there will be growing pains as young D and the Leafs need insurance if they don't translate seamlessly right away.

 

[Fatass]

This also isn't a normal off-season thougg. With Covid hanging over the heads of the league is likely going to surpress salaries during free agency - especially among non core guys.

Agreed, which will also reduce the trade value of this level of player too, right? Considering that, how do the Leafs create the cap room needed to sign Gudas for even 3 million? The guys Dubas wants to trade for no cap coming back, considering this cap era you mentioned, might not be able to be moved unless equal dollars are coming back.

 

[Fatass]

They're 20 and 21? They'll be in the rotation with Lehtonen but they won't be gift wrapped a roster spot.

Both are NHL ready but there will be growing pains as young D and the Leafs need insurance if they don't translate seamlessly right away.

Are these two young D tough, and hard to play against? If not, maybe it’s better to use them as sweetener in deals to clear cap room to sign tough, hard to play against guys like Gudas?

 

[Menzinger]

Agreed, which will also reduce the trade value of this level of player too, right? Considering that, how do the Leafs create the cap room needed to sign Gudas for even 3 million? The guys Dubas wants to trade for no cap coming back, considering this cap era you mentioned, might not be able to be moved unless equal dollars are coming back.

Most of the Leafs players have salaries well under their cap hits.

Andreas Johnsson, Kerfoot, Kapanen for example all only earn about 1 million this year. Could be attractive options for teams looking to save dollars

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Why? Physical, but offers nothing offensively - is his defense an upgrade for Toronto?

When will Toronto finally give Sandin and Liljegren their chance?

Did you just ask if Radko Gudas is an upgrade on Cody Ceci and Justin Holl?

 

[biotk]

Why? Physical, but offers nothing offensively - is his defense an upgrade for Toronto?

When will Toronto finally give Sandin and Liljegren their chance?

Like all talented, but small, young D, Sandin and Liljegren can't really be given a chance until the Leafs have an appropriate partner to play them with.

Example of an appropriate partner:
Gudas

Examples of inappropriate partners:
Tyson Barrie
Having Sandin and Liljegren play together.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

What about Sandin and Liljegren?

Sandin is LD so Gudas wouldn't take his spot since Gidas is a RD Sandin has probably taken Dermott"s spot.

The Leafs RD needs A LOT of work.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Are these two young D tough, and hard to play against? If not, maybe it’s better to use them as sweetener in deals to clear cap room to sign tough, hard to play against guys like Gudas?

[MOD] Sandin is not a guy ou use as a sweetener, of Sandin was to be moved, and he won't be, but if he was he is moved in a blockbuster to get a big piece he is a top top prospect.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

Gudas is quite clearly better than Polak and it's more than "slightly". Polak has one season with 20+ points in 800ish games...Gudas has done that three times in half the career GP. Gudas can also play on cup caliber teams and be a contributor, unlike Polak who was completely embarrassed during SJ's run.

Polak is a replacement level, borderline depth NHL defensemen today. Gudas is still a #4-5 depending on how much you like him. He does basically everything better than Polak while playing a similar style.

Would welcome the addition at < 3 million per and short-medium term because his body will break down in his mid-30s.

I should have phrased it better. Gudas today is what polak was 3-4 seasons ago. Both play with snarl, both aren't fleet of foot, both aren't the best defensively, and don't count on them to put up points. They have alot of parallels with polak just being older and more broken down currently. I'd also be fearful if either player was higher than a third pairing d playing 14 minutes a game.